Gay and Lesbian Announcement: Once Saved Always Saved

[Utah]

Paul said those that partake of the vile sins of the flesh like murder, rape, fornication, lying, stealing, extortion, idolatry, adultery, profane language, covertness, gossiping busy bodies, vile jesting, riotous, despisers of those that to good, etc. will not inherit the kingdom of God...Their were many people mentioned in the bible who were not sinners. Were they as perfect as Jesus? No...They had sins of ignorance, human flaws, not all perfect knowledge, a moment of doubt, but I can guarantee you that Job had no vile sins of the flesh that would disqualify him, nor did Zacharias and Elisabeth. Yet we know despite of Zacharias being perfect and keeping ALL the commandments of God he still had sins of ignorance and a moment of doubt, so he was chastised by God and spoke not for 6 months until John was born....God does not chastise for willful sin. The day of atonement in the OT was not for wilful sins of the flesh, those people were not around for the day of atonement. None qualify their statement when using the loose term "sinless perfection", they seem to imply that one has to be as perfect as God to be sinless. That's simply not true, the bible is full of perfect people that NEVER engaged in the vile sins of the flesh...Joseph, Hana, and Daniel are good examples but they were not as perfect as Jesus, they just obeyed God with all there own mind, heart, and soul, not Jesus's mind, heart, and soul. One is only accountable to the measure they have not someone else's measure..

If someone is not as perfect as Jesus then they're not perfect.

Who are you in the parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector? I'm the tax collector; and I thank God He wants me to be perfect, but does not condemn me for being imperfect.

Grace; it's the essence of Jesus' mission on Earth, yet 2000 years later people are still trying to snuff it out like a cigarette butt. The shame of it all.

 

[Utah]

I seem to remember a time you didn't believe that.

Praise God he's gained true understanding!

 

[pilgrimage]

My pastor once dealt with the issue of continuous sinning especially a grave sin (read homosexuality et al)which contaminates the whole congregation/church and he said God will give you time (and it can be years and years) to repent and thereafter He will kill you literally for the sake of the congregation.

 

[samuel23]

Hi Monnkai: You are 100% correct. The very presence of the Holy Spirit will cause you to repent in even the small things. God is holy therefore sin becomes extremely sinful and we want to turn away(repent) from whatever it is that displeases God.

 

[willybob]

Utah---The tax collector came clean with God in repentance, he didn't have any more rebellion or guile in his heart, the rebellion and guile ceased, just as the women caught in adultery, Zacchaeus. Do you still have any guile in your heart, or do you have heart purity that walks in the Spirit through faith that establishes the law?....None without holiness will see the Lord...Job was perfect but you cant be? Zachariah and Elisabeth were perfect but you cant be? How come? What sins cant you stop? Dig deep and build your house of the Rock of Truth, lest the flood of lies sweep it away....

 

[88]

That's called "Fiction".

What you just described has never happened and never will.

Dude was never 'Born Again' to begin with... and whatever 'Abiding Spirit' he had, it wasn't the Holy Ghost that's for sure.

God knows the End from the Beginning.

Therefore your hypothesis is false to begin with.

****I don't think we know if someone is truly saved---only they know and God-----Check out the testimony of Matthew Vines-----I think he was saved in his youth----later turned to gay activism...
https://youtu.be/_8ZgSHK6tdA

 

[88]

I have learned a few things from this thread*****1. we need to become more informed on the Gay Agenda----things are happening and many either ignore things or turn to hate*****2. Many people could be destroyed because of the "Once Saved Only Saved" teaching----not because the people that hold it are evil---but because this is such a seductive teaching to those who are weak----many Christians are looking for the easy way and this is just one more reason for it---we are living in times which demand wisdom, strength, and commitment----and teachings which undermine the firm commitment which is needed in these days need to be firmly and lovingly rejected and corrected---not necessarily as false teaching but as things which do not edify or build up or tend toward fruitfulness-----the time of playing is long over...

 

[RickyZ]

I seem to remember a time you didn't believe that.

No, I've always held that no amount of good works will get you in and no amount of sin will kick you. Salvation is 100% based upon belief and confession.

Chronic sin is, however, evidence of whether or not you are a true believer.

Even tho saved, you will still be judged for your sin, and suffer loss for it.

Sexual sins, particularly homosexual sins, will receive extra scrutiny.

Once saved by belief and confession, the only way to be unsaved is apostasy ... disbelief and denial.

The Bible compiles a huge list of things that separate us from God, a list that encompasses every. single. one. of. us.

That is why salvation is based solely, 100%, on TRUE belief and confession. If not, NONE of us would be saved.

 

[88]

No, I've always held that no amount of good works will get you in and no amount of sin will kick you. Salvation is 100% based upon belief and confession.

Chronic sin is, however, evidence of whether or not you are a true believer.

Even tho saved, you will still be judged for your sin, and suffer loss for it.

Sexual sins, particularly homosexual sins, will receive extra scrutiny.

Once saved by belief and confession, the only way to be unsaved is apostasy ... disbelief and denial.

The Bible compiles a huge list of things that separate us from God, a list that encompasses every. single. one. of. us.

That is why salvation is based solely, 100%, on TRUE belief and confession. If not, NONE of us would be saved.

*****your making a good point----I don't know how losing one's salvation works and all one has to do for it to happen---that is why I do not encourage people to teach "Once Saved Always Saved"----denial of Christ and falling from Grace is a terrible thing-----when people go into sins (1 Corinthians 6:9) which are considered serious I believe they can erode one's faith and they can become apostate---or they reject the dealing of the Spirit and are cut off like Paul prayed (destruction of the flesh that the spirit be saved---I Corinthians 5:5)----any teaching which gives people the idea that now they are "home free" and all future sin and actions are covered may be in for a rude awakening----when they take the warning which go along with it lightly---for Peter to say it is better not to be born than to have known the way of righteousness and depart from it (2 Peter 2:21)...

 

[willybob]

I have learned a few things from this thread*****1. we need to become more informed on the Gay Agenda----things are happening and many either ignore things or turn to hate*****2. Many people could be destroyed because of the "Once Saved Only Saved" teaching----not because the people that hold it are evil---but because this is such a seductive teaching to those who are weak----many Christians are looking for the easy way and this is just one more reason for it---we are living in times which demand wisdom, strength, and commitment----and teachings which undermine the firm commitment which is needed in these days need to be firmly and lovingly rejected and corrected---not necessarily as false teaching but as things which do not edify or build up or tend toward fruitfulness-----the time of playing is long over...

its the prestigious baby-boom entitlement mentality...they believe they are entitled to everything other men/women have worked hard for in earnest....the little red hen story... they dont want to crucify the evil desires of the flesh and come clean with God in repentance...they want the instant gratification gospel of no works....so God sends them a plethora of smiling false prophets that tickle their ears because they love not the truth....

 

[willybob]

Grandpa

Note regarding Romans 11 Paul warned that the Gentikes could also be cutt off if they fail to CONTINUE in the faith...

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith.Be not highminded, but fear: (fear God who has the power to cast the soul into hell)

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. (many professed Christians are so proud of their OSAS mythology that they even boast in it, as well as boasting of their sin thinking its of merit)

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, (fell away from the faith) severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

How do they miss this stuff, its on just about every page of Paul's letters? 85 times in the New Testament..One needs to be blind not to see it. Jesus said they have eyes but see not..

 

[Ahwatukee]

Grandpa

Note regarding Romans 11 Paul warned that the Gentikes could also be cutt off if they fail to CONTINUE in the faith...

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith.Be not highminded, but fear: (fear God who has the power to cast the soul into hell)

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. (many professed Christians are so proud of their OSAS mythology that they even boast in it, as well as boasting of their sin thinking its of merit)

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, (fell away from the faith) severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

How do they miss this stuff, its on just about every page of Paul's letters? 85 times in the New Testament..One needs to be blind not to see it. Jesus said they have eyes but see not..

Hi willybob,

I agree with you. There are a many scriptures demonstrate OSAS if you continue in your faith. Like these below for example:

"Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of[SUP]g[/SUP] your evil behavior. But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel."

"My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins."

Notice that the one who wandered away from the truth is a true believer, for he refers to them as brother or sister. And that while in that wandered state, they are accumulating sin and are headed for death. In addition we have the following:

"But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

These are just a few off the top of my head. I believe that OSAS is true as long as the believer continues in the faith. Regarding this Jesus said the following to his disciples and therefore to all believers:

"“I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples."

 

[Utah]

Utah---The tax collector came clean with God in repentance, he didn't have any more rebellion or guile in his heart, the rebellion and guile ceased, just as the women caught in adultery, Zacchaeus. Do you still have any guile in your heart, or do you have heart purity that walks in the Spirit through faith that establishes the law?....None without holiness will see the Lord...Job was perfect but you cant be? Zachariah and Elisabeth were perfect but you cant be? How come? What sins cant you stop? Dig deep and build your house of the Rock of Truth, lest the flood of lies sweep it away....

Depends what you call rebellion and guile. I'm opinionated, drink beer, get mad when someone cuts me off, and live and let live unless someone proves themself incapable. Are you saying God's grace does not apply to such as me?

 

[Utah]

its the prestigious baby-boom entitlement mentality...they believe they are entitled to everything other men/women have worked hard for in earnest....the little red hen story... they dont want to crucify the evil desires of the flesh and come clean with God in repentance...they want the instant gratification gospel of no works....so God sends them a plethora of smiling false prophets that tickle their ears because they love not the truth....

You stress works for your salvation? That's interesting. I don't see much love in your posts but rather smug self righteousness. I simply give thanks to God for the free gift of salvation that can't be earned.

 

[dcontroversal]

Utah---The tax collector came clean with God in repentance, he didn't have any more rebellion or guile in his heart, the rebellion and guile ceased, just as the women caught in adultery, Zacchaeus. Do you still have any guile in your heart, or do you have heart purity that walks in the Spirit through faith that establishes the law?....None without holiness will see the Lord...Job was perfect but you cant be? Zachariah and Elisabeth were perfect but you cant be? How come? What sins cant you stop? Dig deep and build your house of the Rock of Truth, lest the flood of lies sweep it away....

The word perfect means complete and or mature....it does not carry the modern English idea of perfect.....NO ONE can attain that while in a fallen body that fails.....end of story.....Jesus said THERE IS NONE GOOD but GOD....when he said that and at that time there were saved, immersed disciples of JESUS walking the earth and he said that NONE WERE GOOD!

WAKE UP PAL.....saved SINNERS is what we are, where SIN abounds grace did much more ABOUND<---written to a CHURCH that had SAVED SINNERS in it!

 

[dcontroversal]

You stress works for your salvation? That's interesting. I don't see much love in your posts but rather smug self righteousness. I simply give thanks to God for the free gift of salvation that can't be earned.

No doubt.......and where sin abounds....GRACE did MUCH MORE ABOUND<---written to saved, immersed church members...!

 

[Utah]

The word perfect means complete and or mature....it does not carry the modern English idea of perfect.....NO ONE can attain that while in a fallen body that fails.....end of story.....Jesus said THERE IS NONE GOOD but GOD....when he said that and at that time there were saved, immersed disciples of JESUS walking the earth and he said that NONE WERE GOOD!

WAKE UP PAL.....saved SINNERS is what we are, where SIN abounds grace did much more ABOUND<---written to a CHURCH that had SAVED SINNERS in it!

Amen brother. Saved sinners. Too bad CC isn't named, Saved Sinners; we'd have more conversations about God's love than works based perfectionism.

 

[dcontroversal]

Amen brother. Saved sinners. Too bad CC isn't named, Saved Sinners; we'd have more conversations about God's love than works based perfectionism.

HAHAH I laughed out loud and agree.....We can suppress it, stop particular sins and walk in a pleasing manner that brings honor to God, but that does not mean we never sin or won't sin......the bible is clear and these things written about sin are written while there are saved people on the planet...

There is NOT a JUST an upon the earth that does good and SINS NOT<---end of story!

 

[88]

You stress works for your salvation? That's interesting. I don't see much love in your posts but rather smug self righteousness. I simply give thanks to God for the free gift of salvation that can't be earned.

****doing Loving good works and obedience are not for Salvation but because we are saved--'' some Christians are allergic to good works because people tell them they are trying to earn their salvation, so they almost go in the opposite direction away from serving God and fulfilling their destiny---- we are saved by Grace---- the good works flow from a Loving relationship...

 

[wsblind]

"Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of[SUP]g[/SUP] your evil behavior. But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel."

Many believers will not be presented holy and blameless. They will have not continued in their faith. And they will be saved as if through fire. Rather than their continue in their faith(Studying the mind of Christ/living the Christian way of life) they will be refined as if by fire at the Bema seat. They will have shame. But they are saved.

New American Standard Bible
Now, little children, abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not shrink away from Him in shame at His coming.

New American Standard Bible
If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

"My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins."

The sin unto physical death. Live a lifestyle of evil(human good) or sin after salvation. God will take that believer home. Moses came real close to this. David came close. Saul died the sin unto death(physical)

New American Standard Bible
Now it came about at the lodging place on the way that the LORD met him and sought to put him to death.

"But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards.The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of.He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

From your in depth study of the times of the end? You don't see this as the unbelieving Jews?

This is speaking of unbelieving Israel.

"“I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples."

This is Christian works. Not the LoF judgement. The emphasis is fruit, not whether or not The Lord Jesus Christ was going to toss the disciples(believers) into the Lake of Fire Forever and ever. It even sounds silly reading it doesn't it?

If the believer does not remain in fellowship(filled with the Spirit or grieving the Spirit) their fruit is worthless and is LIKE a branch that the farmer prunes from his grape vines, burns in the oven and the ashes are left.

12Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work. 14If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. 15If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.