GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

[Dan_473]

If you are not under the law; the Schoolmaster that brings us to the Faith of CHrist you are not to be living outside of that which was written that ascribes to righteousness through the Spirit. For we are dead nevertheless we live, yet not us, but Christ liveth in us; and the life we now live we live by the faith of the Son of GOD.

So Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law, the Word; The Word manifested in the flesh; Christ) down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law. The Word manifested in the flesh; Christ) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law; the Divine utterances; Christ, the Word manifested in the flesh manifested in our flesh) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart and in thy hand: (that thou mayest do it) that is, the word of faith, which we preach.

what do you mean by

"that which was written that ascribes to righteousness through the Spirit" ?

my understanding was that every rule made by God relates to righteousness, to the right thing to do

 

[PS]

GOD said not I, the Word; HIS Christ; the Law is written; put in our hearts, minds, and mouth that we do it. And that would include all that which shows us the righteousness of GOD. The Decalogue and that which shows righteousness contained in the Book of the Law; HIS Word.

That which is written was written do to the lack of Faith mishandling and therefore misrepresenting Christ.

To be honest I think everyone in the world agrees with nine commandments of the Decalogue. As for the fourth, they say actions speak louder than words, and I am happy to follow Christ's example on that. He said to follow Him, He said his yoke is light and we need to rid ourselves from the yoke of the law. Jesus is my captain through life's troubled waters, he even knows the hairs on my head. It takes the Almighty to know that and in that respect the law is useless. So for me I follow Jesus every step of the way, and I don't argue with the boss.

 

[Dan_473]

God said don't hate your brother in your heart too didn't He? Moses also delivered that, didn't he? But the "THEM" Jesus was referring to didn't preach that did they? Whomever the "THEM" was, omitted the part about hating being just as bad as killing. God didn't omit this teaching, and neither did His human agent Moses, but the "THEM" did.

That is why Jesus didn't say "You have heard it said from Moses", because He wasn't speaking about Moses.

That's why He didn't say:

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of Moses, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

He wasn't speaking about God's human agent Moses as you preach. He was speaking about the Pharisees who He just rebuked.

i think it's Them of old, ie those not in the present time

Matthew 5: 21. "You have heard that it was said to the ancient ones, 'You shall not murder;'

 

[Studyman]

say, lightbearer

why do you accept what the Catholic councils say about what is scripture but reject what those same folks say about the Sabbath?

If I may, that's an easy one.

God used the Jews to preserve His Word for us. He told His Apostles to listen to the Word and do what it says when they read it, just don't do what they do. Because they say, and do not do.

God also used the Catholics to preserve His Word. The catholic religion is no different than the Pharisees religion. they both "Transgress the Commandments of God by their man made traditions.

So when we receive the Word which they preserved, we should listen to it and do what IT says because it is the same Word, not what the religion Jesus used to preserve it says. Because like the Pharisees, they say, but they don't do.

 

[Dan_473]

Absolutely, He is the Author of my Faith.

6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

But Jesus also warned that there are "many" who come in His name to deceive. (Lie about God) How do we know if we have been influenced by these liars or not?

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

So we would need to know what the written Word is to make sure some cleaver, subtle, self proclaimed "Minister of Righteousness" who preaches in the name of Jesus, hasn't convinced us of a lie about God.

And as far as the Sabbath Jesus created for man in concerned, He most certainly walked in it. And He is our living example. It's pretty much a no-brainer that those interested in the Jesus of the Bible would walk in it as well. Regardless of the preaching of the Pope or Jimmy Bakker.

interesting interplay there between the rules written in our hearts
and the rule written on paper

my thinking is that an outside person can't really deceive someone with the rules written on their heart

but we can certainly be carried away by our own lusts

 

[Studyman]

i think it's Them of old, ie those not in the present time

Matthew 5: 21. "You have heard that it was said to the ancient ones, 'You shall not murder;'

This translation doesn't change the context of the chapter, or the fact that Moses addressed hate as well as murder, but the preachers Jesus is correcting did not.

 

[Dan_473]

If I may, that's an easy one.

God used the Jews to preserve His Word for us. He told His Apostles to listen to the Word and do what it says when they read it, just don't do what they do. Because they say, and do not do.

God also used the Catholics to preserve His Word. The catholic religion is no different than the Pharisees religion. they both "Transgress the Commandments of God by their man made traditions.

So when we receive the Word which they preserved, we should listen to it and do what IT says because it is the same Word, not what the religion Jesus used to preserve it says. Because like the Pharisees, they say, but they don't do.

Matthew 23: 3. All things therefore whatever they tell you to observe, observe and do


the logical issue i see there is that if you do what Catholic folks say, you worship on Sunday

 

[Dan_473]

This translation doesn't change the context of the chapter, or the fact that Moses addressed hate as well as murder, but the preachers Jesus is correcting did not.

so, we agree that Moses said
*'You shall not murder;'?

 

[Jackson123]

Hello Jackson,

Who is kindling a fire? Where does it say that if you drive a car? You do not know God's Word and it will keep you out of God's KINGDOM because you reject the scriptures sent to help you. If your lamp has gone out how can you see the road when it is dark and narrow?

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; James 2:9-11).

ALL who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN WILL be LOST and NOT Enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

Dear, you have to learn how your car engine work,

the car engine has a spark plug, and if you start your car, the spark plug will Spark a fire and kindle a fire in that chamber,

check this His video how engine work

https://youtu.be/4W_NRHxekaY

 

[Dan_473]

Dear, you have to learn how your car engine work,

the car engine has a spark plug, and if you start your car, the spark plug will Spark a fire and kindle a fire in that chamber,

check this His video how engine work

https://youtu.be/4W_NRHxekaY

Yes, also house furnace

 

[Studyman]

interesting interplay there between the rules written in our hearts
and the rule written on paper

my thinking is that an outside person can't really deceive someone with the rules written on their heart

but we can certainly be carried away by our own lusts

I'm just posting scriptures which are relevant to the conversation. You either believe them or you don't. Like Paul said:

Rom. 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

Men either believe in God's Word or they don't. He doesn't make you follow Him or listen to Him. we must be convinced in our own mind whether He is worthy of our respect and honor or not.

 

[Studyman]

Matthew 23: 3. All things therefore whatever they tell you to observe, observe and do


the logical issue i see there is that if you do what Catholic folks say, you worship on Sunday

That's right Dan. Jesus really meant that we are to listen and do what the Pharisees preach, not the Word they read every Sabbath.

 

[Dan_473]

I'm just posting scriptures which are relevant to the conversation. You either believe them or you don't. Like Paul said:

Rom. 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

Men either believe in God's Word or they don't. He doesn't make you follow Him or listen to Him. we must be convinced in our own mind whether He is worthy of our respect and honor or not.

A big amen to that!

 

[Dan_473]

That's right Dan. Jesus really meant that we are to listen and do what the Pharisees preach, not the Word they read every Sabbath.

i think they both read the word and taught

 

[PS]

There is no law of Moses. GOD through Moses put down in the Book of the Law that which ascribes to the righteousness of GOD to establish us back to which we were in the Garden of Eden in Christ.


The righteousness ascribed in the Book of the Law; the Word; Christ is that to which is in our hearts minds and mouths that we do it. It is what righteousness is and who we are now in and because of Christ.

Righteousness 1. Morally upright; without guilt or sin.

Paul said, "Not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:" (Php 3:9 KJV)

Romans 10:6-8 is a quote from Deut. 30:10-14. Paul paraphrased it so that they would look it up. It was all that they had for Scripture then. We will start in verse six of Deut. so that it is clear that the Gospel was taught and available since Moses if not before.

And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. (Deu 30:6 KJV)

The fulfillment of this circumcision from GOD of Christ is stated in Deut 30:10-14. The readers of this letter would have been drawn to this passage from the beginning of the letter. It is written, "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly;
and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."(Rom 2:28-29 KJV) Which GOD promised to do in Deut. 30:6. Which when he did he then spoke the fulfilment of it in verses 10-14. Please take notice to the present tense.

If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep HIS commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But
the wordis very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.(Deut 30:10-14 KJV)

The LXX translation of this text adds "and in thy hand".

With the above text in mind please note that the phrases "HIS commandments and HIS statutes which are written in this book of the law" and "the Word" are being used synonymously. In this instance they are interchangeable. Please take notice that in Deut. 30 the Judgments are not mentioned.
With that being established let's take a look at Romans 10:6-8 now.

But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
(Rom 10:6-8 KJV)

So while the Israelis and Romans were reading this letter they would have been reading the Pentateuch and some of the other books from the Old Testament also. Actually with more regard. When they came to this verse they would of seen the similarities to Deut. and would have looked up the verses there and read them in parallel. In doing so would have tied everything together synonymously keeping everything in harmony to one another.

For the LORD our GOD will circumcise our hearts and the hearts of our seed. For righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law. In other words the Word; the Divine utterances. The Word manifested in the flesh; Christ) down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law. In other words the Word; the Divine utterances. The Word manifested in the flesh; Christ) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law; the Divine utterances; Christ, the Word manifested in the flesh manifested in our flesh) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart and in thy hand: (that thou mayest do it) that is, the word of faith, which we preach.

And that my friends would include all the moral code in the Book of the Law and the Decalogue. Including the Sabbath.

With the above understanding of verses Rom. 10:6-8; when they read verse four they would have understood it as Christ being the goal of the law for righteousness sake in the putting off the body of Sin through the indwelling of Christ. Being No longer of the letter but of HIS Spirit.

As it is written, "And they two shall be one flesh". The Body of Christ; the Temple of GOD. For it is GOD that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure. As Jesus said, "HE doeth work"!

Paul speaking to his 1st century audience pointed to Deuteronomy and then showed them the Saviour of the world, saying the word is nigh unto thee in Romans 10:6-10.

But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. (Rom 10:6-10 KJV)

Jesus is the Word and the Word was nigh. Our righteousness is through Christ the Word, and Christ is our salvation.

He was moving the Jews out from the old dispensation, and into the new dispensation. This is where you need to be, instead of harking backwards to the old dispensation the whole time.

 

[Studyman]

so, we agree that Moses said
*'You shall not murder;'?

1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

Yes, the Pharisees did use some of God's Word, as does the serpent.

That is why Jesus rebuked them, and immediately set about correcting their teaching by showing the truth He gave Moses and His Prophets that they omitted.

 

[Dan_473]

1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

Yes, the Pharisees did use some of God's Word, as does the serpent.

That is why Jesus rebuked them, and immediately set about correcting their teaching by showing the truth He gave Moses and His Prophets that they omitted.

so, Moses is the one who said Don't kill, and Jesus is speaking to his disciples

Yes?

 

[Dan_473]

does Moses explicitly say
No name calling?

 

[justpassinthrough]

If you walk by the Spirit you keep the Sabbath.

[FONT=&quot]But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Galatians 5:18[/FONT]

 

[Dan_473]

[FONT=&quot]But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Galatians 5:18[/FONT]

some folks have different ideas about what Under the law means

to me it's clear that it means
Obligated to behave as outlined in a rule set, specifically one that can be written on paper