GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

Studyman · May 12, 2018

I don't believe there is any significant differences between the Sabbaths given what the Word which became Flesh said,

Lev. 23:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts. (Not Jewish Feasts as "many" preach)
3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

4 These are the feasts of the LORD, (Word which became Flesh) even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.

God doesn't distinguish any significant difference between them, so neither do I.

Wall · May 12, 2018

phil36 said:

You could never be saved by the keeping of the law. All {but Jesus} have fallen short. Thing is, i cant imagine standing before the Lord saying "save me Lord", im an illegalist! I did nothing you commanded me to do

Wall · May 12, 2018

phil36 said:

Proverbs 7:2-3 (KJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Keep my commandments, and live; and my law as the apple of thine eye.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Bind them upon thy fingers, write them upon the table of thine heart.

Not according to scripture

Wall · May 12, 2018

phil36 said:

PSALM 78 [1] Give ear, O my people, to my law: incline your ears to the words of my mouth. [2] I WILL OPEN MY MOUTH IN A PARABLE: I will utter dark sayings of old: [3] Which we have heard and known, and our fathers have told us. [4] We will not hide them from their children, shewing to the generation to come the praises of the Lord, and his strength, and his wonderful works that he hath done. [5] For HE ESTABLISHED A TESTIMONY IN JACOB, AND APPOINTED A LAW IN ISRAEL, which he commanded our fathers, that they should make them known to their children: [6] That the generation to come might know them, even the children which should be born; who should arise and declare them to their children: [7] THAT THEY MIGHT SET THEIR HOPE IN GOD, AND NOT FORGET THE WORKS OF GOD, BUT KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS:

Yes it is all about Jesus. So give ear to Him. Listen to what He tells ya. Who opened his mouth in a parable? Yup, Jesus Christ. And this scripture says he established a testimony in Jacob, and appointed a law in Israel, that they might set their hope in God and KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS.

Endoscopy · May 12, 2018

Wall said:

The law tells us what sin is. It is Transgression of the law. Therefore the law is in place as Jesus said until heaven and earth disappear. Grace of faith in Jesus removes the penalty of the law. Those rejecting Jesus will be judged according to the law.

Romans 3 AMPC

19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that [the murmurs and excuses of] every mouth may be hushed and all the world may be held accountable to God.
20 For no person will be justified (made righteous, acquitted, and judged acceptable) in His sight by observing the works prescribed by the Law. For [the real function of] the Law is to make men recognize and be conscious of sin [not mere perception, but an acquaintance with sin which works toward repentance, faith, and holy character].
21 But now the righteousness of God has been revealed independently and altogether apart from the Law, although actually it is attested by the Law and the Prophets,
22 Namely, the righteousness of God which comes by believing with personal trust and confident reliance on Jesus Christ (the Messiah). [And it is meant] for all who believe. For there is no distinction,
23 Since all have sinned and are falling short of the honor and glory which God bestows and receives.
24 [All] are justified and made upright and in right standing with God, freely and gratuitously by His grace (His unmerited favor and mercy), through the redemption which is [provided] in Christ Jesus,

Wall · May 12, 2018

phil36 said:

Gal.2 is talking about circumscision.

Galatians 2:3-4 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

Not the 10 commandments. The book of Galatians is a book containing 6 very short chapters. In these 6 chapters circumcision is mentioned 16 times. The commandments are not mentioned once. Yet, those people that wish to do away with GODS commandments use scriptures from Galatians to try and do so. The law of circumcism is one of the carnal ordinances of the law that were nailed to the cross. Those that wish to do away with Gods 10 commandments will also try and tell you that the ordinances and the ten commandments are simply parts of the law and are not separate from one another. In saying that they will point to a scripture thats speaking of circumcision and then apply that scripture to Gods 10 commandments. This is done to extreme in the book of Galatians. The scripture below separates the law, the commandments and the ordinances

2 KINGS 17 [36] But the LORD, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt with great power and a stretched out arm, him shall ye fear, and him shall ye worship, and to him shall ye do sacrifice.[37] AND the statutes, AND the ordinances, AND the law, AND the commandment, which he wrote for you, ye shall observe to do for evermore; and ye shall not fear other gods.

AND means AND.... Right Mr. Clinton?

1 COR. 7 [19] Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

And although the law of circumcision was nailed to the cross, Gods law (the 10 commandments) are to be kept.

PS · May 12, 2018

Wall said:

Whose commandments are these, God's or the Mosaic law?

Deade · May 12, 2018

You argue the resurrection was on a Sunday, but it was actually on a Saturday evening. Christ was buried just before sundown: and 3 days/3 nights add up to a sundown resurrection. Jesus was crucified on a Wednesday. The Romans said it was Friday because of the sundown Sabbath was approaching. But it says in John 19:14 it was the preparation day (crucifixion day) which is the day before the annual Sabbath of the First Day of Unleavened Bread. Ask any Jew what the preparation day is. An annual Sabbath is called a high day.

John 19:31: "The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away."

John 20:1: "The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre."

Three days and three nights raises Him on Saturday evening. He had already risen unseen by early Sunday. Jesus was talking with Mary saying he had not ascended to His Father yet:

John 20:16-18: “Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master. Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.”

John 20:19: “Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.”

Later that same day He appeared to His disciples and they could touch Him. So, we can say for sure the ascension was on Sunday. We are given a picture of His ascension as the wave sheath day:[look up wave sheath day for yourself] when the first fruits were waved before God as a tribute. This was always done on the first Sunday after Passover.

This still does not make Sunday the Sabbath.

Teddy3930 · May 12, 2018

Endoscopy said:

I WAS A 7TH DAY ADVENTIST FOR 47 YEARS , READ 2 CORINTHIANS 3

PS · May 12, 2018

Deade said:

You argue the resurrection was on a Sunday, but it was actually on a Saturday evening. Christ was buried just before sundown: and 3 days/3 nights add up to a sundown resurrection. Jesus was crucified on a Wednesday. The Romans said it was Friday because of the sundown Sabbath was approaching. But it says in John 19:14 it was the preparation day (crucifixion day) which is the day before the annual Sabbath of the First Day of Unleavened Bread. Ask any Jew what the preparation day is. An annual Sabbath is called a high day.

John 19:31: "The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away."

John 20:1: "The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre."

Three days and three nights raises Him on Saturday evening. He had already risen unseen by early Sunday. Jesus was talking with Mary saying he had not ascended to His Father yet:

John 20:16-18: “Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master. Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.”

John 20:19: “Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.”

Later that same day He appeared to His disciples and they could touch Him. So, we can say for sure the ascension was on Sunday. We are given a picture of His ascension as the wave sheath day:[look up wave sheath day for yourself] when the first fruits were waved before God as a tribute. This was always done on the first Sunday after Passover.

This still does not make Sunday the Sabbath.

View attachment 181675

Why does it say the first day of the week?

Wall · May 12, 2018

PS said:

According to scripture

EXODUS 16 [28] AND THE LORD SAID UNTO MOSES, HOW LONG REFUSE YE TO KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS AND MY LAWS? [29] See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day. [30] So the people rested on the seventh day.

Wall · May 12, 2018

Deade said:

When i studied this I found the same thing Deade. Perfect! I looked into it when i did the math. Fri. afternoon till sunday morn doesnt even come close to 3 days AND 3 nights

Teddy3930 · May 12, 2018

TO TELL THE TRUTH , SABBATH OR SUNDAY MAKES NO DIFFERENCE TO ME ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.
I GROW UP IN A TIME WHEN EVERYTHING WAS CLOSED ON SUNDAY AND NO ONE FELT PERSECUTED.

PS · May 12, 2018

phil36 said:

Wall said:

PS said:

The question remains, Legalism kills physically and spiritually. Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath and the giver of eternal life said, fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.(Mat 10:28 KJV)

Those who keep the law will die in their sins, those who keep the law of God will have everlasting life.

Wall · May 12, 2018

PS said:

Yup PS. Fear Him!

LUKE 12 [4] And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. [5] But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, FEAR HIM.

So what does it mean to fear the Lord

DEUT. 6 [1] Now THESE ARE THE COMMANDMENTS, the statutes, and the judgments, which the Lord your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it: [2] THAT THOU MIGHTEST FEAR THE LORD THY GOD, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.

PSALM 111 [10] The FEAR OF THE LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding HAVE ALL THEY THAT DO HIS COMMANDMENTS: his praise endureth for ever.

PROVERBS 1 [7] THE FEAR OF THE LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction. [8] My son, hear the instruction of thy father, and FORSAKE NOT THE LAW of thy mother:[9] For they shall be an ornament of GRACE unto thy head, and chains about thy neck.

Heres a great scripture. Forsake not the law. Fear the Lord, get wisdom and receive His grace. The illegalist claim you cant mix the law and grace. So wrong

DEUT. 4 [10] Specially the day that thou stoodest before the Lord thy God in Horeb, when the Lord said unto me, Gather me the people together, and I will make them hear my words, THAT THEY MAY LEARN TO FEAR ME all the days that they shall live upon the earth, and that they may teach their children. [11] And ye came near and stood under the mountain; and the mountain burned with fire unto the midst of heaven, with darkness, clouds, and thick darkness. [12] And the Lord spake unto you out of the midst of the fire: ye heard the voice of the words, but saw no similitude; only ye heard a voice. [13] And he declared unto you HIS COVENANT, which HE COMMANDED YOU TO PERFORM, EVEN TEN COMMANDMENTS; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

If you let scripture interpret scripture you do well

PS · May 12, 2018

Wall said:

Friday is day one, Saturday is day two, Sunday is day three.

The period during which He was to lie in the grave is here expressed in round numbers, according to the Jewish way of speaking, which was to regard any part of a day, however small, included within a period of days, as a full day. (See 1Sa_30:12, 1Sa_30:13; Est_4:16; Est_5:1; Mat_27:63, Mat_27:64, etc.).

PS · May 12, 2018

Wall said:

Yup PS. Fear Him!

LUKE 12 [4] And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. [5] But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, FEAR HIM.

So what does it mean to fear the Lord

DEUT. 6 [1] Now THESE ARE THE COMMANDMENTS, the statutes, and the judgments, which the Lord your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it: [2] THAT THOU MIGHTEST FEAR THE LORD THY GOD, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.

PSALM 111 [10] The FEAR OF THE LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding HAVE ALL THEY THAT DO HIS COMMANDMENTS: his praise endureth for ever.

PROVERBS 1 [7] THE FEAR OF THE LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction. [8] My son, hear the instruction of thy father, and FORSAKE NOT THE LAW of thy mother:[9] For they shall be an ornament of GRACE unto thy head, and chains about thy neck.

Heres a great scripture. Forsake not the law. Fear the Lord, get wisdom and receive His grace. The illegalist claim you cant mix the law and grace. So wrong

DEUT. 4 [10] Specially the day that thou stoodest before the Lord thy God in Horeb, when the Lord said unto me, Gather me the people together, and I will make them hear my words, THAT THEY MAY LEARN TO FEAR ME all the days that they shall live upon the earth, and that they may teach their children. [11] And ye came near and stood under the mountain; and the mountain burned with fire unto the midst of heaven, with darkness, clouds, and thick darkness. [12] And the Lord spake unto you out of the midst of the fire: ye heard the voice of the words, but saw no similitude; only ye heard a voice. [13] And he declared unto you HIS COVENANT, which HE COMMANDED YOU TO PERFORM, EVEN TEN COMMANDMENTS; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

If you let scripture interpret scripture you do well

It is most noticeable how people avoid answering the question with lots of irrelevant cut and paste.

Wall · May 12, 2018

PS said:

You keep talking about how legalist will die if they keep the law. Is 2Cor.3 the scripture you have trouble understanding? Im not sure because you havent cut and pasted any "irrelevant" scriptures as you claim i do. According to the scriptures Jesus did not do away with the law but made the law greater. He magnified the law to a spiritual level. He made the 10 commandments even harder to keep.

2 COR. 3 [6] WHO ALSO HATH MADE US ABLE MINISTERS OF THE NEW TESTAMENT; NOT OF THE LETTER, BUT OF THE SPIRIT: FOR THE LETTER KILLETH, BUT THE SPIRIT GIVETH LIFE. [7] But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: [8] How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

ROMANS 7 [4] Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. [5] For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. [6] But now we are DELIVERED FROM THE LAW, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should SERVE IN NEWNESS OF SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE OLDNESS OF THE LETTER.

As we can see in above scriptures we are now to walk in the spirit of the law. If we walk only in the letter of the law this will lead to death, but if we walk in the spirit of the law this leads to life.

MATTHEW 5 [20] For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. [21] Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, THOU SHALT NOT KILL; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: [22] BUT I SAY UNTO YOU, THAT WHOSOEVER IS ANGRY WITH HIS BROTHER WITHOUT A CAUSE SHALL BE IN DANGER OF THE JUDGMENT: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

OLD LETTER- Thou shalt not kill
NEW SPIRIT- Don’t even get angry. Call no man a fool. Love one another in thought, word and deed.

MATTHEW 5 [27] Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, thou shalt not commit adultery: [28] But i say unto you, that WHOSOEVER LOOKETH ON A WOMAN TO LUST AFTER HER HATH COMMITTED ADULTERY with her already in his heart.

OLD LETTER- Thou shalt not commit adultery
NEW SPIRIT- Do not look on a woman to lust. Keep the law in our mind and spirit. Even in our eyes.

So you can see that Jesus did not do away with the letter of the law. Common sense will tell ya in order to walk in the spirit of the law you must also be walking in the letter. Jesus made the commandments even harder to keep and more honorable.

ISAIAH 42 [20] Seeing many things, but thou observest not; opening the ears, but he heareth not.[21] The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; HE WILL MAGNIFY THE LAW, and make it honourable.

Yes, Jesus magnified the law. He took the letter of the law (which leads to death) and magnified the law to a spiritual level (which leads to life).

Jackson123 · May 12, 2018

Wall said:

MATT.22 [35] Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, [36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?[37] Jesus said unto him, THOU SHALT LOVE THE LORD THY GOD WITH ALL THY HEART, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.[38] This is the first and great commandment.[39] And the second is like unto it, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF.[40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Why do you believe that we no longer need keep Gods 10 commandments because of what Jesus said in Matthew?

DEUT.6 [5] And THOU SHALT LOVE THE LORD THY GOD WITH ALL THINE HEART, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.[6] And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart [17] Ye shall diligently KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS of the LORD your God, and his testimonies, and his statutes, which he hath commanded thee.

Jesus was only quoting scriptures from the old testament. And as you can see in above scripture the way to love GOD is to keep diligently the commandments.

1JOHN 5 [2] By this we know that we love the children of God, WHEN WE LOVE GOD, AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS.[3] For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

And the new testament verifies the old testament as to how we are to show our love for God? In the new testament book of John. When we love God, we keep His commandments.

LEV.19 [17] Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.[18] Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF: I am the LORD.

Again (thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself) Jesus is quoting scripture from the old testament. Do you agree that the people who lived in old testament times were under the 10 commandments. Of course they were. So why when Jesus quotes old testament scripture do you think the 10 commandments are now done away with?

2JOHN1 [5] And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that WE LOVE ONE ANOTHER.[6] AND THIS IS LOVE, THAT WE WALK AFTER HIS COMMANDMENTS. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

In John, you can read how we are to love our neighbour according to the NEW TESTAMENT. It’s the same way that it says in the old testament. KEEP GODS 10 COMMANDMENTS. Jesus is the same today, yesterday and forever.

Yup.

so you believe we have to keep only 10 commandment or all OT?

Dan_473 · May 12, 2018

Wall,

"So you can see that Jesus did not do away with the letter of the law. Common sense will tell ya in order to walk in the spirit of the law you must also be walking in the letter."

I think maybe that's where we read it differently

continuing on

For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

a modern translation
And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Corinthians3&version=NIV

GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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