Hebrews 6:4-6 - not at it seems...

[UnderGrace]

Let me talk about washing up after a meal. Each plate, knife, fork, spoon, glass, needs to be cleaned.
Each time it is washed it is cleansed. The one washing cleanses away all dirt.

But it does not purify the heart so it cannot defile the person again. It does not remove the possibility
of sin, or the habits that lead to sinful behaviour.

PRAISE God, because He says.....

Hebrews 10:10

By this will of God, we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once and for all.

Your word against His Word, His Word wins!

You want to make scripture fit your philosophy, it will not work.

My concern though is that your continually revert back to your philosophy, even as so many sound teachers here have been patiently teaching you the truth of God’s word and His complete and final sacrifice….. one I might add that creates a mystical/spiritual union.

So please just say this is my philosophy because at least then I can dust off my old philosophy books and I can compare it to other philosophies….. you know outside the the realm of truth.

 

[FlSnookman7]

Let me talk about washing up after a meal. Each plate, knife, fork, spoon, glass, needs to be cleaned.
Each time it is washed it is cleansed. The one washing cleanses away all dirt.

But it does not purify the heart so it cannot defile the person again. It does not remove the possibility
of sin, or the habits that lead to sinful behaviour.

The temple and sacrifices are because people sin knowingly and unknowingly, it is an on-going issue
even with a dedicated spirit and obedience. But each time when conviction comes, repentance,
confession and going to God things are put right. This is how relationships work, with moods,
reactions, changes of direction, ups and downs. And God provides a way of cleansing, staying pure,
walking in righteousness. And the more you walk, the more likely you will not stumble or have
problems, the better you cope and the more consistent it all becomes.

And yes if people give up, abandon the walk, disavow Christ, there is a breaking of the relationship.
But the prodigal son may return, the foundation maybe returned to and not left alone.

I have a christian brother who did these very things. It took a year and he returned to walking with
God. The language is a warning, things need to be walked in to be real, this is not a mystic bought
in never lost deal. This is real friendship and understanding the eternal principles of creation and
the creator.

Once you know them, you have a choice, walk in them or go back to blindness and delusion.

Salvation is not a meal and continual sacrifices are no longer needed. Jesus took care of it all on the cross.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The temple sacrifices are done, Because Jesus satisfied Gods wrath, where they, (with the law) could never take away sin.

Heb 10:[SUP]11 [/SUP]And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. [SUP]12 [/SUP]But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, [SUP]13 [/SUP]from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified. [SUP]15 [/SUP]But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before,

[SUP]16 [/SUP]“This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,”[SUP][c][/SUP] [SUP]17 [/SUP]then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”[SUP][d][/SUP] [SUP]18 [/SUP]Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.

This idea that one can be saved, Have the sacrifice of Christ applied to your life. And then lost salvation because of sin, When Christ makes it clear he has already perfected you BEFORE he started to sanctify you (an ongoing process) and he has taken your sin and moved it as far as the east is from the west, and he will remember it no more. is an idea of lack of true faith in Christ. and trust in self. It waters down the law. It makes a mockery of the cross. And it puts Christ to open shame.

It sounds good, because all religion does, And that is what makes it so dangerous.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Salvation is not a meal and continual sacrifices are no longer needed. Jesus took care of it all on the cross.

Salvation is very much a meal.

Then Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life in yourselves! The one who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. The one who eats my flesh and drinks my blood resides in me and I in him. Just as the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, [so] also the one who eats me—that one will live because of me. John 6:53-57​

And it's not something that you eat once and are then good to go. It has to be eaten every day. Yesterday's manna won't work today.

 

[Grace777x70]

It is good to eat of the truth of the Lord every day living so that we can draw our life from Him alone while we are on this earth but once we have been made clean by the blood of Jesus we are sealed for the day of redemption for salvation going to heaven.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Salvation is very much a meal.

Then Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life in yourselves! The one who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. The one who eats my flesh and drinks my blood resides in me and I in him. Just as the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, [so] also the one who eats me—that one will live because of me. John 6:53-57​

And it's not something that you eat once and are then good to go. It has to be eaten every day. Yesterday's manna won't work today.

Oh wow. Did you even read what you posted? How can you read it and say this???

[SUP]27 [/SUP]Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”

[SUP]35 [/SUP]And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.

[SUP]39 [/SUP]This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. [SUP]40 [/SUP]And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

[SUP]47 [/SUP]Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life. [SUP]48 [/SUP]I am the bread of life. [SUP]49 [/SUP]Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. [SUP]50 [/SUP]This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. [SUP]51 [/SUP]I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”

[SUP]54 [/SUP]Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

[SUP]58 [/SUP]This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”

The language is not speaking of taking a meal day after day, it is talking about eating daily food, vs eating the food which you can eat once and live forever, never die, Have eternal life, never hunger or thirst again, endures forever. And whoever eats it, will be risen on the last day.

Sorry but to take this passage as saying Jesus is telling them to eat continually is to take everything jesus said in the passage, and make it a false truth. It is like calling Jesus a liar.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

It is good to eat of the truth of the Lord every day living so that we can draw our life from Him alone while we are on this earth but once we have been made clean by the blood of Jesus we are sealed for the day of redemption for salvation going to heaven.

So are you saying that you can"t defile your vessel through acts of sin? Something that is defiled means that it has become unclean.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So are you saying that you can"t defile your vessel through acts of sin? Something that is defiled means that it has become unclean.

Jesus said whoever eats this bread will live forever.

what part of live forever is so confusing?


[SUP]10 [/SUP]Jesus said to him, “He who is bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you.” [SUP]11 [/SUP]For He knew who would betray Him; therefore He said, “You are not all clean.”

God knows who is clean and who is not clean. And Jesus was not saying the disciples were sinless.. The one that was not clean was not clean because he lacked faith. He was not saved.. God knows who has faith and who does not. The one who has faith in him, as john said over and over HAS ETERNAL LIFE. HAS PASSED FROM DEATH TO LIFE, WILL NEVER DIE.. WILL LIVE FOREVER.

There is no ifs about it.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The language is not speaking of taking a meal day after day, it is talking about eating daily food, vs eating the food which you can eat once and live forever, never die, Have eternal life, never hunger or thirst again, endures forever. And whoever eats it, will be risen on the last day.[/B]

Sorry but to take this passage as saying Jesus is telling them to eat continually is to take everything jesus said in the passage, and make it a false truth. It is like calling Jesus a liar. [/B]

Jesus was talking about the hidden manna. Only those with eyes to see can see it.

The one who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers, I will give to him of the hidden manna, and I will give to him a white stone, and on the stone a new name written, that no one knows except the one who receives [it].’ Revelation 2:17​

The belief that eating something once turns someone into an eternal spiritual being that will live forever is little more than gnosticism.

 

[Grace777x70]

Our inner man in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness cannot be defiled as this is where the Holy Spirit has sealed us unto the day of redemption. Sin is done by walking after the flesh and we are responsible with what we do with our bodies while on this earth. This does not separate us from Christ as some religious teachings indicate.

John 13:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.

is washed = perfect passive.

Perfect tense =The perfect tense in Greek is used to describe a completed past action which produced results which are still in effect all the way up to the present. This is continuously happening in the present.

Passive means something is being done to you - you are not doing it.



1 Corinthians 6:11 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus was talking about the hidden manna. Only those with eyes to see can see it.

The one who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers, I will give to him of the hidden manna, and I will give to him a white stone, and on the stone a new name written, that no one knows except the one who receives [it].’ Revelation 2:17​

The belief that eating something once turns someone into an eternal spiritual being that will live forever is little more than gnosticism.

Call it gnosticism all you want (It is nothing of the sort)

Jesus said in John 6, what he said. Nothing you say can change that.

Live forever, means that, Live forever. That is not gnostic, that is the words of our savior

Never huger or never thirst once you at and drink is what it means, Thats is not gnostic, those are Jesus words.

Whoever eats HAS eternal life, And will be risen on the last day, That is not gnostic, Those are Jesus words.

Whoever eats will never die, and will live forever, That is not gnostic, those are Jesus words

DO not look for food which perishes (food you have to eat every day) but for food with endures forever (food you only need to eat once, and it sustained life forever) That is not Gnostic, those are jesus words.

It is Jesus, not gnostic, who preach those things.. Deny Jesus words, You deny him.

Even Jesus said, There are some who do not believe, that is why they will not eat..

You have to eat (his words) if you want eternal life... Working for it will get you no where

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Our inner man in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness cannot be defiled as this is where the Holy Spirit has sealed us unto the day of redemption.

But your body can be defiled. Or are you like the gnostics who said that didn't matter?

Also your spirit and soul can be defiled. Otherwise, Paul would not have said.

Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your spirit and soul and body be kept complete, blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Thessalonians 5:23​

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But your body can be defiled. Or are you like the gnostics who said that didn't matter?

Also your spirit and soul can be defiled. Otherwise, Paul would not have said.

Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your spirit and soul and body be kept complete, blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Thessalonians 5:23​

It is not gnostic, It is Gods word.

Romans 8:10
And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

The issue is not sin, The issue is "Is Christ in you, or is he not"

If he is not in you ,the body is still dead because of sin, But the spirit remains dead also It needs to be "born, again" Or "Regenerated"

 

[Grace777x70]

If Jesus can be defiled when one sins because He is one with us in our spirit - then we can be defiled too. This is complete nonsense.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 is simply stating that everything will be preserved blameless " at the coming of our Lord" - that is the operative reality - when Jesus comes - He will have us preserved in Him.

This "gnostic" foolishness is a result of a natural mind that doesn't see the new birth in Christ and spiritual truths are a mystery.

When you have a mindset that believes being born again doesn't happened to believers until we get new bodies - then everything that is spiritual is going to be "gnostic" to them.

Jesus said "unless you are born again you can't see the kingdom of God". This is why this mindset needs to "do righteous deeds" in order to qualify for heaven. It's an anti-Christ belief.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Proverbs 26:11
As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.

2 Peter 2:22
But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Revelation 3:4
Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

Revelation 16:15
Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

 

[Grace777x70]

Never let an obscure scripture rob you of the abundance of the very clear scriptures on any subject.


Incomplete Deeds: The Zombie Church of Sardis (Rev 3:1-6)

What a wonderful thing for a church to get a letter from Jesus! The seven churches of Revelations 1-3 were a real mixed bag with some getting rebukes and others encouragement, but all were blessed. Even the churches that were mucking around with the things of God were blessed because they were being warned. They were being given a chance to repent. These letters say as much about the mercy and goodness of God as they do the badness of certain people.

When we read these letters it is essential that we ask two questions: What is Jesus saying in light of the finished work of the cross? And who is he speaking to? If we fail to rightly divide the word we can end up getting the wrong message. For instance, consider what Jesus says to the church at Sardis:

“I have not found your deeds complete” (Rev 3:2).

The issue of deeds comes up in several of these letters. At different times Jesus says, “I know your deeds,” or “your deeds are incomplete,” or “I will repay you according to your deeds.”

So what are these deeds that Jesus is talking about?

If we were living under the old covenant, we would no doubt define these deeds in terms of the 10 commandments plus the other 600 or so sundry Levitical laws. Today some might say they are the deeds that “prove repentance” or they are works of obedience, as in, “we should do what the Bible says.” Okay, but do we obey everything in the Bible including the law? If not, how do we know when our deeds are complete? At what point is repentance proved?

No, Jesus did not go to the cross so that we could get the chance to work for our salvation. Some people think Christianity is about rules and regulations, but that’s not grace. No, Jesus “worked” so that we would not have to. He died, so that we might enter his rest unencumbered by the heavy yoke of religion.

Someone once asked Jesus, what must we do to do the works of God? Jesus replied,
“The work of God is this: to believe in the one he sent” (Jn 6:29).

What is our divine occupation? It is believing in the finished work of Jesus and “working” that out in our lives to the point where the supernatural becomes natural and our broken world is restored. This was no one off claim either. From the very beginning of his ministry Jesus consistently preached, “repent and believe the good news” (Mk 1:15).

What does Jesus want you to do? He wants you to repent and believe the good news. And he wants you to tell other people the good news so they have a chance to repent and believe too.

If you think that is too simple, that we also obey Jesus’ commandments, consider what he commanded us to do:
“And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ… ” (1 Jn 3:23)

Here in the church at Sardis was a group of people who heard the good news but had not repented and did not believe. They were busy doing churchy stuff but it was all dead works. They had a reputation of being alive but Jesus wasn’t fooled. “You are dead. Wake up!” I call them the church of the living-dead, but really they were just dead.

Are you surprised to learn that there are unbelievers in the church? You shouldn’t be. Going to church doesn’t make you a Christian. You can preach, prophesy, cast out demons and perform signs and wonders without ever knowing Christ (Mt 7:23). It’s not going to church or leading a church that counts, it’s whether you have repented and put your faith in Jesus.

In many of the letters to the New Testament churches there are sections either addressed to unbelievers or warning the saints about the influence of unbelievers among them. The letter to the church at Sardis is no exception. How do we know for sure there were some unbelievers in the church at Sardis? Because Jesus said they were dead and in danger of judgment.

What message did Jesus have for the sinners in Sardis?

To the unbelievers at Sardis Jesus said, “remember what you have heard; hold fast and repent” (Rev 3:3, KJV). What had they heard but the gospel? What work did he want them to do? He wanted them to grasp the good news, hold fast to it, and repent.

Jesus compares repenting to waking up. Twice he tells them to “wake up!” Paul used similar language when he told the Romans to put aside their “deeds of darkness” and wake up from their slumber (Rms 13:11-12). To repent is to wake up, to come to one’s senses and return to the Father (1 Cor 15:34, Lk 15:17).

Jesus warned the Sardisians, “if you don’t wake up, I will come like a thief.” This is a warning of impending judgment. The zombie sinners at Sardis had heard and rejected the good news. They were playing church and rejecting the grace of God. In his mercy, Jesus was giving them another chance to say “yes” to him before it was too late.

This is the same message Jesus has for religious people everywhere. Stop playing church. Wake up and obey what you heard before it’s too late. Repent and believe the good news.

But this church wasn’t a completely lost cause for among the sinners were a “few” saints. We know this because Jesus clearly distinguishes a second group within the church who had not “soiled their clothes” and who were considered “worthy.” How do we soil our clothes? By trying to make ourselves righteous (Is 64:6). What makes a person worthy in God’s eyes? Being clothed with Christ and his righteousness (Is 61:10).

What message did Jesus have for the saints in Sardis?

“They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.” (Rev 3:4-5)

Those who preach a works-based gospel – which is no gospel at all – have used this verse to burden Christians with unholy demands for religious works. They say things like, “you’ve got to perform for Jesus lest he find your deeds incomplete.” Or they say, “if you don’t overcome to the end, Jesus will blot out your name from the book of life.” Honestly, it’s as if the cross made no difference at all!

Why would Jesus – who nailed the law to the cross and died so that we might live free from its demands – suddenly turn around and start laying law on his church?

In this passage Jesus gives Christians the most wonderful assurance of their salvation. He says, “I will never blot out their names from the book of life.” To this the confused preacher replies, “Watch out Jesus might be tricking us, he might yet do what he just said he would never do.” It’s ludicrous!

Jesus not only died for us but he lives for us that we might be holy and blameless. The riches of his love for us are not bound up in threats and conditions. He “performed” so that we don’t have to. Just as Jesus “worked” on our behalf, so he has overcome on our behalf:

“In the world you have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.” (Jn 16:33)

If you are in Christ, you have already overcome the world because he has overcome the world (1 Jn 4:4). Trials and tribulations may entangle and overcome sinners (2 Pet 2:20), but they cannot overcome you. You may not feel like an overcomer.

The circumstances of your life may be trying to tell you that you are not an overcomer. But they are lying. They are speaking from a worldly point of view. We are from God and he says we are more than conquerors through Christ who loved us (Rms 8:37). The world may rise up against you, but Almighty God is for you! The entire world may try and condemn you but God himself justifies you (Rms 8:33).

The next time circumstances or people try to lay guilt on you saying you must do this and that to overcome, respond with this: “I believe that Jesus is God’s Son. In him I have already overcome the world!” (1 Jn 5:5).

The good news is not that you have to work hard to rescue yourself. The good news is that God himself has rescued you and qualified you and brought you into the kingdom of the Son he loves (Col 1:12). God looks at you clothed with Christ and says, “you are worthy and your deeds are perfectly complete!”

https://escapetoreality.org/2010/04/11/incomplete-deeds-the-zombie-church-of-sardis-rev-31-6/

 

[Th0mas]

But your body can be defiled. Or are you like the gnostics who said that didn't matter?

Also your spirit and soul can be defiled. Otherwise, Paul would not have said.

Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your spirit and soul and body be kept complete, blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Thessalonians 5:23​

2 Corinthians 7:1

Therefore, since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Proverbs 26:11
As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.

A dog was not made a new creature, He was always a dog. Thats why he returned to his TRUE NATURE.

2 Peter 2:22
But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Again, A dog, Who was always a dog. May have ACTED like he was a new creation, But he was a dog who was taught some neat tricks (its amazing when you see a dog have human characteristics) But a dog is still a dog. And no matter how much you try to CHANGE them, they will still be a dog who returns to his true nature.

Revelation 3:4
Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

Revelation 16:15
Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

whos garments are we going to ear? Our own. made of our hard work. Or Gods, Made of his loving sacrifice.

If your going to try to wear a garment you made of your hard work. When he returns. You will be left standing. and his shame will be naked for all to see.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Proverbs 26:11
As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.

2 Peter 2:22
But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Revelation 3:4
Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

Revelation 16:15
Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

Likewise also these [filthy] dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities. ... These are spots in your love feasts, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds [they are] without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; Jude 1:8, 12

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Likewise also these [filthy] dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities. ... These are spots in your love feasts, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds [they are] without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; Jude 1:8, 12

[SUP]4 [/SUP]For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into liscentiousness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Why do people want to use passages spoken against people who were NEVER SAVED, to prove one can lose salvation?

It is the old jewish principle. If it can cause one to deny christ, we must deny it altogether

So grace is trampled not only bu the licentious. but by the legalist. Who is afraid he might go the other way.