Fruitless, but Gifted by the Holy Spirit?

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Jun 30, 2011
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#1
"Just pray this prayer after me" this happened 10 years ago in Awana - but my life hasn't changed, I don't bear any fruit of salvation

"I got up and spoke in tongues, baptized in the Holy Ghost" 10 years ago in church - but my life hasn't changed, I don't bear any fruit of salvation


Matthew 7:21-23, 16
[SUP]
21 [/SUP]“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. [SUP]22 [/SUP]On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ [SUP]23 [/SUP]And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’


You can say all this "in Jesus Name" or "I will just lay two fingers on you, because that's all it takes for me to lay hands on you and the Holy Spirit will hit you like a freight train" all you want, and not be saved

At what cost? Therefore knowing the terror of the Lord, we convince men in Churches - be reconciled to God

[SUP]16 [/SUP]You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?

Gifts are nice, but heart change, and Bearing fruit of the Spirit, and being like Jesus Christ is where the Joy is, where the salvation is. Oh to be free from myself, is like a drop of water to a man in the dessert. I watched a video someone posted, and count how many times he boasted in himself.


[SUP]24 [/SUP]“Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. [SUP]25 [/SUP]And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. [SUP]26 [/SUP]And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. [SUP]27 [/SUP]And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it.”

Both men building, both men going to church, carrying their Bible, but only one has his foundation on Jesus. Those two who were speaking in tongues in church before they were fired from their jobs, one walked away, while the other was found on the foundation of Jesus Christ, the other was not.

Yes there are Gifts of the Spirit, but they are not proofs of salvation, fruit of the Spirit are the proofs of salvation

1 John 5
1
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome. 4 For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. 5 Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
 
Feb 21, 2012
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#2
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. (Galatians 5:22-24)

It takes time to develop the qualities that are a result of being born again of the Spirit. We have to walk in that newness of life and it does not happen automatically. It is a daily walk of putting off the old man and putting on the new man which is renewed in knowledge through Christ. We die daily . . . . endeavoring to walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh. It is a continual walk - we daily forget the past and reach forth to the things which are before, we press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus (Phil. 3:13,14). We run in a race keeping our bodies under subjection (1 Cor. 9:24-27) running with patience laying aside every weight and sin, looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith (Heb. 12:1,2).

God bless us all as we continue to walk the walk. :)
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,710
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#3
Abideing in Jesus seemed to be missing...

John 15:1-8 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#4
True and you will know a tree by the fruit that it bears....Last time I checked Jesus cursed the tree that had no fruit on it and it died immediately!
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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#5
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit. Nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Only the tree transformed by Christ can bear good fruit. The tree of a corrupt nature can only bear corrupt fruit.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Jun 30, 2011
2,521
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#6
Abideing in Jesus seemed to be missing...

John 15:1-8 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

Oh - extend to vs 11

To know Christ is to Love Christ
to Love Christ is to obey Christ
to obey Christ is to abide in Christ
to abide in Christ is to bear fruit in Christ
to bear fruit in Christ is to Joy in Christ
 
Aug 15, 2009
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#7
No one can have any real gifts or baptism in the Spirit without salvation first. I'm surprised that hasn't been mentioned yet. Anything similar thing experienced before salvation is not of God.

That's not to say something can't be felt, because Satan's imitations can.
 
Jun 30, 2011
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#8
No one can have any real gifts or baptism in the Spirit without salvation first. I'm surprised that hasn't been mentioned yet. Anything similar thing experienced before salvation is not of God.

That's not to say something can't be felt, because Satan's imitations can.

Probably because your baptized with the Spirit upon salvation - the whole term born again- is based off that - gifts can be faked by unbelievers - fruit however cannot
 
Jan 6, 2014
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#9
"And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I AM NOTHING." 1 Corinthians 13:2
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
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#10
...because your baptized with the Spirit upon salvation...
Unfortunately you're mistaken, being born again by the Holy Spirit and being baptised in the Holy Spirit are 2 separate acts of God the Holy Spirit, the baptism in the Holy Spirit taking place AFTER regeneration by the Holy Spirit!

The apostles were born again before the Day of Pentecost and had the Holy Spirit WITH them, (hence giving them the power to do signs, wonder and miracles to confirm the Gospel. Matt 10v7,8). They were clean (John 13v10) and rejoicing in their salvation before the Day of Pentecost (Luke 24v52,53), having the Holy Spirit with them. (John 14v17). The Holy Spirit, Who was WITH them, then entered them on the Day of Penteost; the evidence of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit was that they exercised the gift of tongues! Acts 1v5,8, 2v4.

Yahweh Shalom...
 

GregoryC

Senior Member
Feb 5, 2014
361
7
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#11
Unfortunately you're mistaken, being born again by the Holy Spirit and being baptised in the Holy Spirit are 2 separate acts of God the Holy Spirit, the baptism in the Holy Spirit taking place AFTER regeneration by the Holy Spirit!

The apostles were born again before the Day of Pentecost and had the Holy Spirit WITH them, (hence giving them the power to do signs, wonder and miracles to confirm the Gospel. Matt 10v7,8). They were clean (John 13v10) and rejoicing in their salvation before the Day of Pentecost (Luke 24v52,53), having the Holy Spirit with them. (John 14v17). The Holy Spirit, Who was WITH them, then entered them on the Day of Penteost; the evidence of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit was that they exercised the gift of tongues! Acts 1v5,8, 2v4.

Yahweh Shalom...
Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 5:18 Be not drunk with wine wherein is excess, be be filled with the Holy Spirit.

Notice we are never exhorted to seek the baptism of the Spirit; neither are we told to be anointed with the Spirit nor are we commanded to be sealed with the Spirit. These are blessed facts, true of every believer. We are filled with the Spirit as we yield ourselves to God and walk in obedience to His word.
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
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#12
Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1v13 simply supports what I have written, the sealing by the Holy Spirit (ie the Baptism in the Holy Spirit) takes place after being born again, "...AFTER that ye believed, ye were sealed..."!
 
Jun 30, 2011
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#13
Eph 1v13 simply supports what I have written, the sealing by the Holy Spirit (ie the Baptism in the Holy Spirit) takes place after being born again, "...AFTER that ye believed, ye were sealed..."!
and reference 1 Cor 12:13 too :D - One baptism - multiple fillings - Father fill me today again with Holy Spirit


- hmm maybe if you believe that you saved yourself, then you get the Holy Spirit - are not most who believe in a separate baptism - arminian theology?
 

GregoryC

Senior Member
Feb 5, 2014
361
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#14
Eph 1v13 simply supports what I have written, the sealing by the Holy Spirit (ie the Baptism in the Holy Spirit) takes place after being born again, "...AFTER that ye believed, ye were sealed..."!
Believing and sealing are simultaneous. Read it again carefully. Here is the NIV saying the same thing;
Eph.1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
 
Jun 30, 2011
2,521
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#15
Eph 1v13 simply supports what I have written, the sealing by the Holy Spirit (ie the Baptism in the Holy Spirit) takes place after being born again, "...AFTER that ye believed, ye were sealed..."!
It does not support - that makes no sense - you cannot be born again on your own - salvation - is a supernatural birth where the Holy Spirit comes and opens your eyes to the Gospel - at salvation - you may be being wooed by the Holy Spirit and not be saved.

and yet - no talk about fruit of the Spirit still
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
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#16
For those interested you can find a bit of a study Here on the works of the flesh and the fruit of the Spirit...

Yahweh Shalom...
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
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#17
Unfortunately you're mistaken, being born again by the Holy Spirit and being baptised in the Holy Spirit are 2 separate acts of God the Holy Spirit, the baptism in the Holy Spirit taking place AFTER regeneration by the Holy Spirit!

The apostles were born again before the Day of Pentecost and had the Holy Spirit WITH them, (hence giving them the power to do signs, wonder and miracles to confirm the Gospel. Matt 10v7,8). They were clean (John 13v10) and rejoicing in their salvation before the Day of Pentecost (Luke 24v52,53), having the Holy Spirit with them. (John 14v17). The Holy Spirit, Who was WITH them, then entered them on the Day of Penteost; the evidence of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit was that they exercised the gift of tongues! Acts 1v5,8, 2v4.

Yahweh Shalom...
That teaching would conflict with Titus 3:5. One is baptized at the moment they receive Christ as their Savior. They can be filled many times to minister in power. Tongues not being a ready evidence of the Holy Spirit presence or filling.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
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#18
That teaching would conflict with Titus 3:5. One is baptized at the moment they receive Christ as their Savior. They can be filled many times to minister in power. Tongues not being a ready evidence of the Holy Spirit presence or filling.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
As usual you are mistaken, the Lord Jesus said to the 70 evangelists when they returned in Luke 10v20:

"...rejoice because your names are written in heaven."

To have one's name written in the Book of Life, one MUST be born again! John 3v5, Rev 20v15

These 70, along with the 12 Apostles and the rest of His disciples ALL had received Him as their Saviour and so were ALL born again! John 6v68,69

So what I wrote is VERY much in harmony with Titus 3v5
 
P

paulsfam4

Guest
#19
the works is also living for Jesus not walking in sin ! on a daily basis living your life for God and that is doing his will ! anything else God wants us to do he will bring it to us
 
Jun 30, 2011
2,521
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#20
Unfortunately you're mistaken, being born again by the Holy Spirit and being baptised in the Holy Spirit are 2 separate acts of God the Holy Spirit, the baptism in the Holy Spirit taking place AFTER regeneration by the Holy Spirit!

The apostles were born again before the Day of Pentecost and had the Holy Spirit WITH them, (hence giving them the power to do signs, wonder and miracles to confirm the Gospel. Matt 10v7,8). They were clean (John 13v10) and rejoicing in their salvation before the Day of Pentecost (Luke 24v52,53), having the Holy Spirit with them. (John 14v17). The Holy Spirit, Who was WITH them, then entered them on the Day of Penteost; the evidence of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit was that they exercised the gift of tongues! Acts 1v5,8, 2v4.

Yahweh Shalom...
If your teaching a second work of Grace, that's another gospel