Genesis 32

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Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#21
Jul 18, 2017
24,514
12,956
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#21
posthuman said:
Jacob, travelling towards Esau, meets angels.
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Since human beings ordinarily do not meet individual angels "just like that", let alone a company of angels, we need to understand the significance of a group of angels meeting Jacob.

If you recall, when Jacob was on the run from Esau (for grabbing Esau's birthright deceitfully) at the beginning he saw a ladder going up to heaven, and angels ascending and descending on it. It would appear from this that God was intimating to Jacob that this Deceiver and Supplanter was under God's protection because he would eventually become a man of faith and the progenitor of the twelve tribes of Israel. So now when Jacob is once again fearful of Esau, God sends him a group of angels to remind him again that he is still under God's protection (and that is purely by grace since he has done nothing to deserve that).

At the same time, God works on Esau's heart so that instead of killing his brother, he treats him kindly and sends him on his way. However in the end Esau/Edom would become bitter enemies of Israel, and would be judged severely. After that he meets the Angel of the LORD (a theophany of Christ) to learn a few lessons about God and about himself (which is a separate topic altogether).
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#22
Jul 31, 2013
36,685
13,139
113
#22
Nehemiah6 said:
Since human beings ordinarily do not meet individual angels "just like that", let alone a company of angels, we need to understand the significance of a group of angels meeting Jacob.

If you recall, when Jacob was on the run from Esau (for grabbing Esau's birthright deceitfully) at the beginning he saw a ladder going up to heaven, and angels ascending and descending on it. It would appear from this that God was intimating to Jacob that this Deceiver and Supplanter was under God's protection because he would eventually become a man of faith and the progenitor of the twelve tribes of Israel. So now when Jacob is once again fearful of Esau, God sends him a group of angels to remind him again that he is still under God's protection (and that is purely by grace since he has done nothing to deserve that).

At the same time, God works on Esau's heart so that instead of killing his brother, he treats him kindly and sends him on his way. However in the end Esau/Edom would become bitter enemies of Israel, and would be judged severely. After that he meets the Angel of the LORD (a theophany of Christ) to learn a few lessons about God and about himself (which is a separate topic altogether).
Click to expand...


we've got "two camps" to look for - men and angels, Jacob and Esau. God's camp and 'not God's camp'

and we've got this:

Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with humans and have overcome.
(Genesis 32:28)
​

so we have Jacob wrestling with God and with man to look for - two camps - because Jacob overcomes, and we can see what it is to overcome. when we find overcoming, i think we will be close to finding Christ - He it is that overcomes :)





 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#23
Jul 31, 2013
36,685
13,139
113
#23
posthuman said:


we've got "two camps" to look for - men and angels, Jacob and Esau. God's camp and 'not God's camp'

and we've got this:

Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with humans and have overcome.
(Genesis 32:28)
​

so we have Jacob wrestling with God and with man to look for - two camps - because Jacob overcomes, and we can see what it is to overcome. when we find overcoming, i think we will be close to finding Christ - He it is that overcomes :)

Click to expand...


Jacob camps with the angels, but there's no more interaction with the divine until he wrestles with what he thought at first was a man - apart from Jacob's prayer.

we have him in great fear and distress in verse 7, dividing his own into two camps because of it. wrestling with Esau in his mind.
then starting in verse 9 we have him praying:

“O God of my father Abraham, God of my father Isaac, Lord, you who said to me,
​
‘Go back to your country and your relatives, and I will make you prosper,’
​
I am unworthy of all the kindness and faithfulness you have shown your servant. I had only my staff when I crossed this Jordan, but now I have become two camps.
Save me, I pray, from the hand of my brother Esau, for I am afraid he will come and attack me, and also the mothers with their children.
But you have said,
​
‘I will surely make you prosper and will make your descendants like the sand of the sea, which cannot be counted.’”
​

Jacob calls on Him as God, who has given him promises. he praises God for grace - saying he is not worthy of the kindness He has shown, in keeping His promises. he praises God for keeping promises, for undeserved faithfulness to him, and asks Him to help because of the promises He has made, and been faithful to keep. God you are faithful in your mercy and kindness; be faithful to me in mercy and kindness! :)

it's significant that he says he's unworthy of the kindness and faithfulness God has shown him - as though he says, You have set me in 'Your camp,' though i should be in 'not Your camp'









 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#24
Jul 31, 2013
36,685
13,139
113
#24
posthuman said:

“O God of my father Abraham, God of my father Isaac, Lord, you who said to me,
​
‘Go back to your country and your relatives, and I will make you prosper,’
​
I am unworthy of all the kindness and faithfulness you have shown your servant. I had only my staff when I crossed this Jordan, but now I have become two camps.
Save me, I pray, from the hand of my brother Esau, for I am afraid he will come and attack me, and also the mothers with their children.
But you have said,
​
‘I will surely make you prosper and will make your descendants like the sand of the sea, which cannot be counted.’”​
Click to expand...

Jacob divides himself into two camps here:

In great fear and distress Jacob divided the people who were with him into two groups, and the flocks and herds and camels as well.
He thought, “If Esau comes and attacks one group, the group that is left may escape.”
(Genesis 32:7-8)
​

we know why he divided into two camps, and what he was thinking when he did it. great fear and distress!

but when he prays, he says:

I am unworthy of all the kindness and faithfulness you have shown your servant. I had only my staff when I crossed this Jordan, but now I have become two camps.

​
he says he is become two camps, and says it in conjunction with the undeserved kindness and faithfulness of God!
is he expressing great fear and distress by saying he has become two camps? what's his attitude now? what is he saying to God with this? :)

there's the two camps, and is there the wrestling with God and man?
 
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