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E
1. Faith is not an act of obedience. where do you get this stuff? people have faith in things everyday, it does not mean it is obedience. many times we have faith in the wrong things. It is not an act of anything,
2. You become free to trust things the moment you are old enough to make decisions on your own.
2. You become free to trust things the moment you are old enough to make decisions on your own.
J
The relevant usage of the word faith would be in the context of faith in God. Not the faith in which I bestow upon the hydraulic brakes of my Ford Ranger. Does the specification help you understand the point, or do I need to go further into detail?
So, I'm in bondage to sin before I'm undefined age, and after than the chains are loosed, I just have a preference for it?
So, I'm in bondage to sin before I'm undefined age, and after than the chains are loosed, I just have a preference for it?
E
It would not matter.
Faith means trust. What you place your trust in is what you have faith in. To say someone who is not yet saved can not place their faith in what the law says (they are rightly condemned) and that God sent his son to save them would is just unfathonable. And to say doing so is a work. would be to make faith something it is not.
This makes no sense. Not sure what your trying to say.
Sorry, this is not how I see it. your post above. The only work one needs to do is work hard to enter God's rest, any other is of self.
Believe, Receive, and see. Stand fast in the finished work of Christ.
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
John 19:30
When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost
He came to fulfill the Old Covenant of the Law, not destroy it. There are many out here in this world that are also trying to fulfill the Law, and today have grace to get forgiven over and over, eventually getting tired of trying and upset more and more, not wanting to sin. Doing better at it sometimes and then not. When all one needs is to surrender to God complete
No flesh can be perfect, none except Christ who came born of the virgin Mary. So no other flesh can do as he did. They couldn't at all through the First Testament, as in working at it. By Faith though whomever had it received what was coming in and through Christ.
And Christ even while here in the flesh secured that inability even further and said if you even lust after another woman, you have already committed Adultery in your heart. Gouge out thine eye, better for part of you to go to heaven than all of you to enter hell.
So what did take place, after Christ by works of God trough him, in miracles prove? Was he sent and from God the Father?
What did John the Baptist say about him, when He did not even know him, when he saw him coming?
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
After Christ's Testament of fulfilling the Law and Prophets, and when he did this what took place at his death?
Hebrews 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance
Hebrews 9:16
For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
Hebrews 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
So his death brought in a new Covenant, and his resurrection is proof from God the Father, what God did through Son is:
Colossians 1:22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
So now those that believe God in this are free, been made Holy in Father's sight through Son Christ.
The below verses are the new Priesthood and new Laws, laws of God's love reigning in our new Hearts God gave us through the son Christ.
Hebrews 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron
Hebrews 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
So do you now see God's sovereignty, either one believes God in God's finished work at the cross or they do not.
1 Corinthians 1:23 but we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
[h=3]1 Corinthians 2[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
2 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling. [SUP]4 [/SUP]And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man’s wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: [SUP]5 [/SUP]that your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: [SUP]7 [/SUP]but we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: [SUP]8 [/SUP]which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. [SUP]9 [/SUP]But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. [SUP]10 [/SUP]But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. [SUP]13[/SUP]Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. [SUP]14 [/SUP]But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. [SUP]15 [/SUP]But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. [SUP]16 [/SUP]For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
Believe, Receive, and see. Stand fast in the finished work of Christ.
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
John 19:30
When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost
He came to fulfill the Old Covenant of the Law, not destroy it. There are many out here in this world that are also trying to fulfill the Law, and today have grace to get forgiven over and over, eventually getting tired of trying and upset more and more, not wanting to sin. Doing better at it sometimes and then not. When all one needs is to surrender to God complete
No flesh can be perfect, none except Christ who came born of the virgin Mary. So no other flesh can do as he did. They couldn't at all through the First Testament, as in working at it. By Faith though whomever had it received what was coming in and through Christ.
And Christ even while here in the flesh secured that inability even further and said if you even lust after another woman, you have already committed Adultery in your heart. Gouge out thine eye, better for part of you to go to heaven than all of you to enter hell.
So what did take place, after Christ by works of God trough him, in miracles prove? Was he sent and from God the Father?
What did John the Baptist say about him, when He did not even know him, when he saw him coming?
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
After Christ's Testament of fulfilling the Law and Prophets, and when he did this what took place at his death?
Hebrews 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance
Hebrews 9:16
For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
Hebrews 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
So his death brought in a new Covenant, and his resurrection is proof from God the Father, what God did through Son is:
Colossians 1:22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
So now those that believe God in this are free, been made Holy in Father's sight through Son Christ.
The below verses are the new Priesthood and new Laws, laws of God's love reigning in our new Hearts God gave us through the son Christ.
Hebrews 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron
Hebrews 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
So do you now see God's sovereignty, either one believes God in God's finished work at the cross or they do not.
1 Corinthians 1:23 but we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
[h=3]1 Corinthians 2[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
2 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling. [SUP]4 [/SUP]And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man’s wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: [SUP]5 [/SUP]that your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: [SUP]7 [/SUP]but we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: [SUP]8 [/SUP]which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. [SUP]9 [/SUP]But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. [SUP]10 [/SUP]But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. [SUP]13[/SUP]Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. [SUP]14 [/SUP]But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. [SUP]15 [/SUP]But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. [SUP]16 [/SUP]For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
When you believe God in that it is finished in God for you, You will receive and see the new life he gave you through Son.
But first agree to God to be made conformable to the death of Christ, being your death, co-crucified daily, you being dead to old self daily, Then the new life you live is by Faith in the Son of God who gave himself for you personally, as well as all people, if they will only believe God, and see this undeserving Mercy of God through Son.
Romans 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
So it is not anyone that forsakes their sin(s), it is God that does it through you, after God comes to live in you by belief, and if you stay steadfast in that belief, your sins shed from you, giving God all the credit, and if you do not, then pride enters, and God will send a messenger of Satan to buffet you to keep you humble in God. 2 Cor. 12 pretty clear on this God grace being sufficient
But first agree to God to be made conformable to the death of Christ, being your death, co-crucified daily, you being dead to old self daily, Then the new life you live is by Faith in the Son of God who gave himself for you personally, as well as all people, if they will only believe God, and see this undeserving Mercy of God through Son.
Romans 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
So it is not anyone that forsakes their sin(s), it is God that does it through you, after God comes to live in you by belief, and if you stay steadfast in that belief, your sins shed from you, giving God all the credit, and if you do not, then pride enters, and God will send a messenger of Satan to buffet you to keep you humble in God. 2 Cor. 12 pretty clear on this God grace being sufficient
Faith in its Acronyms is
F orever
A ble
I n
T he
H eavens
Trusting God in all things just as Christ showed us, and sent us the very same Holy Spirit that led him.
Hmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! could this be? And they had to wait for what before they went out and preached the word?
Yes the Holy Ghost of God to do what? The Leading
So what are we to do, the leading or be led by God through the Holy Spirit of God
John 14:17 even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Ephesians 1:13 in whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Ephesians 5:9 (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth
2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
1 Peter 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
1 John 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
F orever
A ble
I n
T he
H eavens
Trusting God in all things just as Christ showed us, and sent us the very same Holy Spirit that led him.
Hmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! could this be? And they had to wait for what before they went out and preached the word?
Yes the Holy Ghost of God to do what? The Leading
So what are we to do, the leading or be led by God through the Holy Spirit of God
John 14:17 even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Ephesians 1:13 in whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Ephesians 5:9 (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth
2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
1 Peter 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
1 John 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
B
If we were to take away human volition from man, could that man be saved and believe unto righteousness? Conviction from God is for the mind and heart and what we do with that conviction is for the human volition to freely decide upon. If we humble ourselves (act of human volition) to that conviction we will believe and receive grace to be saved, but if we do not humble ourselves and instead are complacent or turn and reject (act of human volition) that conviction then we have no faith to believe and no grace to be saved. The conviction of the Spirit is first and foremost and is what draws us to the truth. Then the heart has to decide upon that conviction of truth whether it wants to obey it unto righteousness or turn it aside in unbelief through disobedience. Salvation is always the result of conviction of truth but we have to agree with that conviction by faith to receive grace to be saved. The sovereignty of God acts according to the purposes of God to bring to past what God has promised and determined in himself. In that sovereignty the will of man is effected, and in some cases overruled, to bring to past what God had determined through foreknowledge. Sovereignty does not replace our faith but reveals the attributes of God in our faith that we can trust knowing that he is just and able to do what is right.
E
How does someone in chains believe in anything?
Can someone in chains because he rightfully commited a crime which caused his being bound in chains admit he is there of his own doing, and have faith that the people who put him in chains did the right thing? If I person comes and offers him freedom, by removing his chains, and being chained in his place accept the persons offer of freedom and forgiveness??
I think we all know the answer is yes!
E
Oh gee, look!
Someone else other than the prisoner took the chains off!
ZONE! Look at this!
Someone else other than the prisoner took the chains off!
ZONE! Look at this!
wow. I love you brother. But this is prety sad.
That someone else would be Christ? Is this not what he did?
And why did you ignore the fact that the person had to chose to let him do it or not
now would you like to be serious??
U
Hi guys! I'm the OP. I have been following the thread closely for the past two weeks, researching your positions, and searching the scriptures.
I have come to the conclusion that: I don't care.
(don't take that as harsh or sarcastic. I am very serious, and this is my official position)
God did not reveal His process within scripture, and He doesn't need me to understand it for salvation, or to grow in spiritual maturity.
I know I have grown so much in this study, and I thank you guys for helping out so much.
God bless all of you!
I have come to the conclusion that: I don't care.
(don't take that as harsh or sarcastic. I am very serious, and this is my official position)
God did not reveal His process within scripture, and He doesn't need me to understand it for salvation, or to grow in spiritual maturity.
I know I have grown so much in this study, and I thank you guys for helping out so much.
God bless all of you!