Globe or Snowglobe

Bladerunner · Sep 21, 2016

Again I agree but, the further away the the sun gets, your horizon get taller. Yes, in the case of an ocean ship where it disappears at around 30 miles. Yet if you use a good spotting scope, the ship is still there. This would be the same with the sun on OUR flat earth. If you could climb a tree that grew into the heaven, you could see the ends of the earth including the sun in South America. Sorry I did paraphrase a verse and should not have. That would be Daniel and the giant tree.

GOD said::

Genesis 1: 6-8 ...6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

Genesis 1:14-19...14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

Set them (sun, moon and stars) IN the Firmament not outside the firmament. A funny thing about the Bible, it mentions not one planet ever being made or placed somewhere. Oops? No planets? Have you ever seen one in person outside of a video or a picture or some NASA official telling you women come from Venus and men came from Mars. As a Geocentrist,, the earth is at the center of all things. Now that throws up a lot of hay to digest!

So, you going to tell me that what God said in his book of Genesis, the very set of Books that God gave Moses on Mt. Sinai is all a LIE?

The Mother of All Conspiracies: The 'Flat Earth' Hypothesis (I Know It Sounds Crazy, But Read On! ) | Humans Are Free

LaurenTM · Sep 21, 2016

posthuman · Sep 21, 2016

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posthuman · Sep 21, 2016

Bladerunner said:

you still don't get it.

the top half of the sun is visible when it rises or sets while the bottom half is not, and it doesn't matter how strong of a telescope you have, this is what goes on. every morning and every night.
perspective does not do that.

not to mention that the math can't possibly work out to make the sun look like it is actually touching the horizon on a flat earth in the first place -- you'd need an infinitely wide earth.

here's a picture that does that math for you ((thanks, AuntieAnt))

even in the darkest part of the night, you're saying the sun is at least 15 or 20 degrees above the horizon. like it is at like 8 or 9 am in most latitudes.

let me guess -- even this still doesn't dawn on you, right?

and people wonder why the Jews still didn't "get it" after they had the angel of God literally leading them around as a pillar of cloud and fire for 40 years, and bread from heaven miraculously feeding them.
this is supernatural blindness in action, folks.
want to see a miracle?
try reasoning with someone who believes the earth is flat. our visitor here is either completely psychotic, or under God's judgement having his thinking supernaturally darkened.

eternally-gratefull · Sep 21, 2016

I watched the space station go overhead this morning, It looked like a slow moving shooting star which went from one side of the sky to the other.. If the earth was flat. It would just keep going, or it would travel back the opposite direction in the sae location.

Anyone who had been in an airplane on a long flight where they basically go into an area where you can see black above, and light below. You see the curvature of the earth.

Utah · Sep 21, 2016

Bladerunner said:

Only those who have gouged out an eye and cut off an arm believe literally.

Utah · Sep 21, 2016

breno785au said:

That's awesome, brother. Thanks for sharing!

BeyondET · Sep 21, 2016

LaurenTM said:

[/QUOTEp]

quite funny indeed, two verses come to mind

2 Cor. 5:13
If we are "out of our mind," as some say, it is for God; if we are in our right mind, it is for you.

Mark 3:21
When his family heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, "He is out of his mind."

LaurenTM · Sep 21, 2016

BeyondET said:

LaurenTM said:

different kinds of out of minds

great science thread though

BeyondET · Sep 21, 2016

LaurenTM said:

BeyondET said:

Is it huh that's interesting, yes Jesus came so man could reconcile with God, Yet was doing who's business?

Bladerunner · Sep 21, 2016

posthuman said:

Where did you get the information that a sun/star (polaris) is 3000 miles up? God did not say that nor did I. What about the Sun,,,,Where did it go. I don't know how high they are. It could be 500 miles high or less. Our upper limit by planes is 100,000 ft. or so. In this case, the lower the sun/star, the smaller the circle its light will cover. Do you know how much light our sun covers now. Then the size or the distance could be calculated. However, this would also be speculation since our science says the Sun is 93 million miles away and Polaris is several light years away.

Oh, did you know the speed of light is slowing down.......In fact, this has been proven within some college labs where they actually stopped the speed of light. Oh my,,, how this rabbit hole goes forward?

How do you start calculating something with false figures and come out with any kind believable results?

Regardless, God said he put the Sun, Moon and Stars inside the firmament. How high is the firmament? It does not matter? I am not arguing with you about whether flat earth exists. God told us how he made it and I believe that. If you want to take everything he says as allegorical because mankind's science says it is so,,,Fine by me.

I bring this information to the people who want to know what God said about the earth they live on. The ancient Hebrew people knew exactly what it looked like and it has not changed in 6000 years. WE HAVE! We have become so conceited with our own brilliance that we especially our scientist defy God by bringing us back to the days of Noah. I will not call God a Liar, I love him too much!

LaurenTM · Sep 21, 2016

BeyondET said:

LaurenTM said:

say what?

say what? (that 10 character stipulation requires I repeat myself)

posthuman · Sep 21, 2016

Bladerunner said:

flat earth wiki. where else?

https://wiki.tfes.org/Distance_to_the_Sun

but i didn't make that picture. flat earth wiki fiddles with some numbers and comes up with around 2400 miles. at ~ 78% of the scale given in that illustration, it still puts the sun between 15 and 20 degrees above the horizon at its lowest point in the night sky -- which should be directly north.

so in your paradigm, the sun doesn't "set" or "rise" -- it just "dips" in the sky a bit and travels in a circle.
contradicting dozens of places in the Bible that specifically refer to the sun rising and setting, by the way. in particular,

That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
(Isaiah 45:6, KJV)

the Bible here talks about sunrise in the east and sunset in the west. but in the flat earth paradigm, the sun doesn't actually "set" ever, and its lowest point is in the north, certainly not the west.

[HR][/HR][HR][/HR]pro tip:
when your private interpretation of the scripture doesn't jive with reality, it's your interpretation of scripture that's wrong.
reality isn't wrong.
scripture isn't wrong.
you are.
[HR][/HR][HR][/HR]

you might ask, what height should the sun be on a flat earth if it should actually appear to touch the horizon? simple trigonometry is enough for back-of-the-envelope estimate; we just solve a right triangle for the 'height'

here the observer is at A, the distance to the equator is the side b and the angle alpha is the altitude of the sun in the sky.

the polar circumference of the earth is around 24,875 miles. that makes the distance from north to south poles about 12,438 miles, and from equator to north pole about 6,219 miles. since the sun visibly sets at the north pole, we'll use that as a limiting case. b = 6,219 miles

we know 'b' and we can set 'alpha' to what we need to match observation, so to solve for the height 'a' we have:

tan(alpha) = a/b
a = b*tan(alpha)

now about alpha .. it cannot be negative, because you say the sun doesn't actually orbit the earth, therefore it never passes below the plane. plus that would put it circling below ground lol. so what happens if we make alpha = 0, so that the sun appears to be actually at the horizon point, 0 degrees above it?

a = b*tan(0) = b*(0) = 0

which implies the sun is at zero height. it would not be in the sky at all for that to happen, it would be buried in the dirt at the equator. i don't think that's realistic.

well, people's eyes can only discern so well, so let's be generous and assume alpha is something very small, like 3 degrees, but it appears to us the sun has actually touched the horizon because our eyes just aren't good enough to tell that small difference.

a = b*tan(2) = 6,219mi*(0.035) = 217.7 miles

so for the sun to appear to be only 2 degrees above the flat horizon at midnight, at the north pole, if the earth is flat, the sun should only be around 218 miles up.

is that how far you think the sun is from the earth, roughly?

posthuman · Sep 21, 2016

@Bladerunner,

if you want to talk, we're going to stick to exactly one subject at a time, and talk about it until we're completely satisfied.

not 30 different things so that you can't concentrate on any single one -- that's a classic manipulation technique, overloading a person's attention with dozens of flawed arguments so that they don't have time to realize what's wrong with any single one.
this is how 'flat earth' cultists typically always present their case, rapidly moving from subject to subject to subject, so that a person trying to either understand or contend with them either has to write several encyclopedias to address everything, or can't fully address any single point. when they are unable to counter any single argument, they move quickly on to another subject, before it can sink in that the last argument they've been presenting is fatally flawed and deceptive.
the person being deceived/manipulated can't mentally keep up and assess every point, and it seems like there is a great weight of evidence being presented, though in reality each 'evidence' is false; it's just that there are too many of them to counter, and the person's mind is overloaded trying to focus on any single one of them.

that's what has happened to you, and that's what you're trying to do with the OP too, presenting dozens of misinterpretations of scripture all at once. any single one of them is wrong if we examine it in detail -- no single one of them is definitively showing the earth is flat at all, but there are so many it's not practical to address them all, but if any single one is addressed, your MO would be to ignore that and flood the conversation with other ones, all equally flawed arguments.

like i said, it's a classic manipulation technique ((as my psychology professor friend was explaining to me)). and it's what you're done in the last couple posts, too -- instead of answering the objection i'm raising, you want to shift the conversation to some private interpretations of scripture.

in short, i'm going to ignore everything else you bring up until we can come to a satisfactory conclusion about sunset/sunrise.
& that's not because i can't contend with any other point or that i'm conceding that you are right on any other point at all. it's because 'flooding' the conversation with 20 subtly false arguments, refusing to examine carefully any single one, is manipulative and deceptive.

posthuman · Sep 21, 2016

what "sunset" is on flat earth:

the sun never dips below the horizon. because of perspective, owing to increased distance, it appears smaller ((not to scale - we can calculate how much smaller it appears, and there are serious problems there too.. )). it always stays above the horizon, but because of perspective appears a bit closer to it. it never disappears from view. not in part, not totally -- not at all.

[HR][/HR][HR][/HR]
what we actually observe:

the sun doesn't visibly change size to any large degree. it does appear larger near the horizon because it is being 'lensed' through more atmosphere, but this variation is actually slight. it actually dips below the horizon and disappears from view. it does this bit by bit at a steady rate until it is actually no longer visible.

perspective does not explain this behavior and every eye on earth can see it happen twice a day, every single day of every week and month and year of every living thing's life.

[HR][/HR][HR][/HR]
explain... ?

posthuman · Sep 21, 2016

_______________________________

Bladerunner · Sep 21, 2016

Post Human:
I am not really sure why you are trying to draw me into a ??????ing contest about how the sun sets and rises??

*The event horizon for a human would be determined by the distance and the size of the object one wants to see. The 'event horizon' works the same on both models.

*On a Globe, the sun is static and the globe is spinning. On a flat plane, the sun is circling the plane.

*The definition of a sunset and sunrise and those definitions would be different for a globe and a flat plane as seen by the human eye.

*The light shining on the globe is on the area of the globe that is directly Facing the sun.

*The light shining on the flat plane is the on the area directly Below the Sun.

*On a spinning globe, lets say the sun is rising over the event horizon at 7AM EST. I reside in CST area. My event horizon does not detect any daylight until just before sunrise 7am CST.

*On a flat plane, the sun rises (comes up over the event horizon for that area) at 7AM EST. Since I am in CST time it is 6AM and there is no light to be seen because of the 'event horizon' of my eyes don't reach that far.

*On a globe, when the sun goes down during the nighttime hours, the sun can never be seen regardless of the power of a telescope or the height you can rise to. The sun is behind the globe.

*On a flat plane, depending on the distance and the size of the object, one can take a telescope and see the object in question. If you get to a higher altitude, you would be able to see the object in this case the sun. However with increased distance the lumens of light decrease. The telescope might see a yellow dot (sun) but depending on the distance, that area you are observing from could be black dark.

PostHuman: It really does not how the sun sets or rises but that it does. The Lord God tells us in Genesis1: that he made a firmament and within it he put the sun, moon and stars. NO Planets

Do I believe that he gave Moses those words to write for each of the 5 books of the Torah. Yes, with all my heart.
It appears you do not. That is something you will have to discuss between you and your God.

It also appears that you have a problem with scripture and their meanings. Another point for your discussions with Jesus Christ himself. That is unless you don't believe in the Trinity either?

Either way, please consult those url, blogs, etc I have posted for any questions you might have outside the realm of the Holy Bible, King James Version. Now, if you want to talk turkey about the Bible, I will welcome that.

Oh, you won't need your friend the Psychologist or his friend Sigmund F. (the atheist) for Bible discussion.

Dino246 · Sep 21, 2016

Bladerunner said:

This is making an argument from silence... usually a bad idea, and definitely a poor foundation on which to build an alternate interpretation of a significant issue.

Bladerunner said:

I would strongly recommend that you read How to Read the Bible for All It's Worth by Gordon Fee and Douglas Stuart. It discusses the different genres found in Scripture and how there are different "rules" (your word) for interpreting them.

BeyondET · Sep 22, 2016

LaurenTM said:

1ofthem · Sep 22, 2016

Utah said:

Now that's a good point...funny but true...LOL

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