Have you been deceived by Satan through your church?

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Depleted

Guest
#81
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Please tell me why NT passages such as these do NOT apply to you?


“… wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to (eternal)
destruction … narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which
leads to (eternal) life, and there are few who find it.” (Matthew 7:13-14)
The truth of the narrow way has not at all been taught in its full reality.
There are many NT verses which prove how narrow the way really is!

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord’, shall enter the kingdom
of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven …
I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you (approved of you); depart
from Me, you who practice lawlessness (sin)!’ ” (Matthew 7:21-23)
There’s much more to doing God’s will than merely believing in Jesus!
Yes, sin keeps you out of the kingdom … see the NT “sin lists”
(1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21, Ephesians 5:3-6).

“You will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures
to the end (until his death) will be saved (eternally).” (Matthew 10:22)
There are about 15 NT verses which teach us … the believer must
endure in the faith until death to receive eternal life (and some are below).

“But if you want to enter into (eternal) life, keep the commandments.”
(Matthew 19:17)
“He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me.”
(John 14:21, also John 14:23 & John 15:14)
Does anyone get into heaven who does NOT love Jesus and obey Him?

“If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter
into life maimed rather than having two hands and go to hell” (Mark 9:43)

“For whoever desires to save his (worldly) life will lose it (eternal life)
but whoever loses his (worldly) life for My sake will save it (eternal life)
For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and is
himself destroyed or lost (eternal death)?” (Luke 9:24-25 and John 12:25)

“And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh” (Galatians 5:24)
“For if you live according to the flesh you will die (eternally)(Romans 8:13)
“Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows,
that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh
reap corruption (eternal death)(Galatians 6:7-8)

“… the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received
... by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which
I preached to you – unless you believed in vain.(1 Corinthians 15:1-2)

“Then when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin;
and sin, when it is full grown, brings forth (eternal) death.
Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.” (James 1:15-16)

“But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare,
and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in
destruction and perdition (eternal death) … Command those who
are rich … that they may lay hold on to eternal life.” (1 Timothy 6:9-19)

‘My righteous ones will live by faith. But I will take no pleasure
in anyone who turns away.’ But we are not like those who turn
away from God to their own destruction (eternal death). We are
the faithful ones, whose souls will be saved.” (Hebrews 10:38-39)
Paul says some believers turn back to their destruction, but in fact,
he has NO idea who will remain faithful to the end, or who will turn away!

“In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest:
whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God” (1 John 3:10)
“He who practices righteousness is righteous” (1 John 3:7)

He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God
and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable,
murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars
shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone,
which is the second death (eternal death).” (Revelation 21:7-8)
The “cowardly” include believers who fall from the faith when persecuted
for their Christian faith, or later submit to taking the mark of the beast.

“But there shall by no means enter it (the New Jerusalem) anything
that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those
who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.” (Revelation 21:27)

He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and
I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life” (Revelation 3:5)

Jesus gives His definition of who the victorious “overcomer” is …
To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne,
as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.” (Revelation 3:21)
Just what did Jesus overcome? Primarily: the world, sin, and the devil.
We today are the deceived church of Laodicea (Revelation 3:14-22).

“If you refuse to forgive others, your Father won’t forgive your sins.” (Matthew 6:15)
Unforgiveness blocks you from heaven and also blocks you from being healed!

“Fear the Lord and keep His commandments … so that you may be saved.
… So have faith in Him and fear Him and by that fear exercise self-control.
Keep these commandments. If you do, you will put on the strength of
righteousness, and cast all wickedness from you, and live to God.”
(“The Shepherd of Hermas” -- most popular Christian “book” during 100-400 a.d.
Quoted as Scripture by such as Irenaeas, Clement, Origen, Codex Sinaiticus.
The Shepherd calls himself: “the Shepherd and messenger of repentance”.)


“Fear God, who has the power … to throw you into hell” (Luke 12:5)
“… unless you repent you will all likewise perish.” (Luke 13:3 and 13:5)

“… beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh
and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God … your sorrow
(over his first letter to them) led to repentance … For godly sorrow
produces repentance leading to salvation.” (2 Corinthians 7:1-10)
Yes, ALL sins will be forgiven through deep and sincere repentance!

“If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins
and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:9)
“When the Lord saw that their repentance was good and pure, and that they
were able to remain in it, He ordered their former sins to be blotted out.”
(“The Shepherd of Hermas” – he’s not nearly as tactful as the earlier Epistles)


Has Satan deceived you? ... Has he deceived your church?

Satan hates God, and he hates you! … He and his demons work
tirelessly to succeed in having you spend eternity in hell with them.
“the god of this world” (2 Cor 4:4)
“the ruler of this world” (John 12:31)
“the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world” (Revelation 12:9)
“he is a liar and the father of it (lies)(John 8:44)
“evil rulers and authorities of the unseen world” (Ephesians 6:12)

Have you been deceived into believing in “once saved, always saved”,
and that your sins (past, present, and future) have all been forgiven?
(Also, have you been deceived into believing in a pre-tribulation rapture?)
Heads-up! The dozens of warnings in the NT are there for a purpose!
For example: “… you are that one’s slaves whom you obey,
whether (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
(slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness … now present
your bodies as slaves of righteousness for holiness.” (Romans 6:16,19)

Born-agains have been given a new nature and the indwelling Holy Spirit
to free them from their bondage to Satan – and from their slavery to sin!
Who has offended you so badly, that you think it's a good idea to scold everyone?
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#82
Because the many dozens of dire warnings in the epistles were written to the churches!

Here's an idea ...
why don't you RECONCILE the so-called OSAS NT verses with the anti-OSAS NT verses.

If, and when, you do this, you will find ...
"believe" really means "believe, have faith in, trust in, obey ... until death".
This is what the NT teaches.
So, seriously? The one work we must do to be saved is to refute OSAS?

(And, boy, dude! Betcha found that scold didn't work out for you so well by now. You -- whoever you think you are -- thinking you're going to teach that mere woman a thing or two? WRONG woman to belittle.
)
 
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Depleted

Guest
#83
It all applies...We don't live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.
Really? So, you don't think your sins are all forgiven?
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#84
Yes, but these are only a few of my NT favorites.

You should read some of the recent words from the Lord coming through His prophets and watchmen!
After decades of giving His warnings to these people for the church,
He is stepping it up in even greater intensity, especially condemning the pastors.

His big-time judgment of America has really now begun.
Witness Houston ... it will be left totally desolate, uninhabitable!
So, Jesus is still giving new words? Boy! And to think. You're the one telling us our churches are being deceived.

Your credibility just went from 50% to 0%.
 
Mar 23, 2016
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#85
preacher4truth said:
Now all you are doing is showing you don’t understand context and then misuse Scripture.
Nope.

The reason some are not saved is because they reject God. When God's Word is spoken to them, they suppress and restrain (Gr. katechō) the truth in unrighteousness. That is what Rom 1:18 tells us.

Those who do not suppress and restrain the truth in unrighteousness are not rejected by God.

Those who
suppress and restrain the truth in unrighteousness reject God.

Is it your assertion that the reason some are not saved is because God decided He didn’t want them?
 
V

Veteran

Guest
#86
In your old Thayer’s Greek lexicon, was the statement actually part of the publication? Or was it a handwritten statement made by you (or someone else)?
"Twas el parto of the publication!
I apologize for inserting that into Matt 7:21.
Cannot Vine write something that I agree with?
But, generally, I don't trust him now.

Methunks you're doin' your best to find fault with as mucho as you can about me.

T'would be refreshing if you would try to answer da qvestion ...
Please tell me why NT passages such as these do NOT apply to you?
 
Aug 27, 2017
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#87
No I have not been deceived by Satan, God knows all his tricks so I'm safe.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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#88
To answer the op no I have not been deceived and this is why. Many call themselves Christians they go to church they pray constantly they do good deeds and the live the Christian life style but love is not there in their hearts not the kind that comes from his heart alone that is. There is all kinds of love in this world and even a fake kind of Godly love that one often sees in people who call themselves Christians but this is not the love he so often speaks of in his word. His love is more than a way of acting or treating people I mean anyone can act out love if they practice but his love is clearly seen in people they just seem to radiate it like a shining light because it's alien to most people.

his love is more than an emotion or a feeling more than a way of acting and treating people it's a way of seeing and it's a way of thinking it's a way of being it's the supernatural steroid in the believers growth and closeness to God. It changes how you see the world and how you see people and life it changes your ways of thinking and changes your ways of being in general it fills you with this life and light that cannot be faked even by the most experienced fakers it allows you to connect and touch peoples hearts in ways no one else could and it is a burning fire inside us that even when we get distracted and fall and stumble never fizzles out.

You see I am not a passionate person even with my favorite things to do in life I am not what you would call passionate I would not be willing to risk everything for them I do not have the same fire I do for God as I do anything else in fact he is the only one and the only thing I have ever had such a passion and fire for I could less what the cost is or how far I have to go I don't care what I am lacking in or what I have to go through to get to know him far more intimately and to develop a far deeper love and connection and bond with him than what anyone has ever had with him before, I made a promise to him the day he first entered my heart that if he and I were going to do this we are going to go all the way or not all we are going to give it everything we've got or else not at all otherwise there is no point.

This is why I know I'm not deceived the fire and the passion and the love and the intimacy that burns so intensely in my heart is proof enough for me, There is a vast difference in a Christian by title and a Christian by heart and for some faith is a way of living or a hobby but for others it's a fiery passion that lights up the sky.
 
V

Veteran

Guest
#89
RE: repenting of a particular sin
1 • have sorrow over doing it
2 • confess it before the Lord
3 • ask the Lord for forgiveness
4 • stop doing it
This what the Lord requires of you.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,215
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#90
RE: repenting of a particular sin
1 • have sorrow over doing it
2 • confess it before the Lord
3 • ask the Lord for forgiveness
4 • stop doing it
This what the Lord requires of you.
Hmmm well while this is indeed a good thing to practice it far to bland and dry, There is far more to it than mere obedience and confession such things are practiced even in false religions.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#91
RE: repenting of a particular sin
1 • have sorrow over doing it
2 • confess it before the Lord
3 • ask the Lord for forgiveness
4 • stop doing it
This what the Lord requires of you.
Then Peter came and said to Him,
“Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?”
Jesus said to him,
I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven!"
(Matthew 18:21-22)​

Suppose this were to happen to Peter. 490 times his brother sins against him.

Be on your guard!
If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.

And if he sins against you seven times a day, and returns to you seven times, saying, ‘I repent,’ forgive him.
(Luke 17:3-4)

Suppose this happens to Peter. 7 times a day for 70 days.

What's to be said of Peter's brother?
Did Peter's brother repent, by your definition? and by God's?
Is Peter's brother forgiven?
On the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] day? the 8[SUP]th[/SUP]? the 69[SUP]th[/SUP]? the 71[SUP]st[/SUP]?

At what hours in those 70 days is Peter's brother saved? At what hours is he not saved?
If you had the schedule of his sins, his sorrow, his speaking to Peter, Peter's reply to him -- could you map out his saved/damned status minute-by-minute?

The apostles said to the Lord,
“Increase our faith!”

(Luke 17:5)​





 
Mar 23, 2016
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#92
"Twas el parto of the publication!
I apologize for inserting that into Matt 7:21.
Cannot Vine write something that I agree with?
But, generally, I don't trust him now.

Methunks you're doin' your best to find fault with as mucho as you can about me.

T'would be refreshing if you would try to answer da qvestion ...
Please tell me why NT passages such as these do NOT apply to you?
Hmmm ... I'll have to check into your statement about Thayer's.

So do you still believe that Jesus says in Matt 7:23 that He never "approved" of those who claim "Lord, Lord"?


Or do you believe Jesus is saying that He never "knew" them?

Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew [Greek oudepote egnōn never knew you, never had any acquaintance with] you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
 
V

Veteran

Guest
#93

So do you still believe that Jesus says in Matt 7:23
that He never "approved" of those who claim "Lord, Lord"?

Or do you believe Jesus is saying that He never "knew" them?
Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them,
I never knew
[Greek oudepote egnōn never knew you,
never had any acquaintance with] you:
depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
I certainly am not sure of Jesus' exact meaning.
My favorite "know" verses are John 10:27-28 and John 17:2.
IMO, both are referring to a personal relationship with the Father and/or Jesus.
So, I believe the meaning is the same in Matt 7:23.
If Jesus has not had a personal relationship with a person,
He certainly does not approve of him/her.
Such a personal relationship surely is the Father's will (Matt 7:21).
And Jesus never knew those who never have experienced this (Matt 7:23).
 
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V

Veteran

Guest
#94
Since creation, God has always insisted on man’s co-operation.
Jesus will make you holy (i.e. He will fully sanctify you),
but only IF you co-operate with the precious Holy Spirit
via your God-given free-will.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,675
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#95
Since creation, God has always insisted on man’s co-operation.
Jesus will make you holy (i.e. He will fully sanctify you),
but only IF you co-operate with the precious Holy Spirit
via your God-given free-will.
please tell us why you think this scripture does NOT apply to you? ((;)))

For You are our Father,
though Abraham does not know us
And Israel does not recognize us.
You, O LORD, are our Father,
Our Redeemer from of old is Your name.
Why, O LORD, do You cause us to stray from Your ways
And harden our heart from fearing You?
Return for the sake of Your servants, the tribes of Your heritage.
Your holy people possessed Your sanctuary for a little while,
Our adversaries have trodden it down.
We have become like those over whom You have never ruled,
Like those who were not called by Your name.

(Isaiah 63:16-19)
 
K

Karraster

Guest
#96
Isaiah 63:16-19 pertains to the unbelieving. Where has Vereran stated he did not believe in Messiah? Was that your best shot?:)
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#97
Isaiah 63:16-19 pertains to the unbelieving. Where has Vereran stated he did not believe in Messiah? Was that your best shot?:)

this post leaves me kinda puzzled, Karraster. lotsa questions:

why do you call what i'm posting "taking shots" ?
why do think he might have said he does not believe in the Messiah?

i quoted what i was responding to. ((& yeah, alluded to the first line of post #1))

is He really the Father of unbelievers?
are unbelievers "
His servants" ?
are unbelievers "
His holy people" ?
are unbelievers "
those called by His name" ?
are unbelievers "
those ruled by Him" ?
are unbelievers "
the tribes of His heritage" ?
the text identifies the ones this passage is about as all these things. this seems to me to be a group of descriptions that is more characteristic of "
believers" than "unbelievers" . .

where do you get "
unbelievers" ? the text is a prayer to Him. why would unbelievers be praying to the God they don't believe in?

those speaking in this passage - do they stray from their will and are their hearts hard because of their free will?
is that what this passage says?

who's really​ got "
the deciding vote" ?


 
K

Karraster

Guest
#98
I'm puzzled too PostHuman. Why is it, that mostly on BDF the posts on any given thread are deflecting rather than addressing the OP? Hmm? If one does not want to address the OP, then why bother to respond? That sort of thing I call shots/ potshots.

Read all of the chapter. Does it not become clear that those you mentioned are the very ones who were blinded for our sakes? (non-believers)

I'm here to learn, the OP I take to heart. It's kinda frustrating when most serious threads are filled with mostly wise cracks.
 
Mar 23, 2016
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#99
I certainly am not sure of Jesus' exact meaning.
My favorite "know" verses are John 10:27-28 and John 17:2.
IMO, both are referring to a personal relationship with the Father and/or Jesus.
So, I believe the meaning is the same in Matt 7:23.
If Jesus has not had a personal relationship with a person,
He certainly does not approve of him/her.
Such a personal relationship surely is the Father's will (Matt 7:21).
And Jesus never knew those who never have experienced this (Matt 7:23).
John 10:27-28 My sheep hear my voice, and I know [Greek ginoskō] them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.


The word "know" in John 10:27 is the Greek word ginoskō (same word as Matt 7:23).


In John 10:27, Jesus says He knows His sheep. Jesus knows His sheep personally, through first-hand acquaintance.

In Matt 7:23, to some who profess to know Jesus, He tells them He never knew them. He was never acquainted with them.


The word for "approved" is the Greek word dokimazō. I do not see the word dokimazō in the text of Matt 7:21-23.
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
1,436
68
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I'm puzzled too PostHuman. Why is it, that mostly on BDF the posts on any given thread are deflecting rather than addressing the OP? Hmm? If one does not want to address the OP, then why bother to respond? That sort of thing I call shots/ potshots.

Read all of the chapter. Does it not become clear that those you mentioned are the very ones who were blinded for our sakes? (non-believers)

I'm here to learn, the OP I take to heart. It's kinda frustrating when most serious threads are filled with mostly wise cracks.
Please don't take this to heart, as it can be wrong. However it seems to me that when people take shoots, they do so to cover their own lack of understanding, many time this is due to their lack of willingness to study. Ok this is coming from a man that some may call a professional student. Being as I have spent close to 25 years in class now. Taking class on Biblical Law, Israeli History, Biblical History, New testament Saints, and church History. With many many other classes mixed in for fun.