Hebrews 12: the Fath of the Saints!

AnandaHya · May 27, 2012

ok. however many of the dead sea scrolls are not accepted as gospel by most Christians but as gnostic text. gnostic as in the historic sect name. but that's kind of off topic. I'm waiting for cflutz or greenie to post more scripture.

I believe that cflutz uses the Textus Recptus scrolls because it is historically the one we have had available the longest even if many do no think its the oldest. however age does not testify to accuracy because in the scriptures themselves they speak of people who bring a DIFFERENT Jesus even at the time the letters were written.

I think everyone should look at what is said and research what is discussed.

it would be wonderful for fruitful discussion if we all understand what the other person says even if don't always agree. i would rather someone is able to clearly outline what I have said and then clearly state where their beliefs are different then waste time debunking another's mistaken beliefs about what I believe.

cfultz3 · May 27, 2012

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[FONT=Georgia, serif]Heb 12:15 Looking after (inspecting, overseeing)one another so that not any would be falling short (coming behind) from(distance) that grace of God1, so that not any root of bitterness would be sprouting up which could cause trouble and through (channel of an act) that root, many could have become tainted (contaminated, polluted, stained).[/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, serif]Heb 12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled; [/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, serif]Notes:[/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, serif]that grace of God = although it could be said as 'the grace of God', I believe it is speaking about that purification obtained through the chastisement of the Spirit.[/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, serif]Verbs:[/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, serif]looking after (Present Active Participle) = knowing that all who finish the race will receive the prize, we are freed in having to become the sole winner and should run the race as a team, helping others to be winners too. Note that this isnot in the sense of being driven from one's course (G1601), but as runners upon that tract, we sometimes fall behind for whatever reason, and thus, should be helped by others.[/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, serif]sprouting up (Present Active Participle) =from the weakened brother who sees the rest of the team so far ahead, that is why we are to be looking after one another to encourage them to continue, because if we do not, they may fall so far behind in the race and out of resentment, many would become tainted. So, it should be said, "Yes, we are our brothers' keepers Mr. Cain."[/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, serif]become tainted (Aorist Passive Subjunctive) = Because it is a possibility of a Christian becoming soiled, it is ever more important to be your brothers' keeper, knowing that the one who shall save a soul from death shall hide a multitude of sins (falls caused from potholes). [/FONT]

cfultz3 · May 27, 2012

Heb 12:16 so that not any woud be a fornicator1 or become heathenish2 as Esau, who, for one portion of food, handed over his birthrights (MV: to his hurt).

Heb 12:16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.

Notes:
1 - fornicator = having become bittered, there is a change of them trading their birthright as children of God for wordly pleasure (cheating on their bridegroom). Comparavitely, Esau traded his inheri rights for the enjoyment of the now.
2 - heathenish = crossing over the threshold of the temple, as it was with the Jews, and not being allowed back in. As Esau was not allowed "back in" on his blessing he was to have had received from his birthright.

iamsoandso · May 27, 2012

cfutz3,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Cain said "who am i my brothers keeper?",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,again Christ said to the many of these who are of Adam,,,,,,,,matt. 23;8 for ye are all brothers",,,,,,,,," who then are their brothers keepers???and was Christ the son of god the keeper of his brothers??????seeing them in a great catastrophe,,,,,,,,,,then so in the work of the salvation of the "brother",,,,,,,,redeeming them from their errs????????,,,who is "the brothers keeper"??????

cfultz3 · May 27, 2012

iamsoandso said:

From Hebrew 12:15, it is fellow brothes who are to help each other from falling away from the faith. If one sees another falling, would it not be instictive to help that one up. So likewise, in that race which is set before us, seeing that all who do finish shall receive the reward, what of it if one shall stop and help his fellow up, encourage him, hold his hand as they both continue to run. In faith, we are our brothers' keepers, and our Brother, who is the Foreruinner for us all, is everyone's Keeper, as the perfect Shepherd.

GreenNnice · May 27, 2012

cfultz3 said:

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Quote:

Heb 12:15επισκοπουντεςG1983 V-PAP-NPM - (looking after one another (inspecting, overseeing)) μηG3361 PRT-N - (so thatnot would be (lest)(qual. neg.)) τιςG5100 X-NSM - (any) υστερωνG5302 V-PAP-NSM - (falling short (coming behind)) αποG575 PREP - (from (distance)) τηςχαριτοςG5485 N-GSF - (that grace) τουθεουG2316 N-GSM - (of the God) μηG3361 PRT-N - (so thatnot would be (lest)(qual. neg.)) τιςG5100 X-NSF - (any) ριζαG4491 N-NSF - (root) πικριαςG4088 N-GSF - (of bitterness) ανωG507 ADV - (up) φυουσαG5453 V-PAP-NSF - (sprouting) ενοχληG1776 V-PAS-3S - (which could cause trouble) καιG2532 CONJ - (and) διαG1223 PREP - (through (channel of an act)) ταυτηςG3778 D-GSF - (that root) μιανθωσινG3392 V-APS-3P - (many could have become tainted (contaminated, polluted, stained)) πολλοιG4183 A-NPM - (many)

Heb 12:15 Looking after (inspecting, overseeing)one another so that not any would be falling short (coming behind) from(distance) that grace of God1,so that not any root of bitterness would be apelotonar up which could cause trouble and through (channel of an act) that root,many could have become tainted (contaminated, polluted, stained).

Heb 12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled

KEEP THE PEACE ! Your eternity depends on it,, your brothers and sisters in Christ COULD fall from grace, that is therefore a choosing by one (or many) to fall away (depart) from their secured-salvation life with Christ. This falling away does not mean you are suddenly unsaved,, as scripture verbatim states, where sin ABOUNDS grace aboUnDs more . But, there is a limit to grace, God gave us grace and mercy and salvation through the finished works of Jesus. His works ARE finished but we are NOT a finished work until we get to Heaven, and, NO, this does speak of works for salvation, but, OH, my Christ peeps, there IS much, much work to be done, and, we WILL work, (Jesus said what to Peter regarding really loving Jesus? ”Feed My sheep) in many ways, reaching the unsaved, and, as cee says, we should, no, truly, we MUST make peace and show Love of God in us to our bickering, unpeaced, bitter Christ bros and Sis, for this will.effect you. Note the word 'any,' which says any root of bitterness can affect you, so, nip it in bud so that it does NOT hurt you, and, thus, consequence a diseminating defilement of many.
Warning, warning, warning, be at peace with ALL men, christians, catholics, mormons, lutherans, presbyterians, FAOG, SDA, COC AOG, SB, Unity (reincarnation), all. Let The Spirit most peacably lead you to this Truth

Words:

GreenNnice · May 27, 2012

Words of 12:15 ,( edit ran out on me): Looking to fail to troubling to defiled. The present actions spake here dominatingly but their is an action in the past, resultant of our not helping keep the peace with all men and overseeing those (weak) in this area of understanding just how eternally important it is to KEEP THE PEACE

Defiled is what will happen consequently of our failing to keep the peace, and, note God''s grace LEAVES those that burn inside with hatred , or, even just simple bitterness or even dislike. All, even the simplest deconstruction of the 3 mentioned--dislike--bring risky disaccord to your life, and, others. You know the phrase....One bad apple spoils, infects, spreads,springs, troubles defiles, the whole barrel.
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Quote:

Heb 12:16μηG3361 PRT-N - (so thatnot would be (lest)(qual. neg.)) τιςG5100 X-NSM - (any) πορνοςG4205 N-NSM - (a fornicator) ηG2228 PRT - (or) βεβηλοςG952 A-NSM - (become heathenish) ωςG5613 ADV - (as) ησαυG2269 N-PRI - (Esau) οςG3739 R-NSM - (who) αντιG473 PREP - (for) βρωσεωςG1035 N-GSF - (of food) μιαςG1520 A-GSF - (one portion) απεδοτοG591 V-2AMI-3S - (who handed over (MV: to his hurt)) ταπρωτοτοκιαG4415 N-APN-S - (the birthrights) αυτουG846 P-GSM - (his)

Heb 12:16 so that not any woud be a fornicator1 or become heathenish2 as Esau, who, for one portion of food, handed over his birthrights (MV: to his hurt).

Heb 12:16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.

Wow! This 'peace' thing is STILL the theme, and, so it goes, explaining that for us to have FAITH in Christ that will not be troubled, risking being defiled, risking a failing of God''s grace in our life, we need peace. Now, we go to a new 'transformation' reality, for IF peace is jeopardized in our lives then trouble can result within The midst of who ? The believers.

And, what kind of trouble can result? A fellow brother becomine DEFILED and 'fornicator' or profane person. So, how important do you think God is saying it is for us to keep peace with everyone? Transformationally ! A loving God--following brother in Christ or sister in Christ could become unruly from peace allowed to rumble uncaught out of his heart . Oversee your brothers and sisters, brothers and sisters , diligently, painstakingly, to keep them from selling their birthright (soul) for a 'song.'

This speaks of unpeacefulness leading to weakness and opting for the pleasure of the moment (bowl of soup) instead of the far-off pleasure of your seed (birthright) being might to future generations.

Words: More warning ! 'Lest' . Present tense then with 'there be,' . The word 'any' might seem insignificant or low in meaning, but, no, 'any' is followed by 'fornicator' and 'profane,' any refers to not many needed to become unpeaceful making a band of believers. Just ONE apple, any apple, none in particular, just one, to adulterate and defile all. Any.

cfultz3 · May 28, 2012

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Georgia, serif]Heb 12:17[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] For you* are to had known how that afterwards he, wishing to have also inherited the blessing, was rejected, seeing that he found [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]no [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif](abs. neg.)[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] place of repentance, although having sought it our with tears.[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Georgia, serif]Heb 12:17[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, serif]Verbs:[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Georgia, serif]had known (peRfect Active iMperative) = [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]a command to make themselves to have understood their responsibility of looking after a weak or falling brother/sister. This verse tells us that if one becomes so bitter in being left behind in the race, that there is a possibility of that one coming to the point of total apostate, handing over his birthrights as a child of God. Somewheres in Scripture, it mentions that it is impossible for those who were once enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and were made partakes of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the world to come, IF THEY SHALL FALLY AWAY, to renew them again unto repentance. How then can you not help a fellow brother/sister in their race, knowing that once having traded their birthrights (apostate) they will [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]not [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif](absolute negative)[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] be able to find a place of repentance, just as Esau? We are our brothers' keepers. So, let us pick them up and run the race together.[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Georgia, serif]was rejected (Aorist Passive Indicative) =[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] the receiving of a past action, with emphasis on the action. Let no one think that they can handover their birthrights for worldy pleasure, it would be impossible for that one to find a place for repentance, EVEN THOUGH if they come crying with tears. This verse and the verses I quoted above are speaking about apostating, the handing over of all things pertaining to salvation back to God and receiving the god of this world as your god through sensational pleasure. [/FONT][/FONT]

cfultz3 · May 28, 2012

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[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Georgia, serif]Heb 12:18[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Seeing that you* had [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]not[/FONT] (abs. neg.) [FONT=Georgia, serif]come towards a manipulated mountain having had also been set ablazed[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] (enveloped)[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] with fire, and gloom, and darkness, and a whirlwind.[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Georgia, serif]Heb 12:18[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, serif]Verbs:[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Georgia, serif]had come towards (2peRfect Active Indicative) =[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]the subject performing an one time event. Verses 22-24 tells us what sort of mountain we, as Christians, have approached. Those under the old Covenant approached (and still do) Mount Sinai (to receive Law) in the physical, but those under the new Covenant approach Mount Zion (the city of the great King, the place of His rest) spiritually. I am sure that there is a lot to be said of this, but we should remain in context of this chapter.[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, serif]Treasury of Scriptural Knowledge:[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Georgia, serif]Exo_19:12-19[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif], [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]Exo_20:18[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif], [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]Exo_24:17[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]; [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]Deu_4:11[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif], [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]Deu_5:22-26[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]; [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]Rom_6:14[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif], [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]Rom_8:15[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]; [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]2Ti_1:7[/FONT][/FONT]

cfultz3 · May 28, 2012

Heb 12:19 And a sound of a trumpet and a voice of utterances. From which voice, those having heard, begged not to have another word (subject of discourse) added (under the notion of annexed) towards them.

Heb 12:19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:

Verb:

having heard (Aorist Active Participle) = They who were under the Law where under fear of death. but we, under grace, have not been given that spirit of fear but the Spirit by which we call God Abba and by which, we are able to approach God. They who are under law, fear losing salvation by disobedience of any given law, but we, those who are under grace, can approach the Throne of Grace, as compared to a throne of law, without the threat of death hanging over us as our purpose of obedience, but obedient nonetheless from God having bestowed the love which He has for His Son upon us.

to have added (Aorist Passive iNfinitiy) = With each law added, they felt more and more condemned (having an adverse sentencing added to them) knowing that even if one aspect was broken, then the whole essence of the Law was broken. But, under the new Covenant, the thing which was against us has been replaced with grace. And the mandatory sentencing in place for having broken any part of the Law, has been replaced with chastisement (tutorage, correction) under the Spirit. While under Law, one says, "I can no longer bear that which is against me. Thought I desire to do good in my flesh, I cannot". But, under Grace, the Spirit says, "Come, and I will lead you to God. Salvation is obtainable not through the physical do's and don'ts ordained in Law, but spiritually through God."

iamsoandso · May 28, 2012

yea cfultz3,,,,we are our brothers keeper,,,and it is the word given us from the from the great keeper of the brothers,,,,,,,,,,,"do you love me peter?,feed my sheep",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,those are the "verbs",,of the running of the race,,,that i saw the the old runners of the breathern,,,,,,,,running for the breathern(the race),,,,,,,,,,,,"love thy brother",,,,,,,they were in the midst of loving us,,,,,,,,,,,,"the verb of Hebrews chapter 12",,,,,,,,,,,"i am in the midst of loving you",,,,,,,,,,,,

cfultz3 · May 28, 2012

iamsoandso said:

Amen to that. It is all about the greatest commandment of them all: LOVE. Would love passively sit by and watch a fellow brother fall and to his dismay, exit the race in disgrace? Let us run the race knowing that we are not along. Not only do we have each other, here and above, but we also have the Spirit edging us on towards the finish line.

GreenNnice · May 28, 2012

Quote:

Heb 12:17ιστεG1492 V-RAM-2P - (you* are to had known) γαρG1063 CONJ - (for) οτιG3754 CONJ - (how that) καιG2532 CONJ - (also) μετεπειταG3347 ADV -(afterwards) θελωνG2309 V-PAP-NSM - (wishing) κληρονομησαιG2816 V-AAN - (to have inherited) τηνευλογιανG2129 N-ASF - (the blessing) απεδοκιμασθηG593 V-API-3S - (he was rejected) μετανοιαςG3341 N-GSF - (of repentance) γαρG1063 CONJ - (seeing that) τοπονG5117 N-ASM - (place) ουχG3756 PRT-N - (no (abs. neg.)) ευρενG2147 V-2AAI-3S - (he found) καιπερG2539 CONJ - (although) μεταG3326 PREP - (with) δακρυωνG1144 N-GPN - (tears) εκζητησαςG1567 V-AAP-NSM - (having sought out) αυτηνG846 P-ASF - (it)

Heb 12:17 For you* are to had known how that afterwards he, wishing to have also inherited the blessing, was rejected, seeing that he found no (abs. neg.) place of repentance, although having sought it our with tears.

Heb 12:17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though tears.

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Powerful, how cee defined 12:17 ( and all cee's work is Spirited ) , Esau was to receive the birthright inheritance blessing for his being a child of God, this priviledge from being the oldest child, over his younger brother, Jacob, but Esau traded the birthright of family power and blessing for a bowl of soup.
Once this was done, it could not be undone, no matter what of repentance and shed tears by Esau.
Esaus did realize his mistake, and, his salvation was not threatened but his earthly life changed greatly , from abundance to hungry. This amazes me, how can we humans be so minded to choose a bowl of soup over soup for longtime in the future. He sold out. God does NOT want us to sell out, we MUST keep the FAITH in Him, that God will provide. Lost EVERYTHING did Esau over a bowl of soup that took Esau how long to slurp? 5 minutes ? I guess that would depend on how big the bowl. God's provision for us is bottomless bowled, so to speak, don't sell YOUR SOUL (give in to sex ONE 'bowl' night because you're struggling working, or, because you lost your job, because something bad happened to you) Don't !

Words: 12:17 - 'For ye know now afterward ' this is sooo what a parent will say to a child don't you think?
the lesson learned is not 'great' like poor child of God, Esau, who lost what was his of to come inherited riches of birthright, but, yeah I can so see a mom giving this kind of scourging, or, a dad...

You: Now you know honey, why I said not to put your hand on the burner.'
Your kid crying and talking at same time: 'But mommy , it wasn't hot last time I touched it. Wahhh , it hurts so much mommy.'

You: Honey, I know it hurts, but no more amount of crying is going to make it burn any less. There is nothing we can do but what we have already done, iced it, bandaged it, as the doctor said on webmd.com .'
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Quote: Heb 12:18ουG3756 PRT-N - (not (abs. neg.)) γαρG1063 CONJ - (seeing that) προσεληλυθατεG4334 V-2RAI-2P - (you* had come towards) ψηλαφωμενωG5584 V-PPP-DSN - (towards being manipulated = manipulated) ορειG3735 N-DSN - (a mountain) καιG2532 CONJ - (also) κεκαυμενωG2545 V-RPP-DSN - (having had been set ablazed (enveloped)) πυριG4442 N-DSN - (with[fire) καιG2532 CONJ - (and) γνοφωG1105 N-DSM - (gloom) καιG2532 CONJ - (and) σκοτωG4655 N-DSM -(darkness) καιG2532 CONJ - (and) θυελληG2366 N-DSF - (a whirlwind)]

Heb 12:18 Seeing that you* had not (abs. neg.) come towards a manipulated mountain having had also been set ablazed (enveloped) with fire, and gloom, and darkness, and a whirlwind.

Heb 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness

You don't want to go to this mountain of blackness, for Esau went, his world changed from that one little stupid, unbelieving unfaithful, immediate-pleasure seeking decision. As I said, I believe Esau still.went to Heaven, I do not see any signs of bitterness toward God shown by Esau but I would need to read this story again for certainty. But, for certain, like after Adam and Eve sinned and their eyes were opened to their sin, so were Esau''s eyes painfully opened to a bleakness and darkness and fire . God provides all things and, is just. Esau made his own choice, and, it was NOT selling his soul to The Devil but it was selling his soul for a cheap, cheap, price for future affluence of his life on Earth, as I see it..

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Quote:

Heb 12:19καιG2532 CONJ - (and) σαλπιγγοςG4536 N-GSF - (of a trumpet) ηχωG2279 N-DSM - (a sound) καιG2532 CONJ - (and) φωνηG5456 N-DSF - (a voice) ρηματωνG4487 N-GPN - (of utterances)]ηςG3739 R-GSF - (fromwhich voice) οιακουσαντεςG191 V-AAP-NPM - (those having heard) παρητησαντοG3868 V-ADI-3P - (those begged (MD)) μηG3361 PRT-N - (not (qual. neg.)) προστεθηναιG4369 V-APN - (to have added (under the notion of annexed)) αυτοιςG846 P-DPM - (towards them) λογονG3056 N-ASM - (another word (subject of discourse))

Heb 12:19 And a sound of a trumpet and a voice of utterances. From which voice,those having heard, begged not to have another word (subject of discourse) added (under the notion of annexed) towards them.

Heb 12:19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more

The trumpet sound of joy will ring for no more graciously, for those, like esau,, who choose to say something is not important. God's voice of Love, reward, music , will depart from those who don't have faith that what God will be giving you is a great provision, like Isaac's blessing of abundant growth, food, wine that went to Jacob instead of the faithless Esau.

These two verses raise for much interpretation and questions . Genesis says, 'Jacob I loved, Esau I hated.'
Esau chose to completely de-value God''s silver platter of blessing for him, and, God says that when one steps their oen way, He can further entice that stepper to go off The cliff, as they already are hardened. Pharaoh is a great example of someone God raised up and made an example of as Pharoah's heart was hard against God before God 'hardened' his heart and Pharoah kept keeping God''s people (Israelites) against God''s will, so, God made MANY get elected to believe (choice was theirs) from the then sequence of horrible plagues God brought down on Pharoah.

cfultz3 · May 29, 2012

　
Heb 12:20 seeing that they were not(abs. neg.) being able to bear the thing being commanded. And if so much as a beast would have touched (under the notion of manipulating (eat grass, paw prints, etc...)) the mountain, it shall have been stoned or thrusted through with a dart.

KJV Heb 12:20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:

Heb 12:21 And the spectacle was so frightful that Moses said, "I am terrified and trembling".

KJV Heb 12:21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake

Notes of verse 20-21:
They received the Law through fear of death, we receive grace through the Kingship of the Son (next verse).

cfultz3 · May 29, 2012

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Heb 12:22 But rather, you* had come towards Mount Zion, even the living God's city, heavenly Jerusalem, and towards myriads of angels,[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Notes (Treasury of Scriptural Knowledge expressed out):[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mount Zion = God's holy place, His eternal place of rest, is where Jesus sets as the great King of His city. It is Mount Zion where He has laid a foundation, a very costly chosen Cornerstone, and through faith in this Cornerstone, many peoples shall be delivered and in no way be disgraced. It is those who were ransomed, for by the LORD shall they be returned, who shall come towards Mount Zion with gladness and an everlasting leap for joy. And unto them shall it be said, "You are my People." This great King,who shall deliver, comes from Zion, and He shall turn impiety from Jacob (the remnant whom the LORD shall call), and whosoever shall call upon Him shall be delivered, seeing that in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance (and He shall be called the city of the LORD, the Zion of the Holy One of Israel). [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]God's city = It is the city of David which is to come down out of Heaven from God and is to be the joy of the whole Earth. God has adorned her as a bride for her Husband. What glorious things are spoken of her, the LORD even loving her gates more than all the dwellings of Jacob.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Verbs:[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]had come (2 peRfect Active Indicative) = It is a completed action which is to never occur again. So, never look back to the malipulated moutain of dread, but towards the mount which your King of life sets. Why would anyone choose to approach the mount which caused Moses to fear and tremble, even inflicting a dread of death through Law, when they, through faith in Jesus, can approach Mount Zion. They who say, “do this and don't do that (remnants of Law)“ must constantly fear death. But they who have approaced Mount Zion, know that their King is most gracious and a Giver of life who has liberated those who had once set under the shadow of death.[/FONT]

cfultz3 · May 29, 2012

Heb 12:23 towards a festival (to celebrate the solemnity of the race) and assemble (as by a calling out) of first-begottens having had been registered(enrolled, recorded) in the heavens, and towards God, Judge of all (people), and towards spirits of righteous ones having had been perfected (completed),

KJV Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Verbs:

having had been registered (peRfect Passive Participle) = WHOA!!! Does it not make you want to sing praise to the LORD, knowing that your name has been registered in the Book of Life. This one time event which is to never occur again, promises us that as long as we stay upon the faith's track, we have a reserved mansion waiting for us. The only way your reservation can be cancelled is through that root of bitterness, through which root, one could apostate. Let it not be said of you that you ran pass a tripped fellow upon that track, but all the more, let it be said that you dragged them with the same hope which beseech you to run.

spirits of righteous ones having had been perfected (peRfect Passive Participle) =If we are perfected while here on earth, then what need would there have been to have spoken in the perfect participle concerning those who are enrolled in the heavens. Keeping this in mind, "He who sanctifies (present indicative) and those who are being sanctified (present participle)", is a clear indication that we are being prepared to be like those who are already in Heaven, having once-and-for-all times (perfect participle) been completed. If I have said it a million times, I will yet say it another gazillion times, while we are here on Earth in our physical bodies, we are being lead to perfection by the Spirit through chastisement. We are not to had reached perfection until we are in Heaven or transformed at our Lord's return. So, count it all blessedness that you are undergoing chastisement, see that God has accepted you as a child. But you if you are not undergoing correction by the Spirit, then fear for you soul, seeing that you are fatherless.

Treasury of Scriptural Knowledge:

festival:Psa_89:7, Psa_111:1; Act_20:28; Eph_1:22, Eph_5:24-27; Col_1:24; 1Ti_3:5
first-borns:Exo_4:22, Exo_13:2; Deu_21:17; Psa_89:27; Jer_31:9; Jam_1:18; Rev_14:4
registered:Exo_32:32; Psa_69:28; Luk_10:20; Phi_4:3; Rev_13:8, Rev_20:15
written: or, enrolled
God:Heb_6:10-12, Heb_9:27; Gen_18:25; Psa_50:5-6, Psa_94:2, Psa_96:13, Psa_98:9; Mat_25:31-34; Joh_5:27; 2Th_1:5-7; 1Pe_2:23
the spirits:Heb_11:4, Heb_11:40; Ecc_12:7; 1Co_13:12, 1Co_15:49, 1Co_15:54; 2Co_5:8; Phi_1:21-23; Phi_3:12-21; Col_1:12; Rev_7:14-17

GreenNnice · May 30, 2012

cfultz3 said:

　
Heb 12:20 seeing that they were not(abs. neg.) being able to bear the thing being commanded. And if so much as a beast would have touched (under the notion of manipulating (eat grass, paw prints, etc...)) the mountain, it shall have been stoned or thrusted through with a dart.

KJV Heb 12:20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:

12:20 - this is a mountain of death, obey God, don't touch it or you will die.

Heb 12:21 And the spectacle was so frightful that Moses said, "I am terrified and trembling".

KJV Heb 12:21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake

Notes of verse 20-21:
They received the Law through fear of death, we receive grace through the Kingship of the Son (next verse).

Moses was in fear, He knew when something was of all badness.

GreenNnice · May 30, 2012

cfultz3 said:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Heb 12:22 But rather, you* had come towards Mount Zion, even the living God's city, heavenly Jerusalem, and towards myriads of angels,[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Notes (Treasury of Scriptural Knowledge expressed out):[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mount Zion = God's holy place, His eternal place of rest, is where Jesus sets as the great King of His city. It is Mount Zion where He has laid a foundation, a very costly chosen Cornerstone, and through faith in this Cornerstone, many peoples shall be delivered and in no way be disgraced. It is those who were ransomed, for by the LORD shall they be returned, who shall come towards Mount Zion with gladness and an everlasting leap for joy. And unto them shall it be said, "You are my People." This great King,who shall deliver, comes from Zion, and He shall turn impiety from Jacob (the remnant whom the LORD shall call), and whosoever shall call upon Him shall be delivered, seeing that in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance (and He shall be called the city of the LORD, the Zion of the Holy One of Israel). [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]God's city = It is the city of David which is to come down out of Heaven from God and is to be the joy of the whole Earth. God has adorned her add a bride for her Husband. What glorious things are spoken of her, the LORD even loving her gates more than all the dwellings of Jacob.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Verbs:[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]had come (2 peRfect Active Indicative) = It is a completed action which is to never occur again. So, never look back to the malipulated moutain of dread, but towards the mount which your King of life sets. Why would anyone choose to approach the mount which caused Moses to fear and tremble, even inflicting a dread of death through Law, when they, through faith in Jesus, can approach Mount Zion. They who say, “do this and don't do that (remnants of Law)“ must constantly fear death. But they who have approaced Mount Zion, know that their King is most gracious and a Giver of life who has liberated those who had once set under the shadow of death.[/FONT]

There is,no question that cee wrote massively fantastic from Him, Spirit-led ! Superb stuff, brother.

All I did was boldface and repeat it.

GreenNnice · May 30, 2012

cfultz3 said:

Heb 12:23 towards a festival (to celebrate the solemnity of the race) and assemble (as by a calling out) of first-begottens having had been registered(enrolled, recorded) in the heavens, and towards God, Judge of all (people), and towards spirits of righteous ones having had been perfected (completed),

KJV Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Verbs:

having had been registered (peRfect Passive Participle) = WHOA!!! Does it not make you want to sing praise to the LORD, knowing that your name has been registered in the Book of Life. This one time event which is to never occur again, promises us that as long as we stay upon the faith's track, we have a reserved mansion waiting for us. The only way your reservation can be cancelled is through that root of bitterness, through which root, one could apostate. Let it not be said of you that you ran pass a tripped fellow upon that track, but all the more, let it be said that you dragged them with the same hope which beseech you to run.

spirits of righteous ones having had been perfected (peRfect Passive Participle) =If we are perfected while here on earth, then what need would there have been to have spoken in the perfect participle concerning those who are enrolled in the heavens. Keeping this in mind, "He who sanctifies (present indicative) and those who are being sanctified (present participle)", is a clear indication that we are being prepared to be like those who are already in Heaven, having once-and-for-all times (perfect participle) been completed. If I have said it a million times, I will yet say it another gazillion times, while we are here on Earth in our physical bodies, we are being lead to perfection by the Spirit through chastisement. We are not to had reached perfection until we are in Heaven or transformed at our Lord's return. So, count it all blessedness that you are undergoing chastisement, see that God has accepted you as a child. But you if you are not undergoing correction by the Spirit, then fear for you soul, seeing that you are fatherless.

Treasury of Scriptural Knowledge:

festival:Psa_89:7, Psa_111:1; Act_20:28; Eph_1:22, Eph_5:24-27; Col_1:24; 1Ti_3:5
first-borns:Exo_4:22, Exo_13:2; Deu_21:17; Psa_89:27; Jer_31:9; Jam_1:18; Rev_14:4
registered:Exo_32:32; Psa_69:28; Luk_10:20; Phi_4:3; Rev_13:8, Rev_20:15
written: or, enrolled
God:Heb_6:10-12, Heb_9:27; Gen_18:25; Psa_50:5-6, Psa_94:2, Psa_96:13, Psa_98:9; Mat_25:31-34; Joh_5:27; 2Th_1:5-7; 1Pe_2:23
the spirits:Heb_11:4, Heb_11:40; Ecc_12:7; 1Co_13:12, 1Co_15:49, 1Co_15:54; 2Co_5:8; Phi_1:21-23; Phi_3:12-21; Col_1:12; Rev_7:14-17

The only thing I.will add is nothing from cee's post. Christ peep's, you are reading passionate unworldly (Godly) PERFECTION

cfultz3 · May 30, 2012

Heb 12:24καιG2532 CONJ - (and) διαθηκηςG1242 N-GSF - (of a covenant) νεαςG3501 A-GSF - (new) μεσιτηG3316 N-DSM - (Mediator) ιησουG2424 N-DSM - (towards Jesus) καιG2532 CONJ - (and) αιματιG129 N-DSN - (towards a blood) ραντισμουG4473 N-GSM - (of sprinkling) κρειττοναG2909 A-APN - (better things) λαλουντιG2980 V-PAP-DSM - (speaking) παραG3844 PREP - (as oppose to) | τονG3588 T-ASM - (the) | τοG3588 T-ASN - (the blood of sprinkling) | αβελG6 N-PRI - (Abel's)]

Click to expand...

Heb 12:24 and towards Jesus, Mediator of a new covenant, towards a blood of sprinkling speaking better things as oppose to Abel's blood of sprinkling.

Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Notes:

Hebrew 9-10 speaks more volume to this then I can even start to imagine. One's sacrifice covered his own sin, the Other's covered the world. One had to continue to sacrifice in order to remain holy, the Other perpetually covered and forever made holy those who are cleansed by His blood of sacrifice. One kept God apart from us in the Holy of Holies, the Other ripped the veil which separated us from God and make Him our approachable Father. So much is the contrast, how better is the blood shed once and for all times than the blood which only served to remind us of sin and that it was up to us to present ourselves holy before Him by sacrifice. You see, when we try to present ourselves to God as holy through our own deeds, it is only temporary and has been replaced by the everlasting cleansing obtained through faith in the unblemished Lamb. And it is through this faith that God sees us as holy (saints), as holy as His Holy Lamb which stands before Him as our Mediator and not some blood from a bull or a he-goat.

Hebrews 12: the Fath of the Saints!

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