Healing - Christians and ill health

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notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
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#41
The thorn was persecution. That is why the Lord didn't remove it. If you remember Jesus said Paul would suffer for His name? There is a big difference when someone is being persecuted and someone being ill, sick, crippled etc...
Well there is no reason to believe that Paul would pray for something to end that Jesus said we would have because of Him.

There is historical evidence in the bible that Paul had an eye disease. It is quite likely that this is what Paul was seeking to have healed.

God certainly allows suffering among His saints. We are counted as sheep for the slaughter for His names sake. When we are weak His is strong. Precious in His sight is the death of His saints. The wicked are not so.

In times of great prosperity and good health we naturally forget God. When we suffer we are drawn closer to God and realize how much and how constantly we must depend upon His mercy and goodness. God delights to care for His children.

Jesus said I have not come to be ministered unto but to minister.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
C

CeileDe

Guest
#42
Well there is no reason to believe that Paul would pray for something to end that Jesus said we would have because of Him.

There is historical evidence in the bible that Paul had an eye disease. It is quite likely that this is what Paul was seeking to have healed.

God certainly allows suffering among His saints. We are counted as sheep for the slaughter for His names sake. When we are weak His is strong. Precious in His sight is the death of His saints. The wicked are not so.

In times of great prosperity and good health we naturally forget God. When we suffer we are drawn closer to God and realize how much and how constantly we must depend upon His mercy and goodness. God delights to care for His children.

Jesus said I have not come to be ministered unto but to minister.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
I would disagree that Paul had an eye disease since he was healed of blindness. Remember Paul was beaten so bad that he was left for dead? After this he walked to another area and started preaching the gospel. I might be mistaken but I believe this is when people think he had an eye disease. I'm sure he looked pretty bad after getting beat like he did and I'm sure his vision wasn't 100%.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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#43
The point being made is Jesus did not promise us an easy life, or things just sorted out, wealth provided and domination.
Jesus promised us eternal life, light instead of darkness, living water within, setting free from the slavery of sin, life to the full, relationships that are open and honest.

Some now believe this means perfect health, and success in this world. Now in a booming economy with systems of business and technology this is actually possible with or without faith in the Lord. Medicene, health care, good housing, food, education has solved many problems.

Illness is not a curse, it is part of life, and how we deal with it shows our faith and trust in the Lord. We are not submitting to the authority of the world, taking medicene, or going to bed, and caring for the sick. Ofcourse we pray for people in need and in the Lords will, pray for healing, but whether he answers or just leaves things as they are we still praise and love Him in the situation.

Our society has got so bad, it is deemed acceptable by some, if as an athelete you loose the ability to run, it is ok to say life is no longer worth living so you can commit suicide rather than adjust to changing circumstances. This is pure selfish ambition and valuing life by what you do and not what you are. We are called to be above circumstance and see the Lords love working in every situation. Those who say perfect health comes with walking with the Lord are equally desiring selfish ambition which the Lord never promised.
 
C

CeileDe

Guest
#44
The point being made is Jesus did not promise us an easy life, or things just sorted out, wealth provided and domination.
Jesus promised us eternal life, light instead of darkness, living water within, setting free from the slavery of sin, life to the full, relationships that are open and honest.

Some now believe this means perfect health, and success in this world. Now in a booming economy with systems of business and technology this is actually possible with or without faith in the Lord. Medicene, health care, good housing, food, education has solved many problems.

Illness is not a curse, it is part of life, and how we deal with it shows our faith and trust in the Lord. We are not submitting to the authority of the world, taking medicene, or going to bed, and caring for the sick. Ofcourse we pray for people in need and in the Lords will, pray for healing, but whether he answers or just leaves things as they are we still praise and love Him in the situation.

Our society has got so bad, it is deemed acceptable by some, if as an athelete you loose the ability to run, it is ok to say life is no longer worth living so you can commit suicide rather than adjust to changing circumstances. This is pure selfish ambition and valuing life by what you do and not what you are. We are called to be above circumstance and see the Lords love working in every situation. Those who say perfect health comes with walking with the Lord are equally desiring selfish ambition which the Lord never promised.
Illness isn't a curse? Have you read genesis? When we were first created there wasn't illness or sickness, this happened after the fall of man. So YES it is a curse.

No one is saying anything about perfect health. These are words you are throwing around. All of us get sick, do we just accept it and go get medicine or should we give it to the Lord and have Him take care of it for us? Every experience I have had with healing from the Lord is there is no side effects like in mans medicine.
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
589
113
#45
I'm not a brilliant Bible scholar.... all I know is the doctors said my husband's prognosis for survival was "very poor" and if he did live certainly never walk.

We asked the Lord for help and healing and now Tom not only walks but mows the lawn.
Nice witness...

Faith, as little as a mustard seed working through prayer can move a mountain...Lol
 
A

atwhatcost

Guest
#46
This is an article I wrote for Christianity Today over decade ago. Te editor sent me a lovely rejection notice saying that the only reason they were using it was because they weren't doing a magazine about sickness in the foreseeable future.

It ought to answer about Paul's thorn.

A Thorn in My Flesh

“You are in pain because you have unrepentant sin. You don’t trust God enough to be healed. God wants to heal everyone, so it is your fault you are in pain. Repent. Believe. You will be healed.”
Imagine my shock, after suddenly become disabled, hearing these words from people I considered friends. A believer for 33 years, I am no longer able to go to church because I cannot sit up straight for over an hour. My social life is, at best, limited, so I went online to chat rooms. I used to go to a Christian chat room all the time, but when hit with the words written above, I was too hurt and too exhausted to correct these lies from people I considered my family in Christ. In my new chat room of other disabled people, I met many Christians, who have heard the same words and have left the church because of them.
Now is the time to expose these lies and hopefully, to teach others to be more loving, because of the love God has given to us.
You are in pain because you have unrepentant sin.
If pain is from unrepentant sin, then why didn’t the Apostles tell their good friends to repent when they were sick? When Paul wrote to Timothy, he told him to use a little wine because of his stomach and frequent illnesses. (1 Tim 5:23) Paul didn’t tell Timothy to repent to get rid of his stomach problems. And Paul left Trophimus sick in Miletus. (2 Tim 4:20) Why didn’t he just tell him to repent?
If pain is from unrepentant sin, then why did the early Christians suffer from beatings, and imprisonment and loss of physical health? (Acts 14:21-22, Acts 20:23, 2 Cor.1:8, 2 Cor. 6:4-10, Rev. 2:3) Was this from God as a punishment?
If God has taught us that all diseases, disabilities and health problems are from unrepentant sin, then why would he curse people who let blind people go astray? (Deut 27:18) Shouldn’t he have told the people to tell the blind person to repent?
If pain, disease and illness are from unrepentant sin, then wasn’t God wrong for letting Satan afflict Job, “a righteous man”? (Job 2:2-7)
Yes, there is sickness, pain and disease because of sin. (Gen. 12:17, Duet. 28:15-29, 2 Chron. 21:13-15, Acts 12:23) It is quite possible that I have this pain because of sin, even though I ask forgiveness often. Then again, I also know that there are many healthy people, who have never repented. Now that is truly sad.
You don’t trust God enough to be healed.
This one makes me smile for a few reasons. First, would someone please make up his or her mind? Is this disorder I have caused by unrepentant sin, not trusting God enough, or because God is too weak to heal me without my say-so? Second, if trusting God to be healed is a requirement, then how did those dead people, including Lazarus, come back to life? (Matt. 9:23-24, Mark 5:36-42, Luke 7:12-15, John 11:11-45)
Jesus said, “I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you." (Matt 17:20)
I admit to being a Doubting Thomas, believing little unless I see it for myself, but I have had 33 years with the Lord, not all of it following easily. I know for sure that Jesus is, he is who he said he is – God, and his words have not failed me. I can’t tell you how large my faith is, but I can assure you that it is, at least, the size of a mustard seed – God working in my life, despite me.
There is a debate going on that cannot be resolved until we meet Jesus face-to-face, about what Paul’s thorn in the flesh was. (2 Cor. 12:7-10) One of the theories is that it was a physical disability and if you read it carefully, there is nothing to say it couldn’t be. If you consider the amount of events in Paul’s life – beatings, imprisonment, shipwrecked, and living in the elements on long pilgrimages – it surely seems quite plausible. Then again, obviously I have a good chance of being extremely biased here, so I won’t say that it could not be something else. No matter what that thorn was, it obviously was a great weakness that Paul, a man of great faith, asked God to remove three times, before getting an answer that apparently was clear enough to him to know that God wanted him to live with it.
I have never met a Christian with a sickness or disability that has not only asked God for him or herself, but has asked friends, families and elders in the church, to pray to be healthy again. I read a sign at the place where I have my blood tests done most the time that said, “Health is a crown that only the unhealthy see.” I admit to taking my health for granted, back when I was relatively healthy. I use to thank God for being healthy, despite not really understanding how bad unhealthy can get. I have also seen God heal people of different deformities and diseases. I have had the experience of being healed by God from a reoccurring urinary tract infection that I had every other month for two years and never cleared up except with the use of antibiotics. After I was miraculously healed, I have only had it about five times in the last 23 years. I know the true and deep blessing of God healing me. I know the deep blessing of health. I had hundreds of people praying that I recover from what I have now and if he ever says, “Yes,” I will shout it from the rooftops. As it stands now, God has not healed me. I’m not saying he never will, but as of yet, his answer is, at least, “Not yet.”
I have never met a disabled Christian who does not believe like I believe. We trust God to heal, when he says, “be healed,” not by our will, but by his will.
God wants to heal everyone, so it is your fault you are in pain.
God is omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, and holy. These are not mere words. Think deeply on what those words mean. God can do anything he wants whenever he wants and neither Satan nor mere human beings can thwart him on his plan. God has but one goal and is working it out perfectly. God will have himself a people that worship him and love him. Whomever he calls to himself will come and be saved. (John 6:35-40) If God’s will is to heal me, even if I were stupid enough to say, “No,” he will heal me, even if he has to put me through much to get me to that point where I want to be healed. (Jonah)
I want to be healed. I tried everything available to me to be miraculously healed or to be medically healed. I still check in, occasionally, with a specialist to see if anything new is available to help me. Doctors have told me that the best they can do for me is to try to lessen my pain. They have lessened it already, but it has merely gone from unbearable, in tears, rocking back and forth pain to I can’t do very much, but I’m not crying pain.
There is something else I want, even if I’m never healed in this life. I want to not have to fight my brothers and sisters in Christ and to know that we are all accepted through Jesus Christ’s blood. I want people to understand that I do still sin, but God is working on me. I want to be loved in Christ even with this weak body that can’t seem to get out of my way, to walk side by side with my brothers and sisters in Christ, to learn all the things God has to show us of his glory and his beauty. And I don’t want to have to constantly feel as if I am the only sinner in the group. We are saved by faith, Jesus’ faith. It is God’s doing that we are saved, loved and brought to where we are right now. Sometimes he takes me where I don’t want to go, but, in the end, like my favorite prophet in the Bible, Jonah, he gets me where he wants me to be, even if I go the hard way.
“For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men. Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.” Rom 14:18-19
 
Mar 10, 2015
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#47
Well there is no reason to believe that Paul would pray for something to end that Jesus said we would have because of Him.

There is historical evidence in the bible that Paul had an eye disease. It is quite likely that this is what Paul was seeking to have healed.

God certainly allows suffering among His saints. We are counted as sheep for the slaughter for His names sake. When we are weak His is strong. Precious in His sight is the death of His saints. The wicked are not so.

In times of great prosperity and good health we naturally forget God. When we suffer we are drawn closer to God and realize how much and how constantly we must depend upon His mercy and goodness. God delights to care for His children.

Jesus said I have not come to be ministered unto but to minister.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
How could an eye disease be a messenger of Satan that would prohibit Paul from being too prideful!!?!?!?
 
May 30, 2015
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#48
If you think I'm mocking. I'm not. I've asked God to take this away. 16 years and the answer is still no. 13 years for hubby. I really wouldn't turn down someone who does have the gift of healing. I know God can heal. But they wouldn't be called "miracles" if they've always been in the dynamics of how the world automatically runs. (aka "the laws of physics.")

The only reason I added my want ad, is because anyone who ever disagrees with someone on these boards will quickly find the person they disagree with to fight tooth and nail to get their point across. If their point is, "I can heal, so you're wrong," cool! I want in on that action. I want hubby and me to be the test case!

I've not met the person who can heal me. If that person comes, wow! My mind just worked at the speed of light to realize I could do so much I simply cannot do now. I just saw a clean house, a nice garden, a new job that pays enough to afford some of the things we simply gave up ever getting.
If you are born again, you already have your healing. It is in your spirit where God dwells, along with every promise He has made to you in His word and every blessing He has stored up for you there. Your healing is in the atonement. Your healing is one of His promises to you. All you need is to appropriate it by faith. You don't have to beg God for it. It's right there for the taking.
 
Last edited:
May 30, 2015
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#49
The thorn was persecution. That is why the Lord didn't remove it. If you remember Jesus said Paul would suffer for His name? There is a big difference when someone is being persecuted and someone being ill, sick, crippled etc...
Exactly right!
 
Feb 24, 2015
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#50
This is an article I wrote for Christianity Today over decade ago. Te editor sent me a lovely rejection notice saying that the only reason they were using it was because they weren't doing a magazine about sickness in the foreseeable future.

It ought to answer about Paul's thorn.

A Thorn in My Flesh

A believer for 33 years, I am no longer able to go to church because I cannot sit up straight for over an hour. My social life is, at best, limited, so I went online to chat rooms.
All I can say is amen. Our bodies are weak and frail, and as people live longer with more help, living with our limitations and literal suffering will become more and more common. I want to say you bring out the balance of healing and faith, of the struggles of millions of faithful women and men, who follow the Lord but pay a price every day, to struggle with the burden of limited life. These things are a natural consequence of our physical existance and slow failure of parts of our body.

In times gone by there was not the care to keep people going, or understanding. As we stop things that previously would have killed us, we gain the ability to keep going, but something will finally fail which we cannot fix.

So where is the problem? Is the issue with the person trying to fix an imperfect system when it starts to go off the rails, or the Lord for not stopping it from going off the rails? We will all die, but the how and why is becoming more of our choice than ever before. My uncle had prostate cancer. There came a point where he could get a total blood transfusion that would keep him going for another six months, but this life was only 2 hrs awake, and he could do very little.
In the end he decided to stop treatment.

A mechanical watch needs to be wound up a lot of times. Eventually the spring breaks. Whose fault is that? That is part of life. Until we meet the Lord our failing bodies are mortal, and run out of juice, but that is the result of the fall, not having the ability to renew through the tree of Life. For those running away from this reality, you are insane, delusional, not following the Lords way of submission to the limitations of existence. Jesus bowed the knee to the cross because it was the only way to save His people, to call in the lost. Likewise this slow mortal deterioration is the way of leaving this world and entering into the kingdom if nothing else intervenes. Until he returns there is no other way.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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#51
If you are born again, you already have your healing. It is in your spirit where God dwells, along with every promise He has made to you in His word and every blessing He has stored up for you there. Your healing is in the atonement. Your healing is one of His promises to you. All you need is to appropriate it by faith. You don't have to beg God for it. It's right there for the taking.
I am sorry, deeply sorry. When a christian sister who faithfully declares the limitation of her life, set by the Lord, and you claim it is an issue of faith, you are saying all those who are long term disabled or ill, if in faith, are not saved, or if they come to faith and are not healed, equally have not really come to faith. This is wrong and dishonors the gospel and the core of the gospel that love is Gods heart, and changing the heart of people no matter their circumstance is the message.

If everyone got a healthy life or a simple end to life, by believing, why would people follow Jesus? Because of the health plan or because they love Him?

My daughter has been suffering gastric pain, night and day for a week now. Her words are it is like torture. In a sense it is but it is also failure of a complex system which we do not understand that well, and it has wobblies. Now is the answer to this to get miraculous intervention to make our lives easier or learning to deal with mortality. Gods will is for us to deal with mortality. We reap what we sow, whether we understand it or not.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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#52
Dear reader,

There is a great danger once you say you are on daily friendship terms with the Creator of the universe who intends no believer to be ill, then if you are ill you are not a believer. Now for the young and healthy, this seems so true, but those near the end of their lives, it is just stupid. The point is if you fix everything, every time there is a problem, that is eternal life on earth.

So where is the dividing line between fixing miraculously and letting mortality take its course? How many great men of faith made it to eternal life on earth? Zero. Did Lazarus finally die? Yes.

So work it out? What is your eternal health package in Jesus?
 
A

atwhatcost

Guest
#53
I am sorry, deeply sorry. When a christian sister who faithfully declares the limitation of her life, set by the Lord, and you claim it is an issue of faith, you are saying all those who are long term disabled or ill, if in faith, are not saved, or if they come to faith and are not healed, equally have not really come to faith. This is wrong and dishonors the gospel and the core of the gospel that love is Gods heart, and changing the heart of people no matter their circumstance is the message.

If everyone got a healthy life or a simple end to life, by believing, why would people follow Jesus? Because of the health plan or because they love Him?

My daughter has been suffering gastric pain, night and day for a week now. Her words are it is like torture. In a sense it is but it is also failure of a complex system which we do not understand that well, and it has wobblies. Now is the answer to this to get miraculous intervention to make our lives easier or learning to deal with mortality. Gods will is for us to deal with mortality. We reap what we sow, whether we understand it or not.
I'm not sure Nancy was saying that. God does heal us when we first believe. He brings our dead spirit back to life and it's a permanent heal. We will die physically eventually (or shortly), but our spirit are officially eternal. I'm not sure if that's what she meant or the other thing.
 
A

atwhatcost

Guest
#54
I am sorry, deeply sorry. When a christian sister who faithfully declares the limitation of her life, set by the Lord, and you claim it is an issue of faith, you are saying all those who are long term disabled or ill, if in faith, are not saved, or if they come to faith and are not healed, equally have not really come to faith. This is wrong and dishonors the gospel and the core of the gospel that love is Gods heart, and changing the heart of people no matter their circumstance is the message.

If everyone got a healthy life or a simple end to life, by believing, why would people follow Jesus? Because of the health plan or because they love Him?

My daughter has been suffering gastric pain, night and day for a week now. Her words are it is like torture. In a sense it is but it is also failure of a complex system which we do not understand that well, and it has wobblies. Now is the answer to this to get miraculous intervention to make our lives easier or learning to deal with mortality. Gods will is for us to deal with mortality. We reap what we sow, whether we understand it or not.
Have daughter see doctor. That sounds like it could be gallstones. (Other choices too, but it could be gallstones.) And, if it 24/7 pain, but the doctor wants her to get one test at a time, know that she can get put in the hospital to get all the tests (and there are many, and most of them are downright uncomfortable, but it beats waiting for weeks and months) in 2-3 days. She just has to be pushy on the urgency of finding what's wrong. Had I known that, my tests could have taken three days, not 5 months!
 
E

Edwin

Guest
#55
I hate that there has been much confusion about Gods Healing because of many taking scripture out of context and leaving the Holy Spirit out of the interpretation of scripture. The truth of scripture must always be taken from Gods word only because He does not change! Gods Healing is for everyone and anyone who would receive it. A lot of people want Gods healing only to be for Christians but that is not so. For instance if that is the truth how many people were Christians that were healed when Jesus was on the earth. If you want to Know More about the answer to your post Please let me Know.
 
R

Rudimental

Guest
#56
When it comes to prayer. I like to go into knowing that God responds in 1 of 3 ways.

It's either

Yes.
No.
Or Wait.

However when He says yes its always in a much better way than we thought it could be.

When He says no, its for our own good because He knows whats best so we can find peace in that.

And when He says wait, its because He has something much much better in store for us instead.

I'd even go as far as to say that when it comes to Gods intimate love for us all, that when He takes something away from you, its not to punish you, its not even to test you, but its to replace it with something much much better that far outweighs anything you could have considered. I don't know how true that is but I'd like to think in some cases it would be. :)

God is good.

Cheers!