??God establishes earthly authority question??

[Bookends]

I was always under the impression that God was and is in charge (completely sovereign) in setting up Kings, ruling authorities, and governments as depicted in Romans 13:1, "Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God" and some other verses such as Daniel 2:21, "And He changes the times and the seasons; He removes kings and raises up kings; He gives wisdom to the wise."

But then I came across this verse today in Hosea 8:4, "They set up kings, but not by Me;
They made princes, but I did not acknowledge them. From their silver and gold, They made idols for themselves—That they might be cut off." God is speaking through Hosea here about the apostasy of Israel and their harlotry (EG, I'm not going to debate you on this!), which is basically what the whole book of Hosea is about.

I know, as any other serious Christian who is concerned with God Word, that the bible holds no contradictions. Therefore I am forced to rationalize this passage in Hosea by stating that God simply is saying He is leaving Israel to their own devises and handing them over to their own sinful lusts, in which through their own corruption unworthy Kings will arise by means of their own iniquities (in which is God's plan for them anyway). All this to result in their chastisement and judgment to come (Hosea 7:12, 8:1).

My questions to you is this:

1) Do you agree with my assessment?
2) Do you think God works does the same thing today, removing His blessings and allowing the people select our leaders (keeping the way we elected our gov. officials in mind)?
3) Do you have anything to add?

 

[loveme1]

Let him be our Authority always.

Look to him in all things and for all things.


The world is in Rebellion, he is offering Salvation to those that seek him through Yahshua the Messiah.

All things are coming to pass leading us to the harvest.

We must believe only in Him.

a world that is not for Him, is against Him.

 

[Bea22]

I was always under the impression that God was and is in charge (completely sovereign) in setting up Kings, ruling authorities, and governments as depicted in Romans 13:1, "Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God" and some other verses such as Daniel 2:21, "And He changes the times and the seasons; He removes kings and raises up kings; He gives wisdom to the wise."

But then I came across this verse today in Hosea 8:4, "They set up kings, but not by Me;
They made princes, but I did not acknowledge them. From their silver and gold, They made idols for themselves—That they might be cut off." God is speaking through Hosea here about the apostasy of Israel and their harlotry (EG, I'm not going to debate you on this!), which is basically what the whole book of Hosea is about.

I know, as any other serious Christian who is concerned with God Word, that the bible holds no contradictions. Therefore I am forced to rationalize this passage in Hosea by stating that God simply is saying He is leaving Israel to their own devises and handing them over to their own sinful lusts, in which through their own corruption unworthy Kings will arise by means of their own iniquities (in which is God's plan for them anyway). All this to result in their chastisement and judgment to come (Hosea 7:12, 8:1).

My questions to you is this:

1) Do you agree with my assessment?
2) Do you think God works does the same thing today, removing His blessings and allowing the people select our leaders (keeping the way we elected our gov. officials in mind)?
3) Do you have anything to add?

I've been wondering this recently myself, but maybe a slightly different point then you are heading. I was thinking about how God allowed a lying spirit to be used on those prophets in Ahab's time. It's interesting because it seems people are blinded, deceived etc, but all things work together for good (for those that are called). So maybe God does withdraw Himself from someone to allow them to make a wrong decision because He wants to teach or show them something, and uses the situation for good in the end, or for judgement. You know the interesting true stories in the Bible, there are some cases that make you wonder. For instance, I think its in Kings, there was a prophet whom God told to not eat or drink until he reached a certain place. The prophet obeyed until he was almost at the destination, then he met another prophet who invited him to a meal and convinced him that it would be okay if he ate and drank. He listened to him, and while he was at his house, a prophecy came from the very prophet that said it would be okay, to tell the other that he would receive judgement for disobeying God. The point seems to be to obey what God tells you, no matter what any other man or influence says, even if they are also anointed or in a position used by God.

To do with Israel, they also chose Saul because he looked great and like he would be a mighty leader. And God seemed to allow it for a time but yet had another person chosen for that position. God didn't seem to want them to have a king in the first place but He had the lineage already in His thoughts. So you just never know how God leads, whether it is His permissive will or His divine. I think that once His Word goes forth, as divine will of what He wants, even if you think you are changing His mind by asking and receiving something else, His Word will still stand. An example is with Balaam's prophecy, he still had to bless the people even though God told him not to go, not to be a part of it, he still wanted to go, so God allowed it but to bless His people, not curse them.

 

[Abiding]

No contridiction. they go together.
I can be in total control of a child while allowing as it pleases me
and for a greater purpose and plan to control the reins as I see fit
with deep consideration for the child as well, and others around.
And at times it may be necessary according to my purposes to let the
child appear as if their was no control whatsoever.

Jesus said He would have gathered them many times but they were not willing.
In that case God in control decided it pleased Him to yield for His greater purpose
which was not so good at particular moments along the way,

Romans 8:28 for instance so much is at play to fit His good will and Pleasure

 

[BarlyGurl]

My questions to you is this:

1) Do you agree with my assessment?
2) Do you think God works does the same thing today, removing His blessings and allowing the people select our leaders (keeping the way we elected our gov. officials in mind)?
3) Do you have anything to add?
[/COLOR][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

1) Absolutely
2) Mal.3:6 Ecc.1:9
3) The word is in perfect harmony, when I discovered this "inconsistency" I had to come to terms with the "teaching" I had absorbed from other sources. When I first started studying the bible I found all kinds of contradictions... I determined to approach them with the mindset that the problem was with me... not the scriptures. I find it is still very common for people to say "respect authority", but the TRUTH is we have the MIND of Christ, we are to test ALL things and we are to obey LEGITIMATE authority. Many Christians seem to have this Que Sera Sera attitude about what is going on around us... the parabel of the lamp and the basket comes to mind... or the wicked servant.

 

[BarlyGurl]

His permissive will

THERE is an EXCELLENT thread topic!!!!!

 

[Digital_Angel_316]

Psalms 2:

1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord, and against his anointed,

saying, 3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.

5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.

...