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[Ariel82]

Romans 3: 2 [FONT=&quot]Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.[/FONT]

What do people understand as the advantages of the Jews?

Romans 3:2 Greek Text Analysis

Greek Concordance: λόγια (logia) -- 3 Occurrences

λόγια (logia) — 3 Occurrences
Acts 7:38 N-ANP
GRK: ὃς ἐδέξατο λόγια ζῶντα δοῦναι
NAS: living oracles to pass
KJV: the lively oracles to give
INT: who received oracles living to give

Romans 3:2 N-ANP
GRK: ἐπιστεύθησαν τὰ λόγια τοῦ θεοῦ
NAS: that they were entrusted with the oracles of God.
KJV: unto them were committed the oracles of God.
INT: they were entrusted with the oracles of God

1 Peter 4:11 N-ANP
GRK: λαλεῖ ὡς λόγια θεοῦ εἴ
NAS: who is speaking the utterances of God;
KJV: [let him speak] as the oracles of God;
INT: speaks as oracles of God if

 

[Ariel82]

Ah.

So you think specifically the promise of Jesus?

Yes sir. What do you believe?

 

[Locutus]

λόγιον

A. oracle, esp. one preserved from antiquity, Hdt. 4.178,203, 8.60.γ́, Plu.Thes.26, Lys.22: more freq. in pl., oracles, Hdt.1.64, 8.62, 141, E.Heracl.405, Ar.Eq.120, al., Plu.Fab.4, Marc.3: distd. fr. χρησμοί, Th.2.8 (the former being prose, the latter verse, acc. to Sch., but this distn. does not hold), cf. Plu.Pel.20, Nic.13, 2.412c.

2. τὰ λ. Κυρίου the sayings of the Lord, LXX Ps.11(12).6, cf.Act.Ap.7.38, Ep.Rom.3.2, 1 Ep.Pet.4.11.

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II. τὸ λ. τῶν κρίσεων the oracular breastplate worn by the Jewish High-Priest, LXX Ex.28.26(30), cf. Ph.2.154; τὰ λόγια Aristeas 158.




Greek Word Study Tool​

 

[trofimus]

[FONT=&]λόγιον

A. oracle, esp. one preserved from antiquity, Hdt. 4.178,203, 8.60.[FONT=&]γ́[/FONT], Plu.Thes.26, Lys.22: more freq. in pl., oracles, Hdt.1.64, 8.62, 141, E.Heracl.405, Ar.Eq.120, al., Plu.Fab.4, Marc.3: distd. fr. [FONT=&]χρησμοί[/FONT], Th.2.8 (the former being prose, the latter verse, acc. to Sch., but this distn. does not hold), cf. Plu.Pel.20, Nic.13, 2.412c.[/FONT]

2. [FONT=&]τὰ λ. Κυρίου​

the sayings of the Lord, LXX Ps.11(12).6, cf.Act.Ap.7.38, Ep.Rom.3.2, 1 Ep.Pet.4.11.

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[/FONT]

II. [FONT=&]τὸ λ. τῶν κρίσεων​

the oracular breastplate worn by the Jewish High-Priest, LXX Ex.28.26(30), cf. Ph.2.154; [FONT=&]τὰ λόγια[/FONT] Aristeas 158.




Greek Word Study Tool​

[/FONT]

Because it is used as "ta logia tu Theu", i.e. in the same form as "ta logia tu Kyriu" (the sayings of the Lord), I see no reason not to translate it as "the sayings of God" and use "oracles" instead...?

Oracles seems to me (correct me if I am wrong, English is not my native language) to have something with the prophecy, prophecy about future.
So it has a specific meaning.
"Sayings" on the other hand, can contain prophecies but also anything else. It is more general. Why to take away this general meaning and translate it so specialized as "prophecies" or "oracles"?

 

[J7]

Yes sir. What do you believe?

Every translation takes it the same way - basically:

Much in every way - principally because they (the Jews) were entrusted with the words of God

According to Paul's logic and train of thought, I think he means:

"Very greatly; because the (true) Jews were those who were the first to trust in the divine words (of John The Baptist and Jesus - and therefore are the first to receive glory, honour and peace)".

 

[Ariel82]

Jesus has been called the WORD...

 

[Ariel82]

Jesus has been called the WORD...

John 1:1 ►
New International Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


John 10:35 N-NMS
GRK: οὓς ὁ λόγος τοῦ θεοῦ
NAS: to whom the word of God
KJV: unto whom the word of God came,
INT: whom the word of God

"Logos"

 

[Ariel82]

τὰ λ. Κυρίου the sayings of the Lord, LXX Ps.11(12).6, cf.Act.Ap.7.38, Ep.Rom.3.2, 1 Ep.Pet.4.11.

I thought the Greek word was Logos in Romans 3 v 2.

In English two different Greek words are translated "Oracle"

 

[J7]

It is 'logion theos'

 

[Ariel82]

3051 [e]
logiōn
λογίων
oracles
N-GNP

Hebrews 5:12 Interlinear: for even owing to be teachers, because of the time, again ye have need that one teach you what are the elements of the beginning of the oracles of God, and ye have become having need of milk, and not of strong food,

 

[J7]

What does Oracles mean?

Isn't it a prophetic utterance?

 

[Ariel82]

λόγια

I don't know Greek...same word different tense?

 

[trofimus]

What does Oracles mean?

Isn't it a prophetic utterance?

For us, who are not native English speakers, the word "oracles" means something prophetic, like pagans had many prophecies about future by fortune-tellers, pythons.

For English speakers it seems to make a sense, though. I do not know why. They even put it into most Bible translations instead of "words/sayings". No idea why.

 

[J7]

It makes no sense Trofimus.

It is not a word one ever hears; when it does turn up I think it means a person who is a bit of a guru.

"Better consult the oracle if you want to know how that works'

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Romans 3: 2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

What do people understand as the advantages of the Jews?

Deuteronomy 4:

7 For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as the LORD our God is in all things that we call upon him for?

8 And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?



Psalm 147:

19 He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel.

20 He hath not dealt so with any nation: and as for his judgments, they have not known them

 

[J7]

'Logion theos' just means godly words doesn't it?

 

[trofimus]

λόγια

I don't know Greek...same word different tense?

Different words, same root.

ho Logos - word, saying, hypostatis of God
to logion - word, saying (specifically "said word", probably?)

I am not sure, but it is possible that "to logion/ta logia" was used in a relation to pagan prophets... so thats why the Bible translators use "oracles" in Romans?

 

[trofimus]

It makes no sense Trofimus.

It is not a word one ever hears; when it does turn up I think it means a person who is a bit of a guru.

"Better consult the oracle if you want to know how that works'

Yeah, it has the same connotations to me... probably a cultural thing? Have we read too much of Greek myths in school in Europe?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

It makes no sense Trofimus.

It is not a word one ever hears; when it does turn up I think it means a person who is a bit of a guru.

"Better consult the oracle if you want to know how that works'

https://www.gotquestions.org/oracles-of-God.html

 

[J7]

Deuteronomy 4:

7 For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as the LORD our God is in all things that we call upon him for?

8 And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?



Psalm 147:

19 He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel.

20 He hath not dealt so with any nation: and as for his judgments, they have not known them

Paul says the Jews are very advantaged.

Israel ceased to be a great nation when it came under Babylonian judgement and rule. (Deut 4)

The problem with God's judgements is that they are very severe on the Jews, so it makes no sense to talk about this as a great advantage. (Psalm 147)