Give us these kind of men
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I agree.....From God in the garden and exposing the lie of the serpent to the prophets, Jesus, Paul, Jude, John, Peter etc......ALL exposed false prophets, teachers, preachers etc. and warned the people.....we have a whole "cloud of witnesses" to the biblical approach to laying their falsities bare and then warning ALL to their wiles.....
I have not judged the man's salvation, only what he spews with a smile.....end of story.......Christianity on a whole is filled with "milkers" which have no stomach for the negative aspect and or hard things of the bible.....the bible contains a balance and many want only the good, positive things...makes me think of the prophet.....and the people..
Don't preach or proclaim unto us the hard, difficult, right things, but rather speak unto us of SMOOTH THINGS<---I.E> the things that make us feel good.......
New American Standard Bible
Who say to the seers, "You must not see visions"; And to the prophets, "You must not prophesy to us what is right, Speak to us pleasant words, Prophesy illusions.
King James Bible
Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:
I have not judged the man's salvation, only what he spews with a smile.....end of story.......Christianity on a whole is filled with "milkers" which have no stomach for the negative aspect and or hard things of the bible.....the bible contains a balance and many want only the good, positive things...makes me think of the prophet.....and the people..
Don't preach or proclaim unto us the hard, difficult, right things, but rather speak unto us of SMOOTH THINGS<---I.E> the things that make us feel good.......
New American Standard Bible
Who say to the seers, "You must not see visions"; And to the prophets, "You must not prophesy to us what is right, Speak to us pleasant words, Prophesy illusions.
King James Bible
Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:
S
I used to listen to him myself until I found out he thinks half the Christian population are controlled by a demon if they speak in tongues
lordship salvation is not new. it's not the gospel; it adds to salvation
I am aware of his views since I used to listen to him, so perhaps if you like him, you just don't approve of anyone criticizing his teaching
lordship salvation is a whole lot more than realizing you need a Savior
it is far more involved than that
I was saved when I was a child and you certainly do NOT have to know you are a dead man/woman/child walking
sorry but that is nonsense. many come to Christ with broken hearts and their salvation 'sticks'
we grow in Christ and I have come to appreciate His sacrifice on my behalf over the years far more than I could have even if I had been saved at 21 and had the capacity to grasp such concepts.
Nicodemus simply asked 'what must I do to be saved?' there was nothing about dead man walking or even sins when Jesus answered him
John 3
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Good post! We stand in good company, and in days of not enduring sound doctrine we will not be popular, even among professing believers. Nothing new under the sun there. And for the record, Steve Lawson is a man of integrity, and he did not take Osteen out of context, nor did he misquote him as others are suggesting. In fact, some videos provided to defend Osteen conveniently left out what he said which Lawson quoted. Then, those who presented the videos drew their conclusions off of that.
Still amazed that some on here believe his heresy, but looking at their other posts and twisting of Scripture I'm no longer amazed.
Still amazed that some on here believe his heresy, but looking at their other posts and twisting of Scripture I'm no longer amazed.
Joel is an interesting mix of how to be successful as a confident self promoter, and
God will bless you if you bless me with money.
I have listened to testimony after testimony of people even when they knew giving for
reward was deception they still did it just in case.
Jesus had one simple rule for teachers. They teach error, in a big way, there whole
tree is bad, so junk it all. You cannot compromise on Jesus and the cross saving the
world, because there is no other way, literally. If a preacher does not know this,
why are they a preacher, and are they even a believer?
Being a nice guy and saying nice stuff if not what Jesus did. So if you want a mega
church, invariably not preaching like Jesus is going to work, lol.
God will bless you if you bless me with money.
I have listened to testimony after testimony of people even when they knew giving for
reward was deception they still did it just in case.
Jesus had one simple rule for teachers. They teach error, in a big way, there whole
tree is bad, so junk it all. You cannot compromise on Jesus and the cross saving the
world, because there is no other way, literally. If a preacher does not know this,
why are they a preacher, and are they even a believer?
Being a nice guy and saying nice stuff if not what Jesus did. So if you want a mega
church, invariably not preaching like Jesus is going to work, lol.
A
Okay Dcon, whatevzzz
Catch you on another thread sevenseas. You might have listened to more of his sermons than I have, but from what I have heard and read (which is perhaps 3 or 4 sermons) he doesn't jump ship and preach a works salvation gospel, which is what you seem to say Lordship salvation gospel is. I am sure we can discussion that topic more on another thread.
I just checked back to see Dcon response.
Getting tired of being called names so will catch you on another thread.
Catch you on another thread sevenseas. You might have listened to more of his sermons than I have, but from what I have heard and read (which is perhaps 3 or 4 sermons) he doesn't jump ship and preach a works salvation gospel, which is what you seem to say Lordship salvation gospel is. I am sure we can discussion that topic more on another thread.
I just checked back to see Dcon response.
Getting tired of being called names so will catch you on another thread.
Read this on Dcon's post, & decided to respond.
Notice what I see.....
This is what I see several doing:
"He's okay as long as he don't preach a works-based gospel."
"We're not gonna say anything bad about him unless he preaches a works-based gospel"
Don't think so? Check every thread in the BDF & you'll find out otherwise.
Every single person who says I'm not gonna judge him like that has actually judged those who supposedly preach a works based gospel.
All inclusive? Oh yeah..... except for one.
Notice what I see.....
This is what I see several doing:
"He's okay as long as he don't preach a works-based gospel."
"We're not gonna say anything bad about him unless he preaches a works-based gospel"
Don't think so? Check every thread in the BDF & you'll find out otherwise.
Every single person who says I'm not gonna judge him like that has actually judged those who supposedly preach a works based gospel.
All inclusive? Oh yeah..... except for one.
Read this on Dcon's post, & decided to respond.
Notice what I see.....
This is what I see several doing:
"He's okay as long as he don't preach a works-based gospel."
"We're not gonna say anything bad about him unless he preaches a works-based gospel"
Don't think so? Check every thread in the BDF & you'll find out otherwise.
Every single person who says I'm not gonna judge him like that has actually judged those who supposedly preach a works based gospel.
All inclusive? Oh yeah..... except for one.
Notice what I see.....
This is what I see several doing:
"He's okay as long as he don't preach a works-based gospel."
"We're not gonna say anything bad about him unless he preaches a works-based gospel"
Don't think so? Check every thread in the BDF & you'll find out otherwise.
Every single person who says I'm not gonna judge him like that has actually judged those who supposedly preach a works based gospel.
All inclusive? Oh yeah..... except for one.
W
Honestly DC. Did you need someone to point out to you that Joel is more than a little off on His Gospel? I don't believe you did, like most anyone else who has even a shallow level of His word.
The guy who is "exposing" Joel is using Joel and Joel's OBVIOUS false teachings to HIDE and MASK his own very,very hard to see false teachings.
Lawson is the dangerous false teacher. Joel exposes himself without anyone's help.
The guy who is "exposing" Joel is using Joel and Joel's OBVIOUS false teachings to HIDE and MASK his own very,very hard to see false teachings.
Lawson is the dangerous false teacher. Joel exposes himself without anyone's help.
Actually, not to put your mom down, but she was quoting Thumper's mother in Bambi. Bambi first came out in 1945, so I doubt Disney got it from your mom. I know I certainly got it from Bambi! (Or rather, Thumper's mom!)
It is a good saying, if you are dealing about people in your neighbourhood, friends or family. But when you are dealing with false prophets, heretics who preach to 30,000 people in their church, (apparently the largest church in the US!) and yet they cannot articulate the simple gospel? And yet people go to this person's church, buy their books, watch their videos?? And worse, give him millions of dollars in the hopes that they will receive millions of dollars. Or maybe they just enjoy his "positivity?" Still, this New Age cult of thinking yourself happy, wealthy and wise, in the name of Jesus, is the biggest and worst cult the world has ever seen in many years!
The church is being deceived by these liars! And those people on here, who claim that you can't follow both what the Bible says, and the Holy Spirit. Who sadly have had to make the difficult decision to follow the Holy Spirit, rather than acknowledge what God says in the Word of God, which is obey God's laws, while you walk with the Holy Spirit. Except people, following the Bible and the Holy Spirit is not an either/or proposition! They go hand in hand!
But hey, I would hate to force anyone into such legalism as reading and following the Bible, when they can follow a false prophet like Joel Osteen, or on the other side of the world, Joseph Prince! If someone wants to put themselves out there, in public, on the media, both religious and secular, and call themselves a Christian without acknowledging Jesus is Lord (I read someplace that is not right??) then they have proved themselves a deceiver!
"If you declare with your mouth Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Romans 10:9
If Osteen can't do this on the Larry King Show, then he is no preacher of the Lord!
"32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." Matt 10:32-34
Ariel, I have known you to be a fairly Biblicaly sound person in the past. But now, you seem to have jumped on a certain bandwagon around here. You need to think before you post!
1. On what basis will Jesus judge Hindus, Muslims, Jews, Pagans, atheists.....?
On the basis of whether they acknowledge him before men (people) as Lord and Saviour, especially when being interviewed on international TV as a preacher of the gospel! Where was the gospel? Where was the gospel for these Hindus, Muslims, Jews, Pagans, atheists? This was a great and mighty preacher, who could not stand firm on what the Bible says about the lost?
The gospel was nowhere! So all those unbelievers watching him on the Larry King Show, or on a Youtube videos are only going to hear the of Osteen's failure to effectively present the gospel. Not judge unbelievers? How about not give them a chance, maybe the only chance they will ever have, to hear the gospel?
AGAIN!
"So everyone who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven, 33 but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven." Matt 10:32-34
2. God takes joy in our happiness, because we are happy with him. Because we are obeying him. Because we are growing closer to God, and closer to the image of Christ! Because we have love for the brethren, etc. Not because we have more money, and we can network with rich people in Osteen's church. Church is for fellowship, but it is also for corporate worship. And not worship of Joel and his false gospel of health and wealth, but worship of the living God - Jesus Christ, Lord and Saviour!
I just can't believe how the Osteens are unable to acknowledge the gospel, and instead make it "all about me!" Like a sick, insidious personality disorder as ministry! For a lost and dying generation!
Yes, and then, in a positive change in your post, you acknowledge that these prosperity teachers like Osteen and Prince present half truths! Those are the lies of the devil, to draw us away from God. I'm not saying we all get it perfect. But this intentional assault of the gospel by these thieves is what I stand against! You can hide your head in the sand, and try to keep everyone happy on both sides of the debate as to whether false teachers need to be rebuked, but in the end, you will just end up making enemies on both sides!
W
How many people needed to slap you in the face and point out the false teachings of Joel? I confidently say NONE.
But when it comes to likes of Lawson using Joel to cover his own very deceptive false teachings.......it takes another believer to show them.
Lawson is a loadofskubala salvation teacher. He teaches our discipleship and our working for the Lord as our salvation and not our trusting in the Lord Jesus Christ for our salvation.
And what a weasel to hide behind Joel and Joel's obvious short comings.
Lawson is way more dangerous and would probably eat his own young to hide his false teachings.
But when it comes to likes of Lawson using Joel to cover his own very deceptive false teachings.......it takes another believer to show them.
Lawson is a loadofskubala salvation teacher. He teaches our discipleship and our working for the Lord as our salvation and not our trusting in the Lord Jesus Christ for our salvation.
And what a weasel to hide behind Joel and Joel's obvious short comings.
Lawson is way more dangerous and would probably eat his own young to hide his false teachings.
i'm not Lawson's apologist... but i think you don't understand his views.
i've read two of his books and heard dozens of his sermons, and he teaches God saves.
in a monergistic, supernatural way, God saves. never, ever have i heard him say anything like "we contribute to our salvation".
now, maybe you have, in which case you should feel free to present such evidence.
i do encourage you, though, not to confuse God saving (by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone)
with believers having no responsibilities AFTER God saves us. Lawson does talk about those things, thank God.
also, there's a whole lot of talk about "love", but how loving is it to go on your merry way while someone is on their way to hell and not warn them? is that the love of which God speaks to us??
i find it rather interesting that some folks who posted in this thread that we ought not "judge" Osteen are perfectly okay with the very same thing when it comes to threads about someone like Herbert Armstrong.
Feelings aren't the means to truth, Scripture is that means.
I'm sure your Mom was a nice lady but she's not the repository of truth on this matter. Again it is Scripture.
Note Romans 16:17: Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
We are to mark those who teach false doctrine that is the cause of division. We cannot do so without knowing who they are. Joel Osteen is just one of them.
Here are a couple examples of Paul doing this, of whom we are to follow:
Alexander the coppersmith did me great harm; the Lord will repay him according to his deeds. 2 Timothy 4:14
6But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness, 17and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18who have swerved from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already happened. They are upsetting the faith of some. 2 Timothy 2:16-18
8Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men corrupted in mind and disqualified regarding the faith. 9But they will not get very far, for their folly will be plain to all, as was that of those two men. 2 Timothy 3:8-9
Now, we have some here that are opposing the truth of exposing false teachers. Please attempt to squash your sentimentalism with truth from Scripture. I do not trust those who won't name names and stand on truth. Since you can't stand on truth allow the big boys and girls here to do so. Thanks.
I'm sure your Mom was a nice lady but she's not the repository of truth on this matter. Again it is Scripture.
Note Romans 16:17: Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
We are to mark those who teach false doctrine that is the cause of division. We cannot do so without knowing who they are. Joel Osteen is just one of them.
Here are a couple examples of Paul doing this, of whom we are to follow:
Alexander the coppersmith did me great harm; the Lord will repay him according to his deeds. 2 Timothy 4:14
6But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness, 17and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18who have swerved from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already happened. They are upsetting the faith of some. 2 Timothy 2:16-18
8Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men corrupted in mind and disqualified regarding the faith. 9But they will not get very far, for their folly will be plain to all, as was that of those two men. 2 Timothy 3:8-9
Now, we have some here that are opposing the truth of exposing false teachers. Please attempt to squash your sentimentalism with truth from Scripture. I do not trust those who won't name names and stand on truth. Since you can't stand on truth allow the big boys and girls here to do so. Thanks.
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