Grace through faith AND the law dont mix?

[Grace777x70]

Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. Romans 8:7


So if sin originates from the spirit within man, if the scriptures teach that the flesh without the spirit is dead then where does the spirit within man originate from? the dust, the water or the air? or does the spirit originate from Christ?

Col 1:15-17

Good one..made me think of this scripture below in Romans 8:10.

The spirit has life because it has Christ's righteousness in it. We are one with Christ.

We know the inner man in Christ was created in righteousness and holiness . Eph. 4:24

Romans 8:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

 

[Wall]

Grace is for salvation.

We need grace, because we can not live up to Gods standard of obedience.

Obedience comes through faith.

GALATIANS 3 [23] But BEFORE FAITH CAME, WE WERE KEPT UNDER THE LAW, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. [24] WHEREFORE THE LAW WAS OUR SCHOOLMASTER TO BRING US UNTO CHRIST, THAT WE MIGHT BE JUSTIFIED BY FAITH. [25] But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. [26] For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus


Before faith came to each and everyone of us, we are under the law {the 10 commandments, the schoolmaster}. So, according to this scripture you are kept under the law of the 10 commandments (the schoolmaster) until you are justified by faith in Christ. No shortcuts. Then there is no condemnation. After we have been brought to faith in Christ, do we then make void the law or are we to still be keeping Gods law?

ROMANS 3 [30] Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. [31] DO WE THEN MAKE VOID THE LAW THROUGH FAITH? GOD FORBID: yea, we establish the law.

Just because we have attained faith through the Word are we now to “do away” with Gods 10 commandments? GOD FORBID!

REV. 14 [12] Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS of God, and THE FAITH OF JESUS.

Faith and the commandments. The “Many” will say you cant mix faith and the law. Show them Rev.14

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

its ok. I am sorry, It is just so many people do not try to figure out what someone else is saying, and just respond blindly. I do not want to do that, If I do not understand, I would rather sound stupid and ask a question then just respond blindly.

Forgive me sis

No problem EG, I was just pointing out if someone uses the scripture no need going after the messenger of it (whether they sin or if they believe they do not) or whether they might believe themselves to be perfect or whether they dont believe that. This answer (concerning themselves) whether it might agree with your understanding (or not) would probably be neither here nor there (and besides the point) anyways. So it might be best just stick with the scripture presented and not make its validity (or supposed invalidity) dependent on the messenger of it (regardless of how someone might feel about the messenger) or how the messenger feels about themselves in the same.

Like if the person brings forward the verses on "cannot sin, cease from sin, sinneth not" etc (you know the ones) what typically follows is the examination of the messenger of it (by that I mean asking whether they continue to sin or not) as if the verse will be brought to nought, being dependent on the answer from the messenger (concerning themselves). It would really be irrelevant (and just their answer) which could be true or not but it wouldnt matter if it were true anyway, the argument must default onto the messenger (and that verse come to nothing, and on the basis of their word) because that is how it typically goes. The question itself just provides an avenue to divert away from the scripture presented and go after the messenger, and round and round we go (again) its a pitfall. Thats what I meant but I cant articulate myself well, and then I know that will just go round and round and more questions be introduced and you end up going somewhere you have no desire to go and it typically starts from a stupid question (which I know better not to ask) and I needed to catch myself and throw it into reverse there.

Thats all, ans I appologize if I was still unclear, no worries just blow me off (forget I said anything) its not too important, just something I observed, and wasnt getting why those sorts of questions are asked (thats all).

God bless

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. Romans 8:7


So if sin originates from the spirit within man, if the scriptures teach that the flesh without the spirit is dead then where does the spirit within man originate from? the dust, the water or the air? or does the spirit originate from Christ?

Col 1:15-17

I wasn't talking about the spirit of life from God, I was talking about the evil spirit that is at work in the world, and in all the children of disobedience.

Ephesians 2:2
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

 

[Zmouth]

in the beginning was the word. and the word was God..

How much more clearer can it get?

So in the beginning was the Word? Then where did the Spirit come from since the Word was with God. The Spirit has not ink and paper as you see written in the Bible.

 

[Wall]

No need to be snobbish, you have misunderstood. These commands are not to be saved, but are given to those who are ALREADY saved! You cannot PRODUCE a fruit of the Spirit, you can only bear fruit of the Spirit. The only way to do that is by having the Spirit indwelling you.

John 15:1-8

And how do you recieve the Spirit you speak of? Also found in John

JOHN 14 [15] If ye love me, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.[16] AND I WILL PRAY THE FATHER, AND HE SHALL GIVE YOU ANOTHER COMFORTER, that he may abide with you for ever;[17] Even THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.[18] I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.[19] Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.[20] At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.[21] HE THAT HATH MY COMMANDMENTS, AND KEEPETH THEM, HE IT IS THAT LOVETH ME: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I WILL LOVE HIM, AND WILL MANIFEST MYSELF TO HIM.

In order to receive the Holy Spirit we must first be keeping Gods 10 commandments. The 4th included. Thats what John 14{15-16} says. This truth is also found in verse {21}.

 

[jaybird88]

lol.. If there was no law we would not need saved, because we could not be condemned. so we agree here.

So, do we want to mock God and repent over and over and be resaved a thousand times in our lifetime?

or repent once, of all sin, and acknowledge you are a sinner, and will be until the day you die, and ask God for his mercy to save a sinner like you.

IMO we repent as many times needed but each and every time it should be real repentance and not empty prayers of forgiveness.
how can one live a Christ life and turn away from the law? Jesus taught to keep His commands and do the will of His Father, His Fathers will were those laws.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

IMO we repent as many times needed but each and every time it should be real repentance and not empty prayers of forgiveness.
how can one live a Christ life and turn away from the law? Jesus taught to keep His commands and do the will of His Father, His Fathers will were those laws.

Jesus said ALL of the law and prophets are continued in two laws.

Love God and your neighbor.

Should we do it Gods way? Or the religious way?

You can obey the law and still be unrighteous.. That's why the law can not help us. If can not show us how to be righteous.

it is dangerous to use the law to try to figure out how to live a righteous life.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So in the beginning was the Word? Then where did the Spirit come from since the Word was with God. The Spirit has not ink and paper as you see written in the Bible.

1. The word was God. not just with God.
2. The word is all about God.
3. The spirit is also God. that's why we can trust what he says.

 

[Zmouth]

I wasn't talking about the spirit of life from God, I was talking about the evil spirit that is at work in the world, and in all the children of disobedience.

Ephesians 2:2
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

For the life of the flesh is in the blood: Lev 17:11
For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life thereof: Lev. 17:14

Blood is the life of the flesh, see note below, yet in 1 John 5:8 it is written the following:

And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. And the one they agree in is what? the earth, or body of flesh who were formed of the dust of the ground.

It doesn't state that these three are one, but rather these three agree in one.

 

[jaybird88]

Jesus said ALL of the law and prophets are continued in two laws.
Love God and your neighbor.

Jesus said those 2 were above all others and all other laws were dependent on those 2.

Should we do it Gods way? Or the religious way?

Lords way every time

You can obey the law and still be unrighteous.. That's why the law can not help us. If can not show us how to be righteous.

it is dangerous to use the law to try to figure out how to live a righteous life.

i couldnt disagree more. the laws teach us how to live a in a way pleasing to the Lord. and i know few that follow the law thinking they are going to become righteous. we dont make that call, the Lord does. if one was truly living for the Lord they wouldnt be concerned with thoughts of how pleasing and righteous i must be in the eyes of the Lord.

 

[Wall]

Jesus said ALL of the law and prophets are continued in two laws.

Love God and your neighbor.

Should we do it Gods way? Or the religious way?

Gods way as found in His Word

MATT.22 [35] Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, [36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?[37] Jesus said unto him, THOU SHALT LOVE THE LORD THY GOD WITH ALL THY HEART, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.[38] This is the first and great commandment.[39] And the second is like unto it, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF.[40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Why do you believe that we no longer need keep Gods commandments because of what Jesus said in Matthew?

DEUT.6 [5] And THOU SHALT LOVE THE LORD THY GOD WITH ALL THINE HEART, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.[6] And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart [17] Ye shall diligently KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS of the LORD your God, and his testimonies, and his statutes, which he hath commanded thee.

Jesus was only quoting scriptures from the old testament. And as you can see in above scripture the way to love GOD is to keep diligently the commandments.

1JOHN 5 [2] By this we know that we love the children of God, WHEN WE LOVE GOD, AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS.[3] For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

And the new testament verifies the old testament as to how we are to show our love for God? In the new testament book of John. When we love God, we keep His commandments.

LEV.19 [17] Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.[18] Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF: I am the LORD.

Again (thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself) Jesus is quoting scripture from the old testament. Do you agree that the people who lived in old testament times were under the 10 commandments. Of course they were. So why when Jesus quotes old testament scripture do you think the 10 commandments are now done away with?

2JOHN1 [5] And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that WE LOVE ONE ANOTHER.[6] AND THIS IS LOVE, THAT WE WALK AFTER HIS COMMANDMENTS. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

In John, you can read how we are to love our neighbour according to the NEW TESTAMENT. It’s the same way that it says in the old testament. KEEP GODS 10 COMMANDMENTS. Jesus is the same today, yesterday and forever.

 

[ladylynn]

how does one repent their sins when there is no law to commit sins against?

The sin of 'unbelief' is the sin. The sin that says "I can do it apart from Jesus" is the sin. The sin that causes people to think something in them is able to "do" something to be worthy of God looking down and forgiving them is "the" sin.

It started in the garden. Man working independently from God to get what they want. All sin stems from that. Man working apart from God. Pride.

 

[Wall]

The sin of 'unbelief' is the sin.

Yeah, that can be found in Hebrews 3

HEBREWS 3 [12]Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you AN EVIL HEART OF UNBELIEF, in departing from the living God. [13] But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. [14] For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; [15] WHILE IT IS SAID, TO DAY IF YE WILL HEAR HIS VOICE, HARDEN NOT YOUR HEARTS, AS IN THE PROVOCATION. [16] For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came OUT OF EGYPT by Moses. [17] But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, WHOSE CARCASES FELL IN THE WILDERNESS? [18] And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? [19] So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief

.
Scripture above (out of Egypt - into the wilderness - those that believed not - destroyed them)
Scripture below (out of Egypt - into the wilderness - polluted HIS SABBATHS - destroyed them)

EZEK.20 [10] Wherefore I caused them to go forth OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT, and brought them INTO THE WILDERNESS. [11] And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them.[12] Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.[13] But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and MY SABBATHS THEY GREATLY POLLUTED: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them IN THE WILDERNESS, TO CONSUME THEM.

There it is. They were destroyed in the wilderness because they were not keeping Gods sabbath day. Dont walk with an evil heart of unbelief {Hebrews3v12}. Keep Gods sabbath day. Do you hear His voice?

 

[ladylynn]

it has to do with the law being abolished.
you said to repent.
if there is no law then there is no way to repent. its impossible.

Been thinking a lot about the word "repent" this year. It means something different than what we usually first think. Tons of people have tons of emotions and tons of wrong emotions based on a wrong idea of what has happened. Many emotions are not based in reality. I think we humans take emotions much more serious than God.

Speaking from my own experience of taking emotions way too seriously as if they were fact., and coming to the conclusion that it was very often a futile waste of time (and energy), I've seen that God is much more interested in my mind changing about what He says vs what I think.

That is what true repentance is, a change of mind and being in agreement with God and changing my course. I can cry tears of joy or sorrow and it is ok with God but not needed. What He does want from me is my trust in Him to do what He says and to walk out life His way and not according to my own understanding. As I acknowledge Him, my paths change. He will change that for me as that renewing of the mind process goes on from reading His Word and being open to the Holy Spirit's revelation of the truth.

 

[Wall]

Man working apart from God. Pride.

Not according to the Word

PSALM 119 [21] Thou hast rebuked THE PROUD that are cursed, which DO ERR FROM THY COMMANDMENTS.

PSALM 119 [85] THE PROUD have digged pits for me, which ARE NOT AFTER THY LAW. [86] All thy commandments are faithful: they persecute me wrongfully; help thou me.

MALACHI 4 [1] For, BEHOLD, THE DAY COMETH, that shall burn as an oven; and ALL THE PROUD, yea, and all that do wickedly, SHALL BE STUBBLE: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. [2] But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. [3] And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts. [4] REMEMBER YE THE LAW OF MOSES my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments. [5] Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful DAY OF THE LORD:

ROMANS 1 [30] Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, PROUD, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, [31] Without understanding, COVENANTBREAKERS, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

Aint the Word of God great!

 

[Zmouth]

1. The word was God. not just with God.
2. The word is all about God.
3. The spirit is also God. that's why we can trust what he says.

For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; 1 Thess 1:5


Not trying to make a point but just offering a different facet in the prism to look at.

 

[jaybird88]

The sin of 'unbelief' is the sin. The sin that says "I can do it apart from Jesus" is the sin. The sin that causes people to think something in them is able to "do" something to be worthy of God looking down and forgiving them is "the" sin.

if someone had unbelief they wouldnt know they were sinning in the first place

if someone thinks they have no need for Jesus then they would have no desire to follow the law.

if people believe in Jesus, love Jesus, they will keep His commands and do His Father will.

 

[ladylynn]

So if the law of truth and the Grace of God don't go hand in hand?

(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; ) Romans 2:13-15

I already posted that the law came by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. As new covenant believers, we follow the (law of faith). Jesus is the Way the truth and the life. In Him we are justified and made righteous by grace through faith. Not by our works but by faith in Him and what He has done for us. We cannot do anything worthy to be saved. Believers have been given a new heart now. We are loved unconditionally now. Grace is unmerited unearned favor and love.

So we walk by faith in what He says and depart from our own understanding of how life is supposed to work. We used to walk according to our flesh and were accustomed to it. Now we daily learn how to walk by faith., in newness of life. Old habits are hard to break but (faith) is the way we can actually begin to change. By grace through faith. Not by works.

I'm always amazed how our salvation begins this way and it's also how we live out the rest of our lives as believers here on earth.... By grace through faith.

 

[Wall]

As ive said before, you are saved by grace alone. But let me ask you a question

ISAIAH 48 [17] THUS SAITH THE LORD, THY REDEEMER, THE HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.[18] O THAT THOU HADST HEARKENED TO MY COMMANDMENTS! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:

Whose your Redeemer? What does He saith?

If your not sure about your Redeemer.... Who opened His mouth with parables?

PSALM 78 [1] Give ear, O my people, to my law: incline your ears to the words of my mouth.[2] I WILL OPEN MY MOUTH IN A PARABLE: I will utter dark sayings of old:[3] Which we have heard and known, and our fathers have told us.[4] We will not hide them from their children, shewing to the generation to come the praises of the LORD, and his strength, and his wonderful works that he hath done.[5] FOR HE ESTABLISHED A TESTIMONY IN JACOB, AND APPOINTED A LAW IN ISRAEL, WHICH HE COMMANDED OUR FATHERS, that they should make them known to their children:[6] That the generation to come might know them, even the children which should be born; who should arise and declare them to their children:[7] That they might set their hope in God, AND NOT FORGET THE WORKS OF GOD, BUT KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS:[8] And might not be as their fathers, a stubborn and rebellious generation; a generation that set not their heart aright, and whose spirit was not stedfast with God.[9] The children of Ephraim, being armed, and carrying bows, turned back in the day of battle.[10] THEY KEPT NOT THE COVENANT OF GOD, AND REFUSED TO WALK IN HIS LAW;[11] AND FORGAT HIS WORKS, and his wonders that he had shewed them.

We all know who opened his mouth in parables and who established a testimony in Jacob. Yup, its JESUS CHRIST. Anyone know when the Day of Battle is? Yup, this Day of the Lord scripture is prophecy that will come true. There are "many" who go about speaking wonderful words about Jesus but refuse to walk after His law. Aint lookin good for them folks