Healing through the Son

preacher4truth · Apr 1, 2018

Wait a minute...God has actually stricken people with sickness. Not that I agree with jm's heresies, which are many, but biblically speaking God has done this. As to jm, she is far off track still as usual with her false teachings.

To say anyone is not right with God because they're not healed? Just stop with that blatant lie.

tourist · Apr 1, 2018

preacher4truth said:

It's either a lie or a serious misconception. There are many of great spiritual faith that may or not be healed in their lifetime but in a time of God's choosing for the ultimate benefit of those to be healed and the glory of God.

Stunnedbygrace · Apr 1, 2018

Rev 21:4 speaks of the new heavens and earth and how there will be no more tears, death, pain. My translation doesn't specifically say no more sickness, but its implied to me.

I agree with the poster who said, okay, you explain away Paul's thorn as not sickness. Fine. But what of Timothy's stomach problems? Why did Paul say take a little wine for it? Why didn't Paul just heal him?

Its also been mentioned that Jesus prayed, please take this cup of suffering from me but your will, not mine.

All of these, to my mind, fight the teaching that we should never have any sickness or suffering.

You have to take all the verses in tension to the verses that are pleasant to your ears. You have to consider them all together or your view is lopsided.

UnderGrace · Apr 1, 2018

If a believer is always healed what will they die of?

I asked this of another person on BDF, and that person said that the body would just wear out and they would die, but it would not be from disease.

Is this what you believe for yourself?

Locutus · Apr 1, 2018

UnderGrace said:

Arguing with a KJV onlyist...

Nehemiah6 · Apr 1, 2018

joaniemarie said:

Did you know that Jesus *zapped* Herod with a wasting disease and he was killed? He was eaten with worms for his blasphemy (Acts 12: 21-23). Did you know that the Holy Ghost *zapped* Ananias and Sapphira and they died prematurely for lying to the Holy Spirit? Paul's thorn "in the flesh" (in his body) was some kind of serious physical disability which never left him, even after he had prayed.

Epaphroditus was a very faithful and godly brother who was given a serious sickness "nigh unto death". There are thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of Christians suffering with sicknesses, diseases, and disabilities, but all the WOFers will point fingers and scoff at their "little faith". And then promote faith healing so that they can live in mansions.

If you want to know how God worked -- and works today -- DO YOUR HOMEWORK. All you do is regurgitate the false teachings and empty platitudes of false teachers, even after being told to cease and desist.

joaniemarie · Apr 2, 2018

The thread was started to not only talk about healing but all the other promises we have by faith. While we are here in these mortal bodies we will have tribulations that is for sure Jesus told us this. They come from the world... the flesh ... and the devil. They do not come from God.

So it's not been stated that we don't ever get sick. We will have these issues to deal with and Jesus has given us many great and precious promises to maintain the victory we have IN Him. The many posts before this page clearly explained this. But those of you who didn't read the posts didn't know that. I hope you will read what was said by me and those videos and posts before assuming something was said that was not said.

The Bible says that we deal with illnesses and the other tribulations that come at us the same way., by grace through faith in the finished work of Jesus. These attacks will come and we have been equipped to deal with them by the power of the Holy Spirit and the authority we have as the righteousness of God in Christ. These are all gifts we daily learn to use by walking in our new creation in Christ. It's a wonderful truth to find out!! The daily calling for us believers is to walk and live habitually int he Holy Spirit....

Gal.5:16

[SUP]16 [/SUP]But I say, walk and live [habitually] in the [Holy] Spirit [responsive to and controlled and guided by the Spirit]; then you will certainly not gratify the cravings and desires of the flesh (of human nature without God).

So., to clarify I'll post those again. This is why I cut and paste because it's already been stated many times but those who are angry misrepresent what is being said and those who come on don't see the posts prior to the misrepresentations. So I do pray anyone who reads these posts will take that into consideration.

Didymous · Apr 2, 2018

Again, since you answered concerning Paul-what about Timothy and Epaphroditus? No answer, if none is offered, usually means you have no answer.

joaniemarie · Apr 2, 2018

Didymous said:

Didy., I just got back on this evening so you are incorrect yet again. I would suggest you read what I already posted as well before assuming so many things that are wrong.

Didymous · Apr 2, 2018

joaniemarie said:

Here is an example of how healing is working in those who have walked out their faith in this matter much longer than I have. I'm learning by seeing the familiar experiences my brothers and sisters have gone through too. Below is a short letter describing what I'm learning about and have also been experiencing. I speak in tongues and many things are going on that I have no idea about concerning the workings of the HolySpirit. He makes sense of the things I don't understand. And He has worked out many things I had no idea how to work out. I will always pray in tongues because it's a gift we were given for such times as this.

Steadfast believing in the face of what we don't see is what we are called to. It's the walk of faith and how our new spirit man lives here on earth. We pay attention to our new creation more than we do our flesh. This is what I'm learning. And I share it gladly here.

.... I do ask for things – these days I seem to be asking for a lot of wisdom! – but I don’t ask for things provided in the atonement. Let me give you an example. The other day I had a pain in my body, so I prayed much like I’ve described in these last two posts. I thanked God for the healing and I rebuked the pain. I declared life and health over that part of my body.
However, even though the pain wasn’t bothering me at the time, I didn’t feel like I could stop praying just there. I had a sense of “wait, Son, I’ve got something special just for you.” I didn’t know what to do next, so I asked the Holy Spirit for insight. I also began to pray in tongues. Within 10 seconds a scripture address came to mind. I read it and saw there was a part that I had never noticed that spoke exactly and specifically right to my particular need.

Call it a revelation, a rhema, the result was I was super-encouraged. I began to declare that particular promise over myself with boldness. I hope you’ll understand when I say it just “felt” powerful. (There’s no rhema without power – Luke 1:37, ASV.) So the short answer to your question – do you ask or declare? – is, it’s both: I have faith in His finished work but there are plenty of times when I ask for direction, insight, understanding on how to tackle a particular problem. It just seems to be the smart thing to do because while we only ever have partial knowledge, He knows exactly what’s going on in a situation and why things may be taking longer than they should.

When did Jesus ever pray in tongues? Surely, if He wanted us to do that-He would've left an example in the Bible somewhere? In the Gospels? No. In the rest of the new testament? No. You went from healing every time-unless you don't believe, to praying in tongues-which Jesus never did. Really?

joaniemarie · Apr 2, 2018

joaniemarie said:

“I have been asking God to heal me for years. I don’t understand why He hasn’t me. I guess it’s not God’s will for me to be healed.”

If you’ve been following this short series on prayer, I’m hoping you can spot at least two things wrong with these statements. First, it is always God’s will to heal the sick just as it is always His will to save the lost. Jesus died to save us and His atonement provides for our forgiveness, healing, deliverance and provision. Second, there’s no power in asking God to do something He’s already done. As we saw in Part 1, Jesus instructed us to “heal the sick,” not “ask God to heal the sick.” And as we saw in Part 2, Jesus wants us to speak directly to our mountains.

On my journey I have discovered that there is a huge difference between the traditional view of prayer and what the Bible teaches. We have already looked at six differences. Here is one more:

Traditional: Sometimes the answer is no
Biblical: God is faithful!

Some people will tell you that God hasn’t answered your prayers because you are not doing enough works. They’ll say you’re out of fellowship with Him or you haven’t pounded the gates of heaven or you haven’t confessed all of your sins. Others will try and manage your expectations with doctrine based on their experience rather than His word. Listen to these sorts of people and I guarantee it’ll neutralize your faith.

We need to rest in Jesus’ promise that whatever we ask in His name we shall receive (Jn 14:13, 16:24). “Ask me,” says Jesus, “and I will do it” (Jn 14:14). What is the key to doing the works and greater works of Jesus? It is simple faith in Jesus Christ (Jn 14:12). But sometimes we pray and there is no immediate manifestation. The sickness lingers. Does that mean God said no? Not according to Matthew 21:22 and John 16:24. Let God be true and every man a liar! God’s faithfulness is the one constant in the equation. He is the Rock on which we stand.

Daniel famously prayed two prayers that were both answered instantly. But the manifestation of one prayer took a few minutes, while the other took three weeks (Dan 9:23, 10:12). What was the variable? Not God! In Daniel’s case there was demonic resistance to the second prayer.

One reason why our problems sometimes linger is because the enemy is challenging our authority. He wants to see how serious we are. What should we do? Should we quit? Should we ask God to take over? No. Be encouraged. The devil will flee when we resist him and we do that by submitting to God and His rock-solid promises (Jas 4:7). That sword in your hand isn’t for decorative purposes. Use it! Here’s Andrew Wommack in his book A Better Way to Pray:

“When I minister healing to someone, I’ll pray for them two, three, four, or more times. I don’t care! I’m willing to pray for them until I rub all the hair off of their head! However, I’m not going back to God and saying, ‘Father, it didn’t work the first time. Let it work now, please!’ No! I believe it happened because God is faithful. He gave, but something’s wrong with our receiver. So I work on it. If the devil withstands one dose of the Holy Spirit, I’ll shoot him again! Just like Jesus did with the blind man of Bethsaida (Mark 8:22-26), I pray until I see the answer manifest. You need to get this attitude that God is faithful and He’s already met your need before you ever had it.” (p.125)

Understand that we’re not fighting to get the victory; we’re fighting to enforce the victory that Christ has already won. Satan and sickness were disarmed at the cross (Col 2:15). That’s why we’re called to stand rather than advance (Eph 6:13). We’re not taking ground, we’re holdingground that’s already ours through Christ. So stand firm and declare God’s word over your circumstances. Your tongue holds the power of life and death (Pro 18:21), so proclaim life and grace and health and freedom over your situation.

This taken from Paul Ellis and I agree with him. If I surround myself with unbelief I will not be "thinking on these things" We are told to hold to the truth. I'd encourage anyone who is not finding answers to think differently about what you have been taught about healing. Dare to step out in faith. I can only share what has been true for me and Jesus has healed me and IS healing me each day. And He will you too.

Reposted for clarification...

joaniemarie · Apr 2, 2018

Didymous said:

If you want to talk about speaking in tongues that is probably best for another thread since you are asking already about 2 other questions.

Didymous · Apr 2, 2018

I asked about tongues because you posted some persons account of praying for healing and then praying in tongues, and so on...but you still haven't answered my question about Timothy and Epaphroditus. Do you think they didn't have enough faith to be healed? Or that they didn't believe on Jesus to heal them? Or that they never prayed for healing? I guess I'm thankful that you answered 'nope' when I asked if you believed anyone we pray for would be healed, as long as we didn't have unbelief. Since you clarified that, I still have to wonder at you agenda for posting Dan's video in the first place. I don't care about whether or not you and others argue, or call names-or don't. I sincerely want to know what you wanted to make known by posting Dan's video. If it was that we need to see the Father through Jesus-then say so, and I'll be satisfied. While I doubt many here don't see the Father through Jesus, I can at least understand then your intention. Otherwise, I have to assume that some of the things your detractors are saying are true, and you then lose any credibility to me. What I most want you to understand is this: Either post your own thoughts, or be very specific as to why you're posting the thoughts of others through videos. The written word is an inaccurate means of communication at best, so be clear, please-tjat others may at least have a chance to even know what you meant before deciding to accept or reject it. The reason I stress this so much is because I haven't seen much you post that was clear enough to understand. Because of that, I don't know whether or not anything you post is noteworthy. I don't care which televangelists you watch or listen to-I want to know what you-JoanieMarie-want to convey.

Blain · Apr 2, 2018

BenFTW said:

Even if there was a little unbelief in the believer since when was that an issue for Jesus? Remember the father of a child that was possessed? The father asked him to save his child if he could and Jesus replied if I can? if you believe all things are possible and the man replied i do believe help me with my unbelief. Even though this man had a little doubt that never stopped Jesus, it only takes the faith of a mustard seed not a great oak tree. This is of course not to say that there may be reasons why the believer did not receive healing that was asked for but my issue is with the name it and claim it thing because I have seen first hand in many people including myself the kind of damage it does. As for how much faith and doubt in the mix is concerned that is another topic entirely as there are more variables than just faith and doubt

joaniemarie · Apr 2, 2018

Didymous said:

Since you haven't already looked at or read the many posts I already posted from my own opinions without any other cut and paste., I doubt you will see it now. I'm not trying to be credible to you since you already don't believe me for what I've ALREADY posted.

As far as Timothy and Epaphroditus I have no doubt they got ill just like we do today. And I have no doubt they learned how to trust the finished work of Jesus - Just like we need to do today. I also think it took time for them to learn -- Just like we need to do today. God had mercy on Epaphroditus and healed him just like He does today for us because of the blood of Christ and the righteousness given to him. Just like He does for us today.

I'm sure that the enemy probably caused these sicknesses as he did so many things in the early church when Paul was being pestered by "thorns" in his flesh - those people who were against Paul that the devil sent his way. But God told Paul - My grace is sufficient ... just like it is sufficient for us today.

Just as we were saved by grace through faith.,, that is how we live the victorious life... by grace through faith. Just like they did back then.

joaniemarie · Apr 2, 2018

joaniemarie said:

Ever since James wrote that “faith without works is dead,” Christians have been busying themselves with all sorts of busy-ness to prove to themselves that they really, positively do have faith. But much of what passes for Christian works could be done by anyone, with or without faith.

Let’s not kid ourselves. If what we’re doing is humanly possible, it can’t be a work of faith. I don’t say that to make you feel bad, but to free you to do great exploits! Faith is for moving mountains. Faith is for healing the sick, raising the dead and otherwise demonstrating the gospel. To be specific, faith is for doing the works and greater works of Jesus:

The person who trusts me will not only do what I’m doing but even greater things, because I, on my way to the Father, am giving you the same work to do that I’ve been doing. You can count on it. (Jn 14:12, MSG)

I suspect the chief reason why many Christians live no different from their unsaved neighbors is they don’t know about the awesome authority that God has given us. So instead of healing the sick, as Jesus instructed us to do, they’re asking God to heal the sick. Instead of proclaiming life over their hurts, they’re complaining and speaking death over themselves.

In this short series on prayer, we have contrasted the Biblical way with the traditional way to pray. In Part 1 we saw that there is a difference between praying with hope and praying with faith. In Part 2 we learned that faith doesn’t move God – He’s already moved! In Part 3 we saw from scripture that answered prayers are sometimes delayed by the devil.

The enemy is surely opposed to our prayers, but he’s probably not the main reason why our prayers aren’t answered. No, the hindrance to most of our prayers lies between our ears. The problem is we don’t appreciate what God has already done for us. More to the point, we don’t know how awesome and powerful is the One who now lives within us.

Children, you belong to God, and you have defeated these enemies. God’s Spirit is in you and is more powerful than the one that is in the world. (1 Jn 4:4 CEV)

Who do you think you are?

In Part 3 the punch-line was resist the devil. Here’s today punch-line: Renew your mind and learn to interpret your circumstances through the finished work of the cross. What do I mean by that? I mean it should be normal for you to see yourself as completely forgiven, sanctified, righteous, healthy and prosperous – all because of Jesus.
Is this how you see yourself? Here’s a simple way to find out. When you get sick, which of the following statements best describes how you respond?
(1) “I am sick but I’m going to ask God to heal me.”
(2) “I am healthy but the devil’s trying to rob me.”

If you chose response No.1 then you’re starting from a place of defeat. By asking God to do something He’s already done, you are confessing ignorance of what Jesus has accomplished on the cross. Maybe you’re not sure of what He’s done. Then you had better find out because faith, by definition, is being sure (He 11:1).

How can you be sure when you’re unsure? Look at what you’re saying: I am sick… The focus is squarely on your physical condition. Do you know what the King Jimmy Bible calls it when we are more mindful of our physical circumstances than God’s word? Carnal mindedness. And you know what that means, right?

To be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. (Rms 8:6, KJV)

Do you know that you can be in the Spirit yet walk after the flesh? This happens when you put your feelings (what you see and hear etc.) ahead of your faith in God’s word. In effect, you are trusting in your praying performance instead of resting in His finished work. Pray like this and you will reap nothing because your faith is misplaced. Instead of standing on what Christ has done, you’re essentially saying God needs to act again and He won’t unless I first do something. You have more faith in you’re doing than in what Jesus has done.

If you want to release life and peace into our circumstances, be spiritually minded. That doesn’t mean “think spiritual thoughts.” To be spiritually minded means be led by the spirit. Your renewed spirit, like the Holy Spirit, already trusts God regardless of the circumstances. To be spiritually minded is to walk by faith, not by sight. So speak to your condition and say, “By His stripes I have been healed” (1 Pe 2:24).

If you chose response No.2 then you’re starting from the place of victory. You might declare, “As He is so am I in this world. The old man who suffered sin’s curse is dead and buried and I am a new creation. Sin and sickness no longer have dominion over me.” I’m not asking you to deny your physical reality but to have faith in a higher reality. I’m not saying the problem you are facing isn’t nothing; I’m saying that this Jesus who lives in you is Really Something! Here’s Andrew Wommack writing in Grace – The Power of the Gospel:

I’ve changed. I know now that I’m not the sinner trying to become holy. I am the righteous whom Satan is trying to make unholy. I’m not the sick trying to get well. I am the well that the devil is trying to make sick. I’m not the poor trying to be prosperous. I am the prosperous that the Enemy is trying to make poor. This is a totally different attitude and mindset. But I’ve found it much easier to fight from the position of victory than to try to fight to obtain a position of victory. It’s infinitely easier to release something I already have than to go get something I don’t. (pp.117-8)

When you’re sick your flesh will pull in one direction (“I need healing!”) but your spirit will pull in the other (“By His stripes I am healed!”). Flesh and spirit are opposed to each other and you will have to choose (Gal 5:17). The carnally minded believer will heed the flesh, but the spiritually minded believer will heed God’s word. This is not a question of having more or less faith – you already have the same measure of faith as Jesus (2 Pet 1:1). This is about putting your faith to work and releasing what God has already given you.

Plant this seed

In this short series I’ve given you some keys on how to pray effectively. I have given you truth in seed form. Perhaps you’ve been blessed reading these posts. Maybe you even clicked the “like” button or forwarded posts to your friends. But understand that nothing will change in your life unless this seed takes root in your heart and grows. It’s now up to you. Are you content to live no differently from your unsaved neighbors? Or do you want to see the Kingdom come and His will done in your world?

Be warned that neither the devil nor your flesh will like what you’ve read here (Ga 5:17). Jesus said the devil is a thief who likes to steal seed (Mk 4:15). Right about now this thief will be suggesting you go visit Facebook or he’ll be reminding you to take care of some task that really needs to get done. He’ll do whatever it takes to get your focus off Christ and the cross. But we are not ignorant of his schemes.

I began this series with Wommack and I’ll finish with him. Here he is writing in Spirit, Soul and Body:

I’d confess aloud, ‘By His stripes I was healed.’ My body would counter, ‘Oh no you’re not!’ Then I’d answer, ‘Yes I am – the Word says so!’… You will have to overcome the same conflict! You don’t just say, ‘All right, I see the truth. Flesh, I now renounce you and choose to walk by the spirit!’ No, it’ll be a traumatic experience when you turn around and head the other direction. Your mind and emotions have been indulged now for many years. They’ve always said that whatever you see is more real than what’s invisible. There’s going to be a fight. (p.117)

The good news is it’s a fight you can win, for greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world. Have faith in Jesus! Speak to your mountains! Heal the sick! Rebuke that storm! Change the world!

I think this is an EXCELLENT explanation and covers so many of the things I've tried to share here that have helped and encouraged me over the last year. But I can't compel anyone to read this since some of you are totally against any kind of different teaching you received already about healing. I'm sorry for that because for me this has been such a blessing to learn.

God doesn't send us sickness or death. God send His Son to give us the REMEDY for sin., sickness and death. Those ugly things come from the sin that's already in the world that comes at us., it comes at us from our old flesh that is still with us but has no control over us.. we must learn to "master it" Jesus saved us from the power of sin but we still deal with the presence of sin. From those 3 places;

Tribulations come from 3 places

1. The world

2. The flesh

3. The devil

Not our loving heavenly Father.

Stunnedbygrace · Apr 2, 2018

joaniemarie said:

Since you haven't already looked at or read the many posts I already posted from my own opinions without any other cut and paste., I doubt you will see it now. I'm not trying to be credible to you since you already don't believe me for what I've ALREADY posted.

As far as Timothy and Epaphroditus I have no doubt they got ill just like we do today. And I have no doubt they learned how to trust the finished work of Jesus - Just like we need to do today. I also think it took time for them to learn -- Just like we need to do today. God had mercy on Epaphroditus and healed him just like He does today for us because of the blood of Christ and the righteousness given to him. Just like He does for us today.

I'm sure that the enemy probably caused these sicknesses as he did so many things in the early church when Paul was being pestered by "thorns" in his flesh - those people who were against Paul that the devil sent his way. But God told Paul - My grace is sufficient ... just like it is sufficient for us today.

Just as we were saved by grace through faith.,, that is how we live the victorious life... by grace through faith. Just like they did back then.

So you are saying (question) that Timothy and Epaphroditus got sick because they had not yet learned to fully trust in the finished work of Jesus? This is what I have seen from your post. Have I understood you correctly?

Stunnedbygrace · Apr 2, 2018

So if I did understand you correctly, you are saying that it's a trust problem (a faith problem) that caused their sickness?

Stunnedbygrace · Apr 2, 2018

And, by the way, I have watched the videos and I have read all of your posts.

wolfwint · Apr 2, 2018

joaniemarie said:

I think this is an EXCELLENT explanation and covers so many of the things I've tried to share here that have helped and encouraged me over the last year. But I can't compel anyone to read this since some of you are totally against any kind of different teaching you received already about healing. I'm sorry for that because for me this has been such a blessing to learn.

God doesn't send us sickness or death. God send His Son to give us the REMEDY for sin., sickness and death. Those ugly things come from the sin that's already in the world that comes at us., it comes at us from our old flesh that is still with us but has no control over us.. we must learn to "master it" Jesus saved us from the power of sin but we still deal with the presence of sin. From those 3 places;

Tribulations come from 3 places

1. The world

2. The flesh

3. The devil

Not our loving heavenly Father.

That means you will sin, So long you are Living. After your death you will leave the flesh behind you. You never will be sick anymore ore have pain, because God gives you a new body, made for the eternity.

Healing through the Son

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