Gifts and Fruits of the Holy Spirit ?

[p_rehbein]

Jn.14:17 says nothing about us or that the Comforter will abide with us forever and it would be a further contradiction since He is not and cannot be with us in the first place as at Jn.14:17 - indirectly of course yes via scriptures that He was sent to inspire and reveal - wincam

IF you are suggesting that Jesus (in the Gospel of John) DID NOT promise the Comforter (Holy Spirit) to the ENTIRE CHURCH, to abide within them until His return, then you are sorely mistaken, and do a GRAVE INJUSTICE to the Gospel of Christ. To the point of it being an abomination of Scripture.

By this suggestion, you completely discount the "Indwelling Presence" of the Holy Spirit among Believers of Christ which is how SANCTIFICATION occurs.

This statement of yours is enough for me to lose interest in the thread.............

 

[AllenW]

Well.............that clears up your belief of how the Solar System works.......

Please tell what has been cleared up.
I would like to hear how you translate what I believe.

 

[p_rehbein]

Please tell what has been cleared up.
I would like to hear how you translate what I believe.

Your about one step behind this conversation, right?



(goodness)

MEANWHILE............back on Topic

 

[tourist]

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He's actually a very spiritual person that offers an insightful perspective on the events that shape society. Very amusing too. I find him to be very relevant. He's forthright and honest as well. You have to take the time to know the members of this site before you are able to make a qualified assessment of who you think that they are.

 

[AllenW]

16,868 posts.
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He's actually a very spiritual person that offers an insightful perspective on the events that shape society. Very amusing too. I find him to be very relevant. He's forthright and honest as well. You have to take the time to know the members of this site before you are able to make a qualified assessment of who you think that they are.

And should not the same go for me?
Should I be disrespected because I've only made 70 posts?
Should not the person with 18,000 + posts set the standard of respect around here
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[p_rehbein]

TO: AllenW

You believe I have wronged you. Sorry for that. However, let us review the evidence:

You initiated the discussion between us with your Comment #15......

Originally Posted by p_rehbein

I always love to point out that the sun neither "sets", nor "rises." The earth revolves around the sun.

As for the Scripture in Joshua.........vs. 14 is important to include also in my opinion.

And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
14 .) And there was no day like that before it or after it, that the LORD hearkened unto the voice of a man: for the LORD fought for Israel.




Ecclesiastes 1:5;
"The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises".

Where did you get your information from?​

FROM THERE IT PROCEEDED AS FOLLOWS........

From God's creation plan...........

You do know that much of the Old Testament was written as Poetry right? Just saying.

The earth revolves around the sun. About once every 24 hours. We call that one day. The sun does not revolve around the earth. Therefor, the sun neither rises or sets in reality........rather the earth rotates on its axis and on an orbital path around the sun at the same time causing there to be different levels of sunlight or moonlight throughout the 24 hour period.

You DO know this right?


I don't know what to say really.
People don't believe the word of God anymore.
But even more so, when the writer of Ecclesiastes is referred to as "one guy's opinion".
I didn't know the Bible was a Book of opinions.
I've seen for quite some time now that people believe whatever they want or don't want about Scripture.
But now it's come down to "one guy's opinion".

Lord Jesus come quickly!


You can not be serious............you can not believe that the sun, the start, the other planets and their moons REVOLVE around the earth.......I think you are just stirring the pot..........with weird humor?

But you have managed to derail the thread a wee bit, so, I suppose there is that.


I could care less whether the Earth is flat or whatever.
What astounds me is how easily people are persuaded to believe something other than what the Bible says.

Well.............that clears up your belief of how the Solar System works.......


Please tell what has been cleared up.
I would like to hear how you translate what I believe.


Your about one step behind this conversation, right?



(goodness)

MEANWHILE............back on Topic



16,868 posts.
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ending there, for that is the gist of the conversation........


In all honesty, I am hard pressed to see where I wronged you. Given your initial comment was a criticism of a comment I had posted, and it surely appears you were disagreeing with my belief of how the Solar System operates, for you used a single Scripture to belittle my comment. Here, this is the one....



Ecclesiastes 1:5;
"The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises".

Where did you get your information from?



and it ends with your ZINGER......


16,868 posts.
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Given that we appear to be at odds.........let me simply say that if you believe I wronged you, I am sorry for that......and that you appear to have suggested that I (or others here) do not believe in or understand the Word of God, I am also sorry for that.

Let us part ways, and may God bless and keep you and yours.

 

[tourist]

And should not the same go for me?
Should I be disrespected because I've only made 70 posts?
Should not the person with 18,000 + posts set the standard of respect around here?
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

No one should be disrespected Allen, regardless of the number of posts. I'm probably blind to a lot of things of this world. Perhaps one day I will see the light. May all of God's blessings be upon you and those that you love.

 

[CS1]

16,868 posts.
Do you actually ever say anything relevant or are you just a talker?

ok let be more considerate please of other. Thank you tone it down a little

 

[wincam]

IF you are suggesting that Jesus (in the Gospel of John) DID NOT promise the Comforter (Holy Spirit) to the ENTIRE CHURCH, to abide within them until His return, then you are sorely mistaken, and do a GRAVE INJUSTICE to the Gospel of Christ. To the point of it being an abomination of Scripture.

By this suggestion, you completely discount the "Indwelling Presence" of the Holy Spirit among Believers of Christ which is how SANCTIFICATION occurs.

This statement of yours is enough for me to lose interest in the thread.............

The Holy Spirit most assuredly was promised to the Church to guard and guide her but not to all and sundry as Tom, Dick and Harry with some saying this and others saying that in constant confusion,contradictions and chaos attributable to the Holy Spirit - wincam

 

[RobbyEarl]

I don't know how y'all can live without the Holy Spirit I know I can't.

 

[Ahwatukee]

The Holy Spirit most assuredly was promised to the Church to guard and guide her but not to all and sundry as Tom, Dick and Harry with some saying this and others saying that in constant confusion,contradictions and chaos attributable to the Holy Spirit - wincam

Hello wincam,

Unfortunately, There was confusion and contradictions in Paul's day and there is always going to be confusion and contradictions and it is only going to get worse as the world becomes inundated with more and more false teachers and the continuing apostasy. This is the result of the on-going fulfillment of the following prophecy:

"For the time will come when men will not tolerate sound doctrine, but with itching ears they will gather around themselves teachers to suit their own desires. So they will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths." (2 Tim.4:3)

The unsound doctrine "itching ears" are books, seminars, you tube, the internet, hear-say and false teachers. This is where many are getting their information from and calling it the word of God. In the parable of Mt.13, it tells us that the weeds are always going to be along side the wheat until the very end. The only true source of truth is the word of God and that is what we should all be depending on to know what is the truth and what isn't.

Blessings in Christ

 

[RobbyEarl]

Hello wincam,

Unfortunately, There was confusion and contradictions in Paul's day and there is always going to be confusion and contradictions and it is only going to get worse as the world becomes inundated with more and more false teachers and the continuing apostasy. This is the result of the on-going fulfillment of the following prophecy:

"For the time will come when men will not tolerate sound doctrine, but with itching ears they will gather around themselves teachers to suit their own desires. So they will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths." (2 Tim.4:3)

The unsound doctrine "itching ears" are books, seminars, you tube, the internet, hear-say and false teachers. This is where many are getting their information from and calling it the word of God. In the parable of Mt.13, it tells us that the weeds are always going to be along side the wheat until the very end. The only true source of truth is the word of God and that is what we should all be depending on to know what is the truth and what isn't.

Blessings in Christ

You left out basketball arena sized churches.

 

[Grace777x70]

I don't think the size of a church has any bearing on it's validity. Every part in the body of Christ has a different function and different purposes. To say that a big church is not from God is not wise IMO. To say that small groups of believers are not from God and everyone should go to a large church is equally not wise.

Some churches in NT times had thousands in them and some had small groups only.

 

[RobbyEarl]

I don't think the size of a church has any bearing on it's validity. Every part in the body of Christ has a different function and different purposes. To say that a big church is not from God is not wise IMO. To say that small groups of believers are not from God and everyone should go to a large church is equally not wise.

Some churches in NT times had thousands in them and some had small groups only.

Yeah I know but most (not all) are seeker sensitive and are afraid to offend because they need the money. I could name about ten ( or more) that are scratching ears

 

[Grace777x70]

Yeah I know but most (not all) are seeker sensitive and are afraid to offend because they need the money. I could name about ten ( or more) that are scratching ears

Unless I visited those churches and seen all the people in them and knew what was in their hearts - I could not make such a judgment. They may have some teachings I don't agree with but that wouldn't make them not from God in my opinion.

All parts of the body do not have the same function. Now - outright heresy like denying the deity of Christ or His finished work on the cross and resurrection and that He did not come in the flesh. Now that makes a difference.

 

[RobbyEarl]

Unless I visited those churches and seen all the people in them and knew what was in their hearts - I could not make such a judgment. They may have some teachings I don't agree with but that wouldn't make them not from God in my opinion.

All parts of the body do not have the same function. Now - outright heresy like denying the deity of Christ or His finished work on the cross and resurrection and that He did not come in the flesh. Now that makes a difference.

I did not mean to rule out large churches I attend a church that seats about 5,000 on a Sunday morning and has an early service that seats about 3,000 Sunday night about 2,000 and on CME's ( Christmas, Mothers day, and Easter) seats about 15,000. But we didn't start that way, any way you know what I mean.

 

[Grace777x70]

I did not mean to rule out large churches I attend a church that seats about 5,000 on a Sunday morning and has an early service that seats about 3,000 Sunday night about 2,000 and on CME's ( Christmas, Mothers day, and Easter) seats about 15,000. But we didn't start that way, any way you know what I mean.

I do know what you mean and wouldn't it be so unwise of someone to judge your church because of it's size. I know you are not doing that. There are people that would be against your group just because of the size and then they would pick out something in your doctrine to "justify" their stance against you. It's the way of the carnal mind.

I love how your community has respect for your church family as you can see by the numbers that do come for the special events. That's wonderful and Christ-like. God bless your assembly there....

 

[p_rehbein]

The Holy Spirit most assuredly was promised to the Church to guard and guide her but not to all and sundry as Tom, Dick and Harry with some saying this and others saying that in constant confusion,contradictions and chaos attributable to the Holy Spirit - wincam

As it appears, and I could be wrong, that you DO NOT believe in the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit, I can see no value in further discussion of this with you. To each his own I suppose. God bless.

 

[wincam]

As it appears, and I could be wrong, that you DO NOT believe in the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit, I can see no value in further discussion of this with you. To each his own I suppose. God bless.

not at all - to each his own is precisely the problem and not at all the solution - wincam

 

[reneweddaybyday]

1 John 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.


1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.


If we fellowship with the Father and with the Son Jesus Christ, we will fellowship with others who fellowship with the Father and the Son Jesus Christ.

The HS unites God's people.

However, when we fellowship with God, His Son, and each other, there will be no unity with those who are "of the world" (unbelievers).

Jesus came to bring peace between the believer and God. Jesus did not come to bring peace between the believer and the unbeliever.