Hope For Natural-Born LGBT

[PeterJens]

There is a mistake many people make, we are not all the same.
A young christian woman told of her sexual experimentation, and how disgusting she felt after participating in a lesbian relationship. This illustrates for her she is heterosexual, while others may not be. Her experience does not mean that all people will respond the same way but override their responses.

They have discovered for instance people vary how they smell things. At a chemical level, some things taste one way to them, and to others different. It can be shown some things taste sweet to these people and bitter to others.
Again to project ones own experiences onto others is a mistake.

Equally because you enjoy something does not make it right. It has been observed psychopaths enjoy torturing animals, and find it funny to inflict pain and suffering. They simply are missing the empathy areas of the brain, and do not understand what it is like to be the victim. It does not mean they cannot learn another way of being, but it does say there starting place is not where most are.

As followers of Jesus we are commited to loving people where they are, and working out ways to move them towards a place of love and completeness. The old ways of death to homosexuals, and chemical castration is not a good way to go. But that is the history of bigoted guilt ridden condemnation of sinful behaviour.

 

[microscoped]

If you are not a homosexual you have no right to fight for them. You have no clue what you are fighting for. Each and everyone of them live in condemnation from God at one time or at all times. They live in shame from there desires and actions. And more often than not they are homosexual only after being raped or molested. At this point the brain is twisted to believe that they are this way and its natural. Hence the 18 month old friend of webers that new when this spirit came in. Unless you stand and support shame i would cease at this time. God convicts for a reason. It is because he still loves the individual but wants them to shed the sin not live in it and be desensitized towards it.

 

[didymos]

I said it once and I'll say it again: I don't understand the whole "LGBT community thingy" to begin win. For starters why call it "LGBT," and not (in the right alphabetical order) "BGLT?" Are the lesbians that special? And why do they call it a "community" at all? The gays usually don't understand and aren't that symphathic to the lesbians, and vice versa. The Bisexuals aren't trusted or taken seriously by both, because both gays and lesbians feel their bisexuality is just a phase and an excuse to still be relatively acceptable to straights. And transgenders... well that's a whole different story.

 

[PeterJens]

If you are not a homosexual you have no right to fight for them. You have no clue what you are fighting for.

You are talking rubbish. You are a biggot who is projecting your ideas on to other people. I guarantee most homosexuals were neither raped nor molested.

I have a relative who grew up normally, and seemed fine until he moved in with another man. He was as suprised as to his orientation, because he had spent most of his life suppressing emotions.

Now to say this is how someone got to this place without talking to them is simple presumption.
It is like talking to a psychopath, teaching them how to empathise and then not realising it, all you have taught them is how to dupe people into the idea they are empathetic, while still completely capable of murdering with no guilt.
But then you probably do not agree that people can have empathy missing in them.

 

[PeterJens]

By the way being empathetic to someones position and situation is not fighting for them, it is doing what Jesus commands, loving them for who they are. It is not justifying their behaviour or saying it is not destructive to them and those they come into contact with.

Unfortunately for you, being of this world is saying when people are different from us, they are automatically wrong, because we are how everyone else should be. Jesus came to the lost, those who knew they were in trouble, with the ability to find a way out.

 

[microscoped]

This is where you have failed with helping with the problem itself. I have been molested and have been in the homosexual lifestyle. I am speaking from experience and knowledge you do not have nor could obtain. I know what i am talking about. The more people that accept homosexuality the harder it is for those who want to change.

 

[PeterJens]

This is where you have failed with helping with the problem itself. I have been molested and have been in the homosexual lifestyle. I am speaking from experience and knowledge you do not have nor could obtain. I know what i am talking about. The more people that accept homosexuality the harder it is for those who want to change.

Again you have extrapolated your experience on to others. Post traumatic stress and the reactions to abuse are difficult and as you have shown can lead to distortions in life. But this does not mean all homosexuals are similarly motivated. You do illustrate that sexuality is a biological and environmentally influenced behaviour. There are though many disturbed, depressed young people who do not know how to react to the emotional turmoil within, which often leads to suicide and desperation.

Being frankly honest too many "heterosexuals" are scared of intimacy and what this might mean as towards their sexual orientation. The truth is intimacy and love are more important than sex, and care shared between two people is a truly loving experience. So there is a lot of violence and anger rather than understanding and care. It might be part of human development is about exploring ones own identity and what you are attracted to. Being attracted to something is not a sin, it is just an emotional feeling which can often be directed or encouraged. What I have noticed is when people fall apart it is often their sexual drive that becomes stronger, because this is often the strongest motivation anyone possess.

Building up someone again, and putting sexuality in its proper place, starts with loving the individual, and valuing who they really are. So I am sceptical of those who condemn and simplify, rather than those who know what the whole experience of life really is in Jesus.

 

[microscoped]

You are ignorant of this subject. Read what i have read and really think it over. Compare what i have said to the bible and it will line up. It is only then that you can help.

 

[Elysian]

''Being attracted to something is not a sin'.Really?',many years ago(in my first marriage) I was attracted to other women(adultery),this was an ''emotional feeling'' and Satan was directing and encouraging it.Being attracted to something ungodly is sin.

 

[newlife7]

I think the problem lies in misunderstanding Christians when they point out that homosexuality is a sin. Just because a Christian points out that homosexuality is a sin does not mean they are claiming to be sinless themselves, it just means that what they have learned thus far in their walk with God tells them that it is a sin. What many people do not realize is that when Chrsitians point out sins, we assume the other people are aware that we know we are not perfect either and that we are just trying to help each other find the narrow road that leads to life.

 

[PeterJens]

''Being attracted to something is not a sin'.Really?',many years ago(in my first marriage) I was attracted to other women(adultery),this was an ''emotional feeling'' and Satan was directing and encouraging it.Being attracted to something ungodly is sin.

If a beautiful woman walks in the room, you can recognise she is beautiful, attractive. If this is sin, then being human is a sin. We are programmed to recognise the signals and emotionally respond. Now sin is taking this emotion and inappropriately acting on it. I would have a problem if you said satan was directing and encouraging an emotion, which is beyond his powers and 100% within your control. Part of gaining control of who we are is accepting the mechanisms that are going on within you, and then taking appropriate action.

The way you are talking is like a learner driver who hits a bump in the road and the wheel wants to turn one way in reaction.
The problem is the bump, not your reaction to it. The learner driver then says, the car took me off the road, it was not my fault. An experienced driver steers the car knowing everything has responded as expected and the appropriate reaction has taken place.

Unfortunately people who repress emotion and deny human reactions, end up with amplified responses which are worse than if the accepted their humanity and then took action.

 

[PeterJens]

You are ignorant of this subject. Read what i have read and really think it over. Compare what i have said to the bible and it will line up. It is only then that you can help.

I am not ignorant of biology, and the reality we are all born different, which different variations of chemistry, taste, appreciation etc. To give you one basic example scientists made a mistake with is testing drugs on males and not female mice. It turns out in mamals females are more sensitive to pain and certain drugs than males are. You therefore have to test equally on both groups.

God does not say because you like something, or have a desire for it, you are innocent. If a person is very angry or very quiet, or very open or very happy, it does not make these states ok, unless they can choose them.
So whatever the causes of homosexuality it does not follow either people can change or the cause is singular.
If for instance you are born with mixed biology, neither male or female, what do you do?
Are you to say God got it wrong?

Firstly I would say God does not intervene at the level of genetics and failure, the system works with checks and balances, so the offspring who are functional at a reasonable level survive. Now those that do not work, are discarded, laid bare, left alone, given one life to lead, and then nothing. Now homosexuality is an abberation, a mixture of objectives.
Unless you have an effective way of distinguishing between emotional distortion due to the environment and those biologically set one way or not, it is pompous to declare people in effect can be cured.

Our family have friends who are gay, of people who at 3 years old displayed behaviour that linked them closer to the opposite sex than the one they were born into.

Now take the prodigal son. Did God stop him going the wrong way, or let him learn for himself. So likewise these individuals need to discover their own identity and how they work, and what compromises they can make over time.

Now I am sorry to say, if you have this level of problems over being gay, the bigger problem is over child abuse, and sexual deviant behaviour. The statistics are this issue is bigger than the gay issue, and in need of more research and understanding.

The fundemental understanding is by feeding such habits through fantasy, you can control how it works out in real life. This is why pornography is justified, and the more open sexualisation of society. I know this is wrong, but it is an argument of intimacy, love and good relationships against carnality and desperation, where people compromise everything for a quick fix.

This discussion also spills over into legalism, which is hypocracy, and finding real answers to emotional needs deep with in individuals. This is where Jesus walks, with power and authority but most neither understand the language or have the patience and honesty to admit what the walk really is.

 

[WebersHome]

-
Seeing as how it isn't the purpose of the OP to condemn LGBT, nor to
discuss their politics, but instead to direct them to safety; I'm going to take
a moment to reiterate a couple of things for the benefit of any who might be
visiting today.
_____________________________

Eternal life is often mistaken for immortality. The two are not one and the
same. Immortality defines the nature of a superhuman body impervious to
death and putrefaction; and seeing as how Christ's believing followers die
every day around clock, then it's obvious that they don't have immortality
yet; and according to Rom 8:23-25 and 1Cor 15:35-58 his believing
followers won't have immortality till some time in the future.

Eternal life, on the other hand, is neither physical nor visible: it defines the
nature of God-- the divine being who never sins, who cannot sin, and who
cannot be tempted to sin. The possibility of obtaining God's sinless
perfection is directly associated with Christ's crucifixion as per John 3:14-16.
Note that I didn't say attain, I said obtain; there's a difference.

Also, LGBT are not the worst of sinners. Many others are billed right along
with them at Rom 1:26-32 and 1Cor 6:9-10.

=======================================

 

[peacefulbeliever]

-
Seeing as how it isn't the purpose of the OP to condemn LGBT, nor to
discuss their politics, but instead to direct them to safety; I'm going to take
a moment to reiterate a couple of things for the benefit of any who might be
visiting today.
_____________________________

Eternal life is often mistaken for immortality. The two are not one and the
same. Immortality defines the nature of a superhuman body impervious to
death and putrefaction; and seeing as how Christ's believing followers die
every day around clock, then it's obvious that they don't have immortality
yet; and according to Rom 8:23-25 and 1Cor 15:35-58 his believing
followers won't have immortality till some time in the future.

Eternal life, on the other hand, is neither physical nor visible: it defines the
nature of God-- the divine being who never sins, who cannot sin, and who
cannot be tempted to sin. The possibility of obtaining God's sinless
perfection is directly associated with Christ's crucifixion as per John 3:14-16.
Note that I didn't say attain, I said obtain; there's a difference.

Also, LGBT are not the worst of sinners. Many others are billed right along
with them at Rom 1:26-32 and 1Cor 6:9-10.

=======================================

Romans 1 shows the progression that leads men and women "to vile affections".

1. When they knew God [intellectually but NOT relationally] they glorified him not as God
2. Were not thankful
3. vain in their own imaginations
4. foolish hearts were darkened
5. changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into a corruptible image [idolatry]
6. Because of this God gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts
7. They dishonor their own bodies between themselves
8. They changed the truth of God into a lie and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator
9. Because of this God gave them up unto vile affections
10. women changing the natural use into that which is against nature
11. Also men leaving the natural use of the woman and burned in their lust one toward another
12. Did not like to retain God in their knowledge
13. And because of this God gave them over to a reprobate mind
14. They were also filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, . . .

So besides changing the natural use between a man and a woman - they also committed, were filled with, all of the things listed.

 

[Bowhunter2394]

-
Seeing as how it isn't the purpose of the OP to condemn LGBT, nor to
discuss their politics, but instead to direct them to safety; I'm going to take
a moment to reiterate a couple of things for the benefit of any who might be
visiting today.
_____________________________

Eternal life is often mistaken for immortality. The two are not one and the
same. Immortality defines the nature of a superhuman body impervious to
death and putrefaction; and seeing as how Christ's believing followers die
every day around clock, then it's obvious that they don't have immortality
yet; and according to Rom 8:23-25 and 1Cor 15:35-58 his believing
followers won't have immortality till some time in the future.

Eternal life, on the other hand, is neither physical nor visible: it defines the
nature of God-- the divine being who never sins, who cannot sin, and who
cannot be tempted to sin. The possibility of obtaining God's sinless
perfection is directly associated with Christ's crucifixion as per John 3:14-16.
Note that I didn't say attain, I said obtain; there's a difference.

Also, LGBT are not the worst of sinners. Many others are billed right along
with them at Rom 1:26-32 and 1Cor 6:9-10.

=======================================

Some of the LGBT people out there today.. in the future, They will Enter the Kingdom of God before some of the most professing, intellectual, educated, in- doctrinated 'christians' on here,

for many are called BUT FEW ARE CHOSEN... INDEED!

 

[microscoped]

-
Seeing as how it isn't the purpose of the OP to condemn LGBT, nor to
discuss their politics, but instead to direct them to safety; I'm going to take
a moment to reiterate a couple of things for the benefit of any who might be
visiting today.
_____________________________

Eternal life is often mistaken for immortality. The two are not one and the
same. Immortality defines the nature of a superhuman body impervious to
death and putrefaction; and seeing as how Christ's believing followers die
every day around clock, then it's obvious that they don't have immortality
yet; and according to Rom 8:23-25 and 1Cor 15:35-58 his believing
followers won't have immortality till some time in the future.

Eternal life, on the other hand, is neither physical nor visible: it defines the
nature of God-- the divine being who never sins, who cannot sin, and who
cannot be tempted to sin. The possibility of obtaining God's sinless
perfection is directly associated with Christ's crucifixion as per John 3:14-16.
Note that I didn't say attain, I said obtain; there's a difference.

Also, LGBT are not the worst of sinners. Many others are billed right along
with them at Rom 1:26-32 and 1Cor 6:9-10.

=======================================

I take it since you have not denied my stance you agree that I am correct. By not addressing the real issues of why you will never see heaven. I will make one for instance as the bible says sin is sin. I will be as blunt as possible so all can see. If your sin was murder and we accepted you murdering five more times and said nothing but you were born different come as you are you don't have to stop yet you can continue in your sin until you are comfortable or until the church accepts your murderous nature. And if you are really charismatic we will make you our pastor and you can turn our children into murderers or can take them and kill them. Would I then be wrong. Accepting of a person that wants to change is different than one who will not and wants acceptance anyways. You are the ladder and know it. Your sin unless you forgive and allow Christ in and repent and do a 180 will consume you.

 

[dcontroversal]

I do not believe that one is born that way.....sexual immorality is a sin, it is a choice, it is based upon lust and the end result of rejecting the word of God and final straw before God judges......it is one who has been given over to a reprobate mind, void of judgment with no spiritual discernment.....Romans teaches this.........!

 

[WebersHome]

-

Romans 1 shows the progression that leads men and women "to vile
affections".

Rom 1:18-32 is a very popular weapon in common use for bashing LGBT.
But the problem with that is: the passage doesn't single anyone out. It is, in
fact, an indictment against the entire human race. The pronoun "they" used
throughout refers to the race as a corporation; sort of like Nike or General
Motors.

So if we're going to use that passage to bash LGBT, then in fairness, we
should be using it to bash all the rest of the sinners billed in there; and it is
quite an extensive billing-- extensive enough that I'm pretty sure everyone
can find themselves bashed in there somewhere.

==================================

 

[microscoped]

Webers please address what I have written

 

[Elysian]

People aren't born as homosexuals. If that were so, it would relieve them from all responsibility of what they do if they can point fingers to say God made them this way.

Rather, we are all born with a certain amount of lust because of our fallen nature. Some lusts are greater, deeper, or perverted. Sex is a learned behavior. So if someone with a homosexual type of lust acts on it, it can then become sin. To be tempted is not sin. Jesus was tempted but He never sinned.

The death and resurrection of Jesus Christ has made a way to free us from our sin so we might live. Death is the wage of sin.

And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
romans 12:2

Years ago it was thought that we were either born left or right landed,but now we know it is a learned behavior.The truth is homosexuality is most likely also a learned behavior and a honest and switched on person would have little doubt in concluding it a psychological disorder, as it was once classed and in the same sense as OCD, and myriads of other disorders and phobias.The fact is when homosexuals are allowed to lie and claim they were born that way(because there is no proof homosexuality is genetic and neither will there ever be) it releases them from any responsibility and drags all of society onto a slippery slope,or more aptly a spiraling nose dive.Further more the homosexual agenda is not about equal rights,homosexuals are humans and have those already.These people choose a lifestyle and by doing so are continually convicted by there consciousess and if by forcing everyone to accept there practices will help them live with themselves a little better and give them some temporary happiness then as far as they are concerned so be it.

Finally there are those who are manipulating the homosexual movement to further their own ends,these people are social engineers and world leaders who have a greater and more evil agenda and who will throw the homosexual movement out with the bath water as soon as they have served their purpose.