Holiness n the chat room
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I'm fine with God's truth. It's your judgmental attitude that disgusts me.
Seems kind of funny that you should be saying this, since you continuously conduct yourself without any semblance of love, judge others by going after specks in their eyes while you ignore the plank in your own, and like to throw verbal stones at those with whom you disagree.
I guarantee you the Scriptures say a heck of a lot more about love and mercy than the 'unholy' actions that prompted you to start this thread.
Seems kind of funny that you should be saying this, since you continuously conduct yourself without any semblance of love, judge others by going after specks in their eyes while you ignore the plank in your own, and like to throw verbal stones at those with whom you disagree.
I guarantee you the Scriptures say a heck of a lot more about love and mercy than the 'unholy' actions that prompted you to start this thread.
There is nothing holy nor is there any grace in thinking or propagating a perverted gospel that teaches believers, who have the Holy Spirit dwelling in them, that they can lose the righteousness of God's salvation that was imputed to them by grace and through faith when they believed upon Christ. Anyone that advocates a perverted gospel and blasphemes God's grace is not sent by God to edify or build up believers in any way, let alone to represent the holiness of God. When a believer by grace walks in the Holy Spirit and is led by the Holy Spirit and bears the fruit of the Holy Spirit, that is the holiness of God in action within the believer. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of grace (Heb 10:29) and when you attack the grace of God as an unholy thing you are blaspheming God's Spirit of grace. There is absolutely nothing holy about a person who does that as a practice and has never repented of that evil.
Satan is going about seeking those that he can sift and devour by attacking the grace of God that is responsible for everything that the believer has inherited by faith through Jesus Christ. Satan knows that he can not stop the believer, who is saved by grace through faith, from inheriting the kingdom of God and eternal life with Christ. However, he does have devices and strategies (2Cor 2:11) to pervert their thinking about grace and stop them from given grace through the Holy Spirit of grace to others that they might be saved. If the believer gives place to the devil and those strategies, Satan takes advantage of them and they become a mouthpiece to hinder and remove people away from the grace of God and the cross of Christ. This happened to Peter and the Holy Spirit made sure it was recorded in all three synoptic gospels (Mt 16:23, Mk 8:33, Lk 4:8) and later on Peter was rebuked by Paul for being sucked in by certain Jews against justification by grace in (Gal 2) which effected and offended many.
Satan is going about seeking those that he can sift and devour by attacking the grace of God that is responsible for everything that the believer has inherited by faith through Jesus Christ. Satan knows that he can not stop the believer, who is saved by grace through faith, from inheriting the kingdom of God and eternal life with Christ. However, he does have devices and strategies (2Cor 2:11) to pervert their thinking about grace and stop them from given grace through the Holy Spirit of grace to others that they might be saved. If the believer gives place to the devil and those strategies, Satan takes advantage of them and they become a mouthpiece to hinder and remove people away from the grace of God and the cross of Christ. This happened to Peter and the Holy Spirit made sure it was recorded in all three synoptic gospels (Mt 16:23, Mk 8:33, Lk 4:8) and later on Peter was rebuked by Paul for being sucked in by certain Jews against justification by grace in (Gal 2) which effected and offended many.
Well in reading most of the replies I see some agree and some disagree. I don't think we can ever live a totally sinless life on this earth, but as we grow in the knowledge of Jesus we can and will sin less. Not to sound rough or discouraging but to all who believe we can live sinless. Show me one person besides Jesus who did and, have you reached that level of living. If you can not show us one person's life that did then maybe we will believe it. until then proof shows we can not. Another thing is how can we be sure 100% that we have not sinned against God in a day?
The Holy Spirit is also Holy, as the name implies. Grace without holiness is not grace, but something else, lawlessness probably. It's very simple. You got God's grace through faith, and you can reject God's grace through denial or lack of faith. Apostates from the faith is a doctrine as old as the apostles themselves.
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#1 God word says that we can.
#2 I believe the Apostle Paul and pssibly many of the other Apostles reached the point of sinlessness.
#3 There very well be many people of whom none of us have heard of little grandma that love God and others that have reached this point as well.
#4 I am not yet perfected, but I trust what God says He can do, He can do it. Therefore I believe if I submit myself as I should then i will one day through the emowerment of the Holy Spirit overcome sin completely.
#5 To say because you or I have not yet acheived sinless mean God cannot perfect us is to say that because someone is not healed that God cannot heal them or if someone dies and goes to Hell God could not save them. God can Heal and He can save, He can also free us from sin, we will have what ever our faith says we can.
Romans 4
20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
I am fully persuaded that God is able to do what He said He could do. I am truly sorry if that is offensive to some of you.
#2 I believe the Apostle Paul and pssibly many of the other Apostles reached the point of sinlessness.
#3 There very well be many people of whom none of us have heard of little grandma that love God and others that have reached this point as well.
#4 I am not yet perfected, but I trust what God says He can do, He can do it. Therefore I believe if I submit myself as I should then i will one day through the emowerment of the Holy Spirit overcome sin completely.
#5 To say because you or I have not yet acheived sinless mean God cannot perfect us is to say that because someone is not healed that God cannot heal them or if someone dies and goes to Hell God could not save them. God can Heal and He can save, He can also free us from sin, we will have what ever our faith says we can.
Romans 4
20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
I am fully persuaded that God is able to do what He said He could do. I am truly sorry if that is offensive to some of you.
Originally Posted by MahogonySnail
What if watchmen is someone sent by God, shouldn't we be careful what we say? God's prophets were not often accepted gladly by His own people who they came to.
Lindqvuist if you were half the person watchmen appears to be and listen to what he is saying, then your spiritual status in your profile would not read 'unsure' but 'saved'. I always think it's strange when people on shaky foundations determines who and who isn't doing what God wants them to do.
What if watchmen is someone sent by God, shouldn't we be careful what we say? God's prophets were not often accepted gladly by His own people who they came to.
Lindqvuist if you were half the person watchmen appears to be and listen to what he is saying, then your spiritual status in your profile would not read 'unsure' but 'saved'. I always think it's strange when people on shaky foundations determines who and who isn't doing what God wants them to do.
2nd Cor 5
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
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Every believer (during the entire church age) when they were saved by grace they were perfected and made complete positionally forever (Col 2:10) being placed in Christ and hid with Christ in God (Col 3:3). We go on to perfection (Heb 6:1) but will never be perfected in our experience until we receive our new bodies at the rapture. The word perfect refers to being full grown and mature but not perfect without sin. Some people are terribly deceived when they believe in sinless perfection for the believer in this life.
When any believer starts to think in terms of sinless perfection in this life they are not only deceived but they have forgotten that they were purged from sin in the same body they have at present. That body has the old sin nature residing in the cells of every member of that body (the body of sin and death). When God saved them, the old sin nature was never eradicated or taken away from them. To have sinless perfection in this life the old sin nature would have to be removed and that could only happen if we received a new body fashioned like unto His glorious body without sin. That will happen someday for every believer but not in this life.
That is why the rapture is so beautiful because we will receive our new bodies when we (the church and body of Christ) go up in the first phase of the first resurrection before the tribulation period and the Jews and Gentiles that are saved during the tribulation will receive their new bodies after the tribulation during the second phase of the first resurrection. So we will all be going up in the first resurrection (before and after the tribulation) and receiving our new bodies and all rewards according to our works. This is the mystery of the church and God's dealing with the Jews that will all happen before the 1000 year reign of Christ on the earth and we will reign with Him with our new glorified bodies that have no sin whatsoever.
When any believer starts to think in terms of sinless perfection in this life they are not only deceived but they have forgotten that they were purged from sin in the same body they have at present. That body has the old sin nature residing in the cells of every member of that body (the body of sin and death). When God saved them, the old sin nature was never eradicated or taken away from them. To have sinless perfection in this life the old sin nature would have to be removed and that could only happen if we received a new body fashioned like unto His glorious body without sin. That will happen someday for every believer but not in this life.
That is why the rapture is so beautiful because we will receive our new bodies when we (the church and body of Christ) go up in the first phase of the first resurrection before the tribulation period and the Jews and Gentiles that are saved during the tribulation will receive their new bodies after the tribulation during the second phase of the first resurrection. So we will all be going up in the first resurrection (before and after the tribulation) and receiving our new bodies and all rewards according to our works. This is the mystery of the church and God's dealing with the Jews that will all happen before the 1000 year reign of Christ on the earth and we will reign with Him with our new glorified bodies that have no sin whatsoever.
Jer 17:9 'The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked, who can know it'.
Mk 7:21-23 'For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man'.
James 3:6-8 'And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell. For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind: But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison'.
To live in sinless perfection in this life you have to have a perfect heart and a perfect tongue because out of the abundance of heart the mouth speaks (Mt 12:34). You also can't have any vain thoughts or imaginations of the heart that might be evil.
Mt 5:28 'But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart'.
This next verse is a real killer to those that believe in this silly notion of sinless perfection in this life, whether within the context or without.
Rom 14:23 'And he that doubteth is ****ed if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin'.
Do you think that Enoch walked in sinless perfection and God took him so that he did not die (Gen 5:24, Heb 11:5)? Was he not born as the seventh from Adam after the fall? Outside of Christ he is one of two men you could point to (outside of Christ) that could have lived in sinless perfection because they never died. There is nothing else written about Enoch except that he had a testimony that pleased God or in the book of Enoch. All other men died because of the wages of sin except Elijah who was also taken up into heaven (2Kgs 2:11). At what point would these men be living in sinless perfection so that it would be impossible for them to sin again. These two men had inherited from Adam an old sin nature giving them the potential to sin at any time. Jesus was the only one and the only man that was born who did not inherit sin from Adam. He is the sinless one who died as a perfect man without knowing sin or iniquity.
Mk 7:21-23 'For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man'.
James 3:6-8 'And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell. For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind: But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison'.
To live in sinless perfection in this life you have to have a perfect heart and a perfect tongue because out of the abundance of heart the mouth speaks (Mt 12:34). You also can't have any vain thoughts or imaginations of the heart that might be evil.
Mt 5:28 'But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart'.
This next verse is a real killer to those that believe in this silly notion of sinless perfection in this life, whether within the context or without.
Rom 14:23 'And he that doubteth is ****ed if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin'.
Do you think that Enoch walked in sinless perfection and God took him so that he did not die (Gen 5:24, Heb 11:5)? Was he not born as the seventh from Adam after the fall? Outside of Christ he is one of two men you could point to (outside of Christ) that could have lived in sinless perfection because they never died. There is nothing else written about Enoch except that he had a testimony that pleased God or in the book of Enoch. All other men died because of the wages of sin except Elijah who was also taken up into heaven (2Kgs 2:11). At what point would these men be living in sinless perfection so that it would be impossible for them to sin again. These two men had inherited from Adam an old sin nature giving them the potential to sin at any time. Jesus was the only one and the only man that was born who did not inherit sin from Adam. He is the sinless one who died as a perfect man without knowing sin or iniquity.
We will soon enter the tribulation which is a trying period for the saints. The only safe place will be the highway to holiness or mount Zion that can't be touched, see Heb 12. It is better to be in Zion now than when the tribulation begins. Many will fall away and miss the rapture at the end of the tribulation and wind up going into the Day of the Lord which is the year of wrath where the 7 bowls are poured out, after the 7 years of tribulation. The last trump or 7th trump of Revelation is where we leave, before the 8th year which is pure wrath.
I found a great online fellowship at www.unleavenedbreadministries.org. It is for those who want the unleavened bread.
I found a great online fellowship at www.unleavenedbreadministries.org. It is for those who want the unleavened bread.
Densetzu,
Do you believe God can do anything? God can perfect even you and me. It certainly won't be me perfecting me, but God can. He is returning for a bride without spot or blemish. God will send what it takes to perfect us if we will cooperate. It looks like the tribulation will start soon and that will provide plenty of opportunity to mature. Many Christians will reject this process and that abomination will cause God to desolate their temple by mid trib. They will take on the mind of the beastly carnal nature in their forehead and the works of the beast in their right hand. I want to head for mount Zion, that can't be touched, the highway of holiness. if you are in holiness, mt Zion, God promises to stone any beast that comes near, so let's cooperate and allow God to kill that carnal nature in us. See Heb 12. Have faith that God can perfect us.
Do you believe God can do anything? God can perfect even you and me. It certainly won't be me perfecting me, but God can. He is returning for a bride without spot or blemish. God will send what it takes to perfect us if we will cooperate. It looks like the tribulation will start soon and that will provide plenty of opportunity to mature. Many Christians will reject this process and that abomination will cause God to desolate their temple by mid trib. They will take on the mind of the beastly carnal nature in their forehead and the works of the beast in their right hand. I want to head for mount Zion, that can't be touched, the highway of holiness. if you are in holiness, mt Zion, God promises to stone any beast that comes near, so let's cooperate and allow God to kill that carnal nature in us. See Heb 12. Have faith that God can perfect us.
Yes 1stjn32 God can do anything even perfect people like us 
. And during the Tribulation we will be tried and either be perfect or we will defect from the faith, the Bible calls this the great falling away,. However as you said Jesus is returning for a spotless bride and there will be a remanant that will allow God to perfect Him and at the end of the time of testuibng Jesus will return for His perfected bride.
. And during the Tribulation we will be tried and either be perfect or we will defect from the faith, the Bible calls this the great falling away,. However as you said Jesus is returning for a spotless bride and there will be a remanant that will allow God to perfect Him and at the end of the time of testuibng Jesus will return for His perfected bride.
Yes 1stjn32 God can do anything even perfect people like us . And during the Tribulation we will be tried and either be perfect or we will defect from the faith, the Bible calls this the great falling away,. However as you said Jesus is returning for a spotless bride and there will be a remanant that will allow God to perfect Him and at the end of the time of testuibng Jesus will return for His perfected bride.
. And during the Tribulation we will be tried and either be perfect or we will defect from the faith, the Bible calls this the great falling away,. However as you said Jesus is returning for a spotless bride and there will be a remanant that will allow God to perfect Him and at the end of the time of testuibng Jesus will return for His perfected bride.
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