Grace = Salvation.

Cobus · Oct 5, 2013

The GRACE OF GOD =SALVATION!

Salvation is God’s SPESIFIC METHOD to save a sinner. First thing to realize is: YOU DONOT SAVE YOURSELF, GOD saves you. And here is a short version of how HE DOESSALVATION.

Salvationis the most POWERFUL ACT God has EVER done on earth. When God saves a singleman, look what God did to save the man, and from what God saved him.

Firstly we have to know: God had to sacrifice a righteous Son as anoffering for the sin of the man. Very expensive offering! That is why Godsays... Ye arebought with a price; be not ye the servants of men.(All men Godmake clean He cleanse to be servants of Christ!) And He PAID for there FREEDOM!

Secondly, we have to realize how effective this salvation is: Howeffectively God SEPERATES the saved from the unsaved... God calls it SANTIFY...To PURIFY or MAKE HOLY the SAVED! So the ones GOD does save are made holy andtherefore FREEMEN.... For he that is called inthe Lord, being a servant, is the Lord'sfreeman: likewise also he that is called, beingfree, isChrist's servant

Lookat the difference..... One man is the servant of MEN, and one man is the servantof CHRIST! This is what we see CLEARLY in the SAVED and the UNSAVED.... One issaved to be a servant of Christ and the other is unsaved to be the servant ofmen.

Weare not going to study what servants of men does... it is very easy to see...they are sinners.... All sin is serving MEN! Sanctification from God is to makeHOLY.... there is NO SIN IN HOLINESS... one sin makes something that is holy:UNHOLY! So to unholy something, SIN HAS TO BE MADE PART OF THE HOLY THING!

Andto make something of sin HOLY God thought it wise to SACRIFICE HIS SON, andMAKE FREE the man HE SAVES... So God save from the penalty of sin. That is theblood part of HIS SACRIFICE! But what about the SET FREE or MAKE FREE! Jesuswas sent to get us clean, but was that the only reason He was sent? Nope! Healso brought us a NEW COVENANT! A NEW DEAL on the table from God to us...

God says, If the Holy Spirit comes HE will reprove the world of threethings, not one but THREE... And when he is come, hewill reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
These arethe three things, SIN, RIGHTEOUSNESS and JUDGEMENT... And this is why..

Joh 16:9Of sin, because they believe not on me;
Please note that the Holy Spirit reprove usof sin because we do not BELIEVE ON JESUS! Is this true? That the Holy Spiritwill reprove us of sin AS LONG AS WE BELIEVE NOT ON HIM.When will the HolySpirit start to reprove us of righteousness? Will He start to reprove ofrighteousness while we still sin and do not believe on Him? Nope the holySpirit will not start LESSON two, if we do not adhere to lesson ONE!

No person will even start to repent withouBELIEVING TO REPENT! And it is JESUS that wants us to REPENT! Jesus said thathe came so whosoever shall BELIVE ON HIM (if you do not, the Holy Spirit willREPROVE YOU OF SIN) but if you DO BELIEVE ON HIM YOU WILL NOT SIN, AND YOU WILLNOT PERISH. Then the Holy Spirit will reprove you of righteousness, NOT SIN butRIGHTEOUSNESS... because you believe on Jesus, He will now lead you to DO AS HEWILLS, To KEEP his Word...And he will LEAD you in Truth, becasue you see HIMNOT. Joh16:10Of righteousness,because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

When you now KNOW the Truth you will also LIVE the Truth and the final stage ofSalvation will be completed in you... The JUDGMENT .... The rerove of JUDGMENT.God says we should .... Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteousjudgment. .... How can a personthat still sin, judge with a righteous judgment if he had not recieved thereprove of righteousness? And believe me ONLY the people that BELIEVE ON JESUSto the level HE IS SATTISFIED with, will be reproved of righteousness.... OnlyJesus’ approved level of faith is rewarded with the TEACHING INRIGHTEOUSNESS.... And once the person knows and DOES Righteousness, theJUDGMENT in RIGHTEOUSNESS starts... Then the person will know the prince ofthis world, as Jesus did, and as Paul did, and the other apostles... They couldjudge NOT according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment... Afulfilled Godly man can judge a righteous judgment. They know the price of thisworld and what his judgement is... It isalready done... Sin that leads not to death and sin that do.... Who can judgeif it is in one person a sin to death and in another a sin not to death....Only the RIGHTEOUS can judge that! For the simple reason the prince of thisworld is already judged....
Joh 16:11Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

p_rehbein · Oct 5, 2013

Good thoughts there, however, I would add just a thought of my own. In that a "servant" can not be an "heir" to the Promise. Only a child can. Now, this may be just semantics, but I thank God that the precious blood of Jesus Christ made me worthy to be a "child" of God, and an "heir" to the Promise...........

Matthew 12:48) But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
49 .) And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
50 .) For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

John 15:12) This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
13 .) Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
14 .) Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
15 .) Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

.......anyway, as I said, this may just be semantics, but it's important to me............

Cobus · Oct 5, 2013

I AGREE God said the servant would not remain but the SON DOES... So we are servants before we ARE BROTHERS... Jesus said HE WILL NOT BE ASHAMED TO CALL US BRETHREN.... Has to be because we were FAITHFUL SEVANTS FIRST!

Careen · Oct 5, 2013

It's true ! WE BELIEVE BY HIS GRACE !!!

Cobus · Oct 5, 2013

WE BELIEVE... One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is... FAITH... 1 Cor 12:9...To another faith by the same Spirit

I wonder would any person receive any other of the eight gifts WITHOUT FAITH... Faith is BELIEVE is it not? If I say I believe, no matter what I believe, does Jesus have the final say I have or have not... I remember the Scripture where His disciples were with Him and He said to them... If you had faith the size of a mustard seed, you would... And amazing miricles were described...And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.
Mat 17:19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?
Mat 17:20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

I wonder if we go to Jesus and ask Him wbout our state of affairs... what would His answer be?
Who here recons he has faith greater than a mustard seed?

I believe that when the Holy Spirit is ginen to a person as an indwelling Spirit, He comes with the gift/s of that person. And He gives as HE PLEASES...

Faith has to be maybe the only COMMON gift to all believers! Should we believe in HIS GRACE or IN HIM. Is Jesus more than GRACE? Or is GRACE more than HIM? Or is the BELIEVE part already grace to BELIEVE IN HIM?

We have to get this straight, because i think God's Grace is being RAPED by sinners! Did Paul not say... That we CAN RECEIVE THE GRACE IN VAIN.... WOW! Even some might received grace IN VAIN?

So here is my suggestion... receive grace in a fashion that the GRACE of GOD will turn into GLORY OF GOD... If the grace you receive turn into GLORY FOR GOD, it was NOT received in vain... If God is NEVER glorified by the GRACE HE GAVE YOU, you are one that received grace in vain...

But NOT the receive of the Holy Spirit, that is the GLORY of GRACE... Grace that saves, bring HOLY SPIRIT!

crossnote · Oct 5, 2013

Cobus said:

We first become sons before our service is acceptable in His sight ...otherwise they arr as filthy rags.

JDecree · Oct 5, 2013

Am I the only one who notices the underlying message of every one of your posts is that once TRULY saved, we no longer sin(as in never ever)? Anyone else seeing that or just me? Bueller?

Do you mind if I ask you 2 questions Cobus(I am curious if/how you will respond)?

1. Do you ever literally sin?

2. Are you going to be in God's Kingdom when it is complete and present?

I'm sure you will get these questions a lot.

crossnote · Oct 5, 2013

JDecree said:

Am I the only one who notices the underlying message of every one of your posts is that once TRULY saved, we no longer sin(as in never ever)? Anyone else seeing that or just me? Bueller?

Do you mind if I ask you 2 questions Cobus(I am curious if/how you will respond)?

1. Do you ever literally sin?

2. Are you going to be in God's Kingdom when it is complete and present?

I'm sure you will get these questions a lot.

I think we all have noticed. Have fun trying to. Convince him.

JDecree · Oct 5, 2013

Actually I just read your post in the other thread. You dont sin.

I saw you came into the chat about a month and a half ago saying you had some experience where suddenly you were filled with the Spirit and now after decades you finally got it. You no longer sin. You are now one of the few who will be saved. And if your experience is legit, then it truly is FEW who will be saved. We are talking probably much less than one million people alive today who are truly Christian.

The rest of us are just "LORD, LORD" people. Decieved. Hopeless. Un-elect. There to fulfill the scriptures, nothing more. Everyone you know and everyone I know is going to perish. We cant force God to save us, and we obviously dont know how to be saved or we would be.

Do you disagree? I wish I could.

JDecree · Oct 5, 2013

crossnote said:

I already know I cant. It is me who is looking for convincing, either way it goes(sinlessness or otherwise). I cant rest.

weakness · Oct 5, 2013

I think Romans 7 has some bearing on the subject also.

Cobus · Oct 5, 2013

JDecree said:

JDecree, I will answer with the Word of God, but I NEVER said I was saved. What I did say is, that I was tormented by an evil spirit for a great deal in my life, but that the "saved" people I knew could not help, me. And THAT was very sad for me. I asked for help from MANY "Christians" and like Jesus said to his disciples.... it was due to their LACK OF FAITH.... that they did not get the evil spirit out of the young man.

Here is my dilema, will I be able to command an evil spirit out of another person, WITHOUT FAITH in God? And how can I as an evil spirit posessed, chase out another evil spirit from another person? Just this one little fact, that one evil spirit in me, makes me UNHOLY. Fact! Why can a deacon/evangelist in the Bible heal a whole city, but even more impressive, CLEANSE the whole city of evil spirits? And I have one evil spirit, but the WHOLE CHRISTIAN NATION I asked for help fails to get him out.

I just thank the Lord that He still hear a suffering soul cru out to Him. I am HEAVY LADEN, but I know my REST is in Christ. JDecree, will I EVER be perfect (sinless) as you put it, if I do not believe in PERFECTION? If I have this half minded half hearted idea, that maybe God do save to perfection... Will this halfhearted attempt to attain God's salvation EVER bting God so far as to give me HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS?

May I answer you with TWO SCRIPTURES... Straight from the Bible and this should answer Crossnotes as well.... 1. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
As servants we OBEY UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS.. NOT AS CHILDREN... But then how many reckon they are God's children but they NEVER SERVED UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS....

And here is the BIG problem we are going to have JDECREE.... You obviously saw me sin, or why the question if I EVER sin... So even if I say YES I NEVER SIN, OR NO I NEVER SIN, you will use my answer as SIN.... But here is YOUR problem by asking the question.... If you did see me sin, did you pray for me and the sin I committed? Or did you decide that you SHOULD NOT PRAY FOR ME FOR THE SIN I COMMITTED IS UNTO DEATH! There is NO SALVATION for me. 2. If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

JDecree, I am so sick of sin and evil, I wonder if there is a God that can deliver us from evil? Is there a God powerful enough to SEPERATE a person from ALL temptations in this world.... Is there a God that sees how one man HUNGER and THIRST for RIGHTEOUSNESS? A man so tired of sin, that he does not want to be here in this evil world? Is there a God that CAN FILL this man with RIGHTEOUSNESS... Obviously only the righteousness of GOD will fill this man?

JDecree, can God give a man HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS? Can God make a man to be as RIGHTEOUS AS HE IS RIGHTEOUS... Because ALL SIN is UNRIGHTEOUSNESS... Here is Three Scriptures to consider. Please do NOT BLAME ME for these Scriptures, I only believe what God says in these Scriptures. I DID NOT WRITE THEM, OR DID I? If I TRULY BELIEVE what I TYPE to you, DID I or DID I NOT WRITE THIS TO YOU?

1. Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
2. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
3. The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
My friend JDecree, ALL I ask is for God to make me one of the GODLY that HE KNOWETH to deliver OUT OF TEMPTATION, then I KNOW I CANNOT SIN! How can I sin if the POWERFUL GOD DELIVERED ME OUT OF TEMPTATION, AND THE WICKET ONE TOUCHETH ME NOT?

THAT , OR FOR THIS REASON , that GOD DELIVERED THEM FROM TEMPTATION, is this ONE Scripture SO TRUE....
Three following verses to show just HOW SEPERATTED the GOLDY and the SINNERS are!
All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
1Jn 5:19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

Are you one of the ones that KNOWS this, or do you not know that whosoever is BORN OF GOD SINNETH NOT! I know this, but if I know this, it does not make me one of the LAST VERSE.... I only BELIEVE this, but whether is happened for me or not, what CAN I DO TO GET THIS?

Only what God LEADS me to do.... OBEY HIM, and I am doing that RIGHT NOW! I sit here typing to you with the MOST SELFISH REASON EVER..... I WANT GOD TO MAKE ME BORN OF HIM! Oh may HE SEE MY HUNGER AND THIRST FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS....

LORD Bless my friend JDECREE with a MESSAGE FROM YOU TO ME, AMEN!

JDecree · Oct 5, 2013

Thank you for getting back to me.

Cobus said:

Thank you for being honest. I have asked many that believe in perfection if they believe they are saved and few answer because they know they arent. I ask it because I want to know if we can ever know we are saved. Some of them claim to be perfect(or closer to perfect than most) so assuming they ARE that way, I want to know if there is ever a time where we can have assurance.

Cobus said:

I didnt ask it to trap you like I'm sure many do(and I admit to doing in the past). No, I myself am really uncertain of my salvation and confused about basically all of the gospel and what we must do to be saved that almost any possibility is on the table. I never saw you sin that I know of. I am simply curious. If perfect is possible, WHERE ARE THESE PEOPLE? Honest question. Still, no matter what you answered could not prove it or disprove it so I dont really know why I asked.

Cobus said:

I dont understand what you meant by the underlined part here, can you please clarify?

I am trying to reconcile the scriptures. On the one hand you have perfection: Those who do such things will not inherit the Kingdom. A Christian sins not. Having a form of godliness but denying the power thereof. Repent or I will remove my candlestick. Few shall be saved. Depart from me ye worker of iniquity. On the other hand you have grace: if we do sin we have an advocate, assurance of salvation, great joy, peace with God, it is no longer I that sin but sin that is in me, speaking of saved in the present tense, no condemnation for them who are in Christ, not of works lest any man should boast...I cant see how it all fits together...

Some doctrines make a lot of it fit together, but there are always questions. Even with the idea of perfection there are questions. Sure, you posted a lot of scriptures that seem pretty clear and plain to understand on their own. And I could find just as many that suggest the opposite and around and around we would go.

I just know this. God, through scripture has set a VERY VERY high standard and I dont match up. Some say that is normal, others say it means I am lost. The scripture seems to say both as well. Only God can answer this.

I think I see now you neither claim to be perfect or saved and that you see them both as the same thing. I am glad to understand that now. It has been difficult from seeing your posts around the forums to discern that.

Thank you for your time and care my friend

May we ALL have the answers
May we ALL know Christ like a friend, king, and God
May we ALL be perfect in whatever means the LORD desires
May the whole world be saved, so that His name would be exalted
In Jesus' Holy name
AMEN

Cobus · Oct 6, 2013

JDecree! With you I would GLADLY walk a mile or TWO as the word says I should.... Here is the answer to your question///
Remember when Jesus told His disciples what BEING SAVED means, they ALSO asked... WHO WILL BE SAVED,,, Jesus said, it is impossible for man, but For GOD ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE...

I have a few Ideas how god saves us, but I am VERY sure what A saved person looks like... god just gives too many Scripture on this fact. How god saves us is also quite simple, but DEEP if He does not reveal it to you...

I shared this with a person that has touble to repent from some sin... It is about the Scripture where Jesus says... NO ONE comes to the Father except THROUGH Him (Christ Jesus) but then He ADDS... and no one comes to HIM (Christ Jesus) if the FATHER does not draw him....

This confused the disciples but they did not understand how the Holy Spirit works.... They did not have the Holy Spirit that REPROOVE of sin YET! If we sin we feel very remorse of the sin... WHY? because the Holy Spirit is DRAWING us to Christ Jesus to be purified and saved from that sin.... Father DRAWS us when we sin to the SON. And once we PASSED THROUGH the SON, we are with the Father. It is like HE DREW us RIGHT THROUGH CHRIST JESUS TO BE IN HIM WHEN HE IS FINISHED..

Was that not what Jesus asked the Father to do in John 17. YES it was.... That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us:

Let me ask you this.... If we ARE made ONE IN THE FATHER AND THE SON, will we be perfect or not? I say nothing but PERFECT! Like Jesus says two verses further on.... PERFECTLY ONE! My friend I KNOW God will hear and give this to His Son! God will do as Jesus asked in John 17, and because Jesus asked this, it is a gaurentee to the SAVED... WOW! God is awesome! I just hope the two of us will be found IN HIM!

You ask where is the perfect people.... Well Acts 8 might give some clues, but this verse says it all... For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. I wonder what God would HIDE THEM FROM? Or is the answeer GOD KNOWS TO DELIVER THE GODLY OUT OF TEMPTATIONS... I wonder if we would not try to trick a Righteous Perfect man into sin? Just to say... THERE YOU HYPOCRATE YOU JUST SINNED! It is like sinners find comfort in another that is closer to God when they also sin! Shame! If they only know.... If their righteousness is not more than the Pharisee they will not make it.... And only GOD'S righteousness is more than the Pharisee... So if we do not reach god's righteousness, we FAILED!

But here is the GOOD news, it is God's Job to give us that righteousness... And HE DOES SO WITH BORN OF GOD! Rebirth...

I believe REBIRTH and SALVATION COMPLETE is the SAME FINAL STEP. God BAPTIZING, FILLING and IMPLANTING CHRIST JESUS INTO US, and US INTO HIM... As easy as that... And how will we know we are saved.... The PEACE and REST we will experience.... Look at Stephen when they stoned him, look at Paul when they strapped him five times, stoned him and left him for dead.... NEVER STRESSING... oh the others aroung him stressed, but not they....

Jesus also says this... He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
He that believeth... Believe what.. Jesus says believe in the WORDS of the WORD... and is BAPTIZED shall be saved... Baptized with what? Living WATERS... The WORD OF GOD. So it looks like the answers are the one I give you, for ALL my doctrine comes from the WORD...

JDecree if you do not understand what I am trying to convey, PLEASE ask, I will answer with Truth! God's Word is Truth!

Here is my suggestion, use some quiet time and MANY thoughts on John 17 and 1 John 3... Read the two chapters, they TAKE PERFECT HANDS and explain God's Will for HIS people!

Enjoy the read and i pray god REVEAL Scripture for you! Amen!

JDecree · Oct 6, 2013

Hi Cobus,

Off the bat I know this might come off sounding like I am debating you in an attempt to win or whatever but I'm not. Honest questions again. Lets figure this thing out, with God's help, God willing.

Cobus said:

So you are saying even if a person has the HOLY Spirit of God in them, they are not saved? Havent you said elsewhere that if God dwells in you, you can't sin?
(Rom 8:9) But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
This more than implies that if you have the Spirit of Christ dwelling in you, you belong to Him. You are in the Spirit, so you are now able to please God. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God are the Sons of God.

Cobus said:

Agreed, the issue is WHEN are we promised to be perfect? When is that said to be fulfilled? I know that it certainly will be when our "vile bodies" will be changed and we will be like the angels and we will see Him like He is because we are like Him. I know that for a fact. However you believe this perfection must come sooner than that. While we are yet here living in this awful world. I dont know.

Cobus said:

So you think these elect few, wherever they are, must be hidden from us because we are sinners and might tempt them to sin? But they cant sin...and they are also commanded to preach the gospel to the sinners, not doing so would be a sin. So again, where are these people?

Cobus said:

I still didnt get clarification on your "OR DID I?(write these scriptures)." I am asking just to be sure this isnt something serious if you get what I mean...

Cobus said:

Thank you for the prayer

Cobus · Oct 7, 2013

Ok Jdecree thank God the bible has the answers....

Let me go step b step and then the clarification on the OR DID I, will also come...

Here is the thing... The SPIRIT LEADS before HE FILLS... Get that? JEsus said... if a person does not take up his cross AND FOLLOW me he cannot be the disciple of Jesus! So now we know THE SPIRIT OF JESUS, CHRIST JESUS will do the LEADING, and who does the FOLLOWING... The SONS OF GOD!

Oh there will be some that will follow for a while and some that will folloe until they are ALMOST there, but then they (the ones that decide this in not for them) just FALL AWAY. But GOD KNOWS who will be His sons even before the earth was made, you have to remember that.... The ones that will be BORN of GOD, God knew FOREVER! That is why God says.. the ones who are sanctified (being made holy) and the One that does the sanctification, ARE ALL OUT OF ONE!...
Heb 2:11. For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

The children of God was KNOWN to God even before they lived as sinners.... But THEY DID NOT KNOW IT AND THEY ALSO DID NOT KNOW GOD IN THEIR SINFUL LIFE.... but that will change... They will ENDURE, or FOLLOW ALL THE WAY, or PERSEVERE until the END... the END OF WHAT? The END of JESUS LEADING, LED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT... Then they will BE BAPTIZED.

Ok but here is the thing.... While they are being LEAD by the Spirit, they will ALREADY be doing things in Truth. IN HIS NAME! His Name is the TRUTH (THE WORD OF GOD) These TRUTH PEOPLE will be hated for their TRUTH FAITHFULNESS... And if THEY give the TRUTH THEY RECEIVE along the way, will the people (the world) not HATE them for it. YES!

I have received some TRUTH, and some people LOVE it as FOOD FOR SPIRIT, and others HATE it as it SPOILS THEIR FALSE DOCTRINE... It is this PERFECTION TEACHING, and the CANNOT SIN IN 1 John 3. And here is the thing... God gave it to me to SHARE... So now I share and I get NAILED for it so often....

God gave me the TRUTH about salvation, His salvation is 100% not 99%. God saves a person until the SPIRIT OF GOD does not LEAD, but LIVES IN THE PERSON and DOES ALL in that person. But ALONG THE WAY TO RIGHTEOUSNESS, the TRUTH will come from that person, as HE OBEYS God in TRUTH TO Righteousness...

Let me say it as good as I can muster in my limited English.... When God calls us, He DRAWS us from our wondering ways. but we are BABIES in Truth. God leads us IN TRUTH, (Jeuss is the Truth) on a NARROW WAY (Jesus is the WAY) to a NEW LIFE (Jesus is the new life). And ALL these are done RIGHT HERE ON EARTH.... We will live a righteous HOLY PERFECT LIFE right here on earth when GOD IMPLANTS CHRIST JESUS INTO US...But remember the flesh does not gain this HOLINESS FOREVER, onlt the soul and the spirit of all HOLY PEOPLE DOES, they will RECIEVE their NON-ROTTING vessels that they will bein only AFTER those vessels are given when Jesus comes again ON THE CLOUDS... When the FLESH Body of Jesus returns, BOTH JESUS IN THE FLESH and the HOLY SPIRIT PEOPLE will be TRANSFORMED TO THEIR EVERLASTING GLORIOUS BODIES, the GLORIOUS SPIRIT AND SOUL ARE ALREADY DONE AND FINISHED...

I see it as a FERN TREE... God wants us to STAY ON THE PERFECT UPRIGHT TRUNK of the tree, When He calles us we are on some FAR REACHING BOTTOM branch. Then we return to the trunk and follows Jesus up the trunk, only to wonder off in the slightly shorter branch just above the first branch. Then God draws us back to the trunk and we follow Jesus up the trunk again, only to wonder off in the third set of branches also a biut shorter that the second group. By now some realize that God is leading us to the TIP OF THE TREE... that ONE NARRO LITTLE TIP RIGHT AT THE TOP OF THE TREE. That ONE little NO SIDE BRANCH PART OF THE TREE. That is where God wanrts us when Jesus PRESENT us to God... without spot of wrinkle, and GOD SEALS, BLESS AND FOREVER MAKE HOLY THAT LITTLE FINAL OBEDIENCE TO THE FAITH...BORN OF GOD HAPPENS THERE!!! FILLING OF HOLY SPIRIT HAPPENS THERE...

Now that the TREE was FINISHED, God can use the COMPLETE PERSON to be SENT AS CHRIST JESUS WAS SENT... God will not REMOVE the sent HOLY MAN, from the earth, but GOD WILL KEEP THEM FROM EVIL.... Fantastic! If God keeps something from evil, EVIL CANNOT TOUCH THEM... You decide how God KEEP THEM FROM EVIL... I think I know! And if I think correct, I want to be MORE IN THAT PROTECTION that I was BEFORE!!!! A bit DEEP but I will share if you want.

So if God gave me the Truth about this.... And HE WROTE it but I believe it so that I will write it to every person God leads me to share with, DID I SHARE MY BELIEFS WITH YOU THEN? Is it maybe a liitle peace of me that is PURE already that shares it with you... And is not our COMPLETE PURE LIFE the GOD WE FOLLOW?

JDecree, i think you are propably the first person on CC that starts to GET IT! I think you already know I am NOT LYING. And the Truth I share is NOT MINE but God's. I would challange any poerson here to SHOW ME WHERE I LIED! Show me ANYTHING I said that is NOT TRUE, and I will proof from God's Word's that what I say, is ALL CONFIRMED in HIS SCRIPTURE.

Imagine this.... Jesus leads on a NARROW WAY TO PERFECTION, RIGHT HERE ON EARTH... but because we are SO READY TO SIN... God does this for us.... He LEADS in the FRONT, but HE ALSO SPEAKS BEHIND us.... Jesus LEADS in the FRONT, and GOD SPEAKS IN THE BACK...

Scripture.... Take up your CROSS AND FOLLOW ME... MAT 16:24... and Isiah 30:21... And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left.

Would that not be quite a BLESSIN to have God's urgency HELPING and ASSISTING us to REACH HIS GOAL... WOW!

JDecree ask if you want me to open more so you can have an OPEN HEART to judge and to help along HIS WAY to HIM. I am an OPEN book and God knows that!

Bookends · Oct 7, 2013

Yes Cobus, God does do it, or rather already DID it, but not by the means you think which is by making perfect sinless Christ carbon copies. He did by:

Romans 8
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, [SUP]4 [/SUP]that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

This is how God did/does it, read the rest of Romans 8 see the results of one accepting the above by grace through faith in Christ's sacrifice alone.

Is as if the old man, the flesh, is already dead in God's eyes, even though our flesh may desire evil and pull us out of the Spirit, but our spirit knows this thus we look once again to God and thank Him for His deliverance. It won't be until the resurrection of our bodies when our physical fleshly sinful bodies will be fully and finally dealt with (Romans 8:21-26). If what you say is true, then the HS would have no reason to groan and pray for us (Romans 8:26) May God give you understanding in Romans 7 and 8.

But I know I'm just beating the drum with you, and I'm out of time, so I'll stop here.

Cobus · Oct 7, 2013

BOOKIE, good day my friend... Oh why can't we come to some agreement... At least on one chapter. so you qouted roman 8 let us do Romans 8 then.

Bookie let us do it as it is written, and if I say ANYTHING that is not 100% provable in God's Word I will NEVER SAY ANYTHING AGAIN! I will quite and NEVER type another word again....

Before we read ROMANS 8, you have to know this.... ALL who are in Christ is PERFECTLY ONE! John 17... I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one;... Bookie if you do not know this there is no use continuing...

IN CHRIST ALL ARE PERFECTLY ONE! Not God sees them as ONE they ARE PERFECTLY ONE!!!! Let us not RAPE the Word of GOD. Take it as it is written or do not take it at all!

So here is the first thing you have to know.... FOR THOSE IN CHRIST IS PERFECTLY ONE!!!!

The SECOND thing we have to know is.... 1 John 3... And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
So If Jeus did come to TAKE AWAY MY SIN, and IN HIM IS NO SIN... do you think He took my sin AWAY before HE ALLOWED ME INTO HIM? Now, if Jesus TAKE AWAY my sin, and I WANTED HIM TO TAKE IT AWAY, do you think THERE IS A STUPID MAN THAT WOULD WANT TO GO BACK TO SIN AFTER THIS? I AM NOT THAT STUPID, AS I KNOW HOW BAD SIN WAS FOR ME... And neither is ANY ONE WHO IS IN CHRIST... If they ever return to the sin AFTER JESUS TOOK IT AWAY and PUT THEM IN HIM, PERFECTLY IN HIM... It would be like a DOG RETURNING TO HIS VOMIT... HAH!!!

Romans 8:1...There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Do we even have to continue, does this ONE VERSE not say it all?

Just look what is said here.... Them that are IN CHRIST! If there is NO SIN IN CHRIST, HOW CAN THEY DO SIN IF THERE IS NONE.. If HE took away their sin how can they do what GOD TOOK AWAY? ....
And look GOD says those that ARE IN CHRIST DO NOT WALK AFTER THE FLESH.... How can they? They WALK AFTER THE SPIRIT OF GOD! The Spirit of GOD CANNOT DO SIN... IN HIM IS NO SIN!
Should we continue with Romans. Or did you get Romans 8 in a wink? You can continue but the rest is just more detail on how God UNITE the ones that STOPS walking after flesh in Christ to be PERFECTLY one IN HIM. NOT IN THEM OLD SELVES... IN HIM!
To say that there is a SINGLE sin in Christ, or a SINGLE sinner still walking after the flesh IN CHRIST,... would make the WHOLE LUMP IN CHRIST UNHOLY... What would make you think that God does not know when HE HAS MADE A PERSON HOLY, that that person will sin again, AFTER GOD HAD PUT HIM IN THE BODY OF CHRIST... And worse... THAT GOD HAD PUT CHRIST IN THAT PERSON?
Please do not miss this.... If you are IN CHRIST, HE IS ALSO IN YOU... WHERE IS SIN, and WHERE IS THE TEMPTER THAT CAUSE SIN? How can the TEMPTER be in CHRIST, if only the ones that WALKS AFTER THE SPIRIT is in Christ...
Sin is only a sign that we need to MORTIFY MORE OF THE FLESH… But those IN CHRIST, already has the NEW LIFE to walk AFTER THE SPIRIT, NEVER AFTER FLESH…. The FLESH IS DEAD TO SIN!

JDecree · Oct 7, 2013

Hi Cobus,

Cobus said:

So you believe the end we are to endure until is not death or the second coming? And then you are baptized in the Holy Spirit? Peter was baptized in the Holy Spirit, yet we have an account of him sinning. Is that not impossible? My understanding is he who endures to the end shall be saved is referring to fighting that good fight of faith and staying faithful until the end of your time. Can you show me some scripture that defines the 'end' to be something other than death/Christ's return?

Cobus said:

That may be so. However persecution does not confirm that things we teach are true. Do not take people's opposition to your understanding of doctrine as proof that you have the full truth. That is dangerous.

Cobus said:

Jesus' body of flesh will be transformed into an everlasting body? I've never heard that before.

Cobus said:

Now I'm even more confused...Jesus presents us Holy and blameless(sinless) before God and THEN we become born again and filled(baptized) with the Holy Spirit? What about all of the accounts of people being filled in the book of Acts and such? They believed and repented and BAM, right on the spot they recieved the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Did Jesus present them to God literally perfect right then and there? Again I think the issue is WHEN this 'presenting' happens...when does Jesus present us before the Father? You say He does so in this life IF we are made perfect first in order to be made perfect...I dont get it. Be perfect in order to be made perfect....?

Cobus said:

I am starting to get what you believe, yes.

Cobus said:

I dont think you are lying. I know you believe what you are saying 100%. I believe a lie is defined as KNOWING something is false and yet speaking it anyway. False witness. You arent guilty of that.

Cobus said:

Of course the scripture you quote is true, but is our understanding of it correct?

Thanks again

RaneyMarie · Oct 7, 2013

Now I'm even more confused...Jesus presents us Holy and blameless(sinless) before God and THEN we become born again and filled(baptized) with the Holy Spirit? What about all of the accounts of people being filled in the book of Acts and such? They believed and repented and BAM, right on the spot they recieved the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Did Jesus present them to God literally perfect right then and there? Again I think the issue is WHEN this 'presenting' happens...when does Jesus present us before the Father? You say He does so in this life IF we are made perfect first in order to be made perfect...I dont get it. Be perfect in order to be made perfect....?

We are not perfect yet when you repent and are baptized you are made clean, you have made your heart ready to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Even after receiving the Holy Ghost you must strive daily for perfection because only God is perfect. The Holy Ghost gives us the power to accomplish that. We still must follow after God's commandments which are not grievous. It is a continued daily renewing of our minds. You have to allow the Holy Ghost to change you and teach you, you have to learn to communicate daily with God, realize that only after you relinquish your will to God's will can you know peace. It is very much a one day at a time, with daily study of His word, keeping God first and foremost in your life. Don't be focused on others faults, look to Jesus as the one with all the answers to every problem you might encounter. Be a bold witness to others, that is one of the powers the Holy Ghosts gives you. When needed discuss your problems with your pastor for they watch for your soul. (Hebrews 13:17 KJV)

Here are some scripture that helps explain the salvation plan Jesus gave us:

" I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." Luke 13:3 (KJV)

" For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death." 2 Corinthians 7:10 (KJV)

"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." Mark 16:16 (KJV)

"Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." John 3:5 (KJV)

"For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence." Acts 1:5 (KJV)

"Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life." Romans 6:4 (KJV)

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:" Matthew 28:19 (KJV)

"Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole." Acts 4:10 (KJV)

"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:12 (KJV)

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call." Acts 2:38-39 (KJV)

Repent= saying your sorry and ask for forgiveness then TURN AWAY from sin (Death, a death of an old life/of sin)
*If you are really sorry and turn away from sin, resolving never to do those things again, you are ready for baptism.
Baptism= full water immersion (Burial, you are buried with Christ, born again of the water)
*Baptism comes from the Greek word baptizo, which means to dip, plunge, immerse, or be overwhelmed.
Holy Ghost= Baptism of the Holy Ghost, The Comforter, Spirit of Truth (Resurrection, you are now born again of the Spirit)
*The baptism of the Holy Ghost, with the evidence of speaking other tongues, identifies us with Christ in His resurrection. (Romans 6:5 & Romans 8:11 KJV)

After following the steps of salvation (Death, Burial, & Resurrection) that Jesus gave us we are to strive for perfection, we are given the tools to accomplish that by the infilling of the Holy Ghost, and with the Holy Ghost we have the power to overcome the world as Jesus did. It is evident that man must become holy in order to attain fellowship with God. Holiness is a condition of the heart. It is a sum total of our attitudes and consecrations toward God. Therefore we must take heed of our attitudes and motives as we strive to be holy. We must manifest Christ-like attitudes.
*Just as Jesus Christ experienced death, burial, and resurrection in providing our salvation, we experience a type of death, burial, and resurrection in receiving salvation through the steps of repentance, baptism in Jesus name, and the infilling of the Holy Ghost. We are "in Christ" (1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV) and Christ is "in us" (Colossians 1:27 KJV). What a glorious privilege to know the truth!

Thank you for taking the time to read and I hope bringing forth these scriptures can help bring some understanding.
Take Care and God Bless!

Grace = Salvation.

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Careen

Guest

Banned

Senior Member

JDecree

Guest

Senior Member

JDecree

Guest

JDecree

Guest

weakness

Guest

Banned

JDecree

Guest

Banned

JDecree

Guest

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

JDecree

Guest

RaneyMarie

Guest