How can God judge and remain just?

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M

Miri

Guest
#21
How can God remain just and not judge!


- think pass over, think what happened at the Passover. The firstborn of every family
died, that’s unless they were willing to put their faith in a lamb.

- the pass over lamb is still what keeps us from death if we put our faith in it.


Oh everyone beat me to it. Lol
 
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Dec 12, 2013
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#22
God is God....He has made the way of reconciliation possible, testifies by creation and the invisible, gives it away free and humanity is without excuse.
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
#23
I am not planning on getting into this. But was simply curious how people answer.

So basically God has to judge who will be saved and who will not be. Satan and his angels got cast out of Heaven for sin.

Adam and Eve God cast out of Eden for sin.

All of us have sinned.

So how is God going to let some in and others not in?


I hope there will be a little thought go into this as it requires such. Jesus did die for sins. But not everyone who says Lord Lord etc, is going.

Belief in Jesus is also not a great answer as it means different things to different people. SO if you can unpack what belief in Jesus means practically for the christian.

Blessings.
everyone

guilty of even 1 sin
is going to hell

this is just


but God is not only just

He is loving
and has an abundance of mercy

when Jesus died on the cross
this was a sacrifice in which
He payed for every sin of the WHOLE world....

so that those who believe on Him can be seen as sinless as He is


those who are born again

are adopted children

every single sin is covered by the blood of Jesus
(all glory goes to Him)

and we who have sinned but been born again

will have the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ

our Lord and savior

we are justified by His righteousness

Romans 5:19

“For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.”


praise God

:eek:
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
#24
everyone

guilty of even 1 sin
is going to hell

this is just


but God is not only just

He is loving
and has an abundance of mercy

when Jesus died on the cross
this was a sacrifice in which
He payed for every sin of the WHOLE world....

so that those who believe on Him can be seen as sinless as He is


those who are born again

are adopted children

every single sin is covered by the blood of Jesus
(all glory goes to Him)

and we who have sinned but been born again

will have the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ

our Lord and savior

we are justified by His righteousness

Romans 5:19

“For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.”


praise God

:eek:
Matthew 7:21-23
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

The will of the Father

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
These men believe in their "wonderful works" to save them... not Jesus

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Because they have not submitted to His righteousness they will still have the sins they commit to answer for




__________


will of the Father?

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
#25
one last post

i hope this isnt too long winded my friend


romans 9

30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.


Romans 10
10 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth




may God bless you
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#26
Universalism is a lie.

And, in your scenario you're saying either God saves everyone or we save ourselves.

And cutting down propitiation to merely "appeasement", (which it is, but so much more than that when we talk about God), is a grand way to make it about people earning their own salvation.

Here's a good article on propitiation.
Universalism states that all will be saved, and that is not what I have stated. On the contrary, I said, salvation is available to all and as we learn from scripture, His desire is that all be saved. Unfortunately, for God, this is not the case because man has rejected the light and loved darkness (John 3:19).

In the scenario presented, which is reality, God has made a way (The Way), for men to repent and be saved. He draws them, and the Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin, righteousness, and judgement. This God's word says the Holy Spirit does to the world, and so none are without excuse. If the Lord convicts the world, and not all are saved (which they aren't, this isn't universalism) then man has rejected the truth, loved the darkness, and alienated themselves from God.

We cannot save ourselves for without God's conviction of the truth we would still be in darkness. God draws. We repent. The boast? In the one who has saved us. The glory goes to God.
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
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#27
Hey guys, thanx for the answers.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,692
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#28
I am not planning on getting into this. But was simply curious how people answer.
...
Adam and Eve God cast out of Eden for sin.
I don't see that in Scripture. What I see is written in Genesis 3:22 - 24, that God drove the man (and the woman) so that, now knowing good and evil, he could not take from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever.

To me that is an expression of the love of God. It's a consequence of sin, but not judgment for it.
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
2,180
107
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#29
I don't see that in Scripture. What I see is written in Genesis 3:22 - 24, that God drove the man (and the woman) so that, now knowing good and evil, he could not take from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever.

To me that is an expression of the love of God. It's a consequence of sin, but not judgment for it.
I missed this - good pick-up Dino!
 

Peacebwu

Junior Member
Feb 20, 2018
4
0
0
#30
How can God be just and not judge? He created all creation to have free will andchoice. In that free will and choiceallowed for being so much greater intelligence and opportunity to sin becausethey were not praise robots. An angelfalls because he decided to be like God and compete. He takes a host of angels with him out offree will they all had. Then gameon…Lucifer the artist of beauty and music now works to destroy anything Godcreates. God created man and woman andsaid it was good. Satan didn’t go forthe animals or try to just destroy the amazing garden. He went for God’s heart…humanity. The man and woman made in God’s image withfree will to walk in that perfect beautiful intimacy by following a protective authorityand the one rule made to keep them safe but still allow free will. Satan comes onto the seen to twist, deceive,kill, steal and destroy. He knows afterhis fall what awaits mankind if he can deceive them into disobedience too. God created with the free will knowing we’dfail. He created knowing the outeroutcome and yet His desire for relationship with us was greater than the painHe could see that would come. Therefore,He created a way back through Jesus. Prior to Jesus and post the garden man had to see the consequences oftheir decision and their inability to keep laws. There were many laws put into place, given toman by God, for protection and blessing under the new sinful bent structure. Because God the Father is a righteous God hecould not look at sin at all. There wasa separation we couldn’t atone for. There couldn’t be enough blood shed to cover mankind’s sin. When Jesus came He allowed a way to abolishthe need for animal sacrifices. He tookon the weigh of the world to take all guilt, shame and pain. He had always operated as one with the Fatherand Holy Spirit. To feel that separationand pain for the Father’s face to turn away as He took on the lonely task ofshouldering our wretchedness must have been absolutely shattering to the fleshHe took on. Isn’t that exactly why Hecan sympathize with our grief and pain? We feel that separation in our sin nature, we at times feel very alone,and we suffer at times. Jesus took allthat to the cross for past, present and future. Because Jesus made this ultimate sacrifice theFather can now see us through the cleansing of Jesus blood and by his stripeswe are healed. However, only if we useour free will to believe and have Faith. Only by repentance and recognition that we need a savior. Only if we accept Jesus Christ’s greatsacrifice and gift of salvation can we be atoned and able to walk inrelationship given an opportunity to walk in the Spirit. We then become sons/daughters in Christ. Adopted into the kingdom of God to live in arestored perfect heaven someday.
Would it be just if a judge on earth allowed a rapist andmurder to go free? No! There’s a cost to pay for sin. How much more just is God in heaven for notonly giving a just sentence but allowing grace for a repentive heart allowingfor redemption and restoration. It maymean there’s a natural consequence of sin for a time. However, we are all sinners and not one isrighteous. Therefore, we all desperatelyneed the grace and forgiveness by a gracious God that gives a gift free tothose that believe. It’s not by ourworks or any good that we should ever be able to boast that we made theway. It’s by true grace.
Just because someone believe there is a God doesn’t mean athing. Even the demons know there is a Godand tremble. Just because someone hastried to do all the right things and did good, like the Pharisees, doesn’t makea way to the Father either. It’s only byaccepting a free gift of grace and truly living in relationship with that vinedo we make the cut. If any understandgardening or growing trees they understand you must cut the dead (deadhead) togrow and thrive the bush, tree, plant. God trims and cuts out our dead wood. He trims us in love. If you haveaccepted and walk in the Spirit you know you are accepted and doing so becauseGod chastens those He loves and speaks to those who seek Him. It’s a gift as children of God we get inorder to be in a relationship and receive His guidance while we wait to see Himface to face. If one doubts in the fleshhe/she has done all that’s required in faith, as our faith can lack at times,then ask and He is faithful to answer those who seek or knock withsteadfastness. I’ve asked God in timesof weakness and He’s been so loving to answer me with his still small quietvoice that He loves me and I will see Him someday in glory.
 

stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
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Walk trough the valley
#31
"All manner of sin shall be forgiven to man but rejecting the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven to man."
The Holy Spirit leads us in the truth, to Love as God Loves, and forgive our enemies and be forgiven.
Jesus said that even rejecting Him would be forgiven and on the night of His betrayal said to His disciples, all of you will forsake me this night. Without the Holy Spirit our best would be like Peter. "Jesus is the saviour of all men, especially of them that believe." This is the meaning of not by works of righteousness that we have done, "Whosoever will may come and drink of the water of life freely." Once we drink of the water of live, work is no longer work as we are satisfied; unless we turn again to the world for help to seek in creature what is found in God, and like the prodigal sow we are forgiven as we learn to continually repent of ungodliness and worldly lust. Some will be saved as trough fire and lose their reward: They will not rule (serve) in Love with Christ in the first resurrection...
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
2,270
369
83
#32
I am not planning on getting into this. But was simply curious how people answer.

So basically God has to judge who will be saved and who will not be. Satan and his angels got cast out of Heaven for sin.

Adam and Eve God cast out of Eden for sin.

All of us have sinned.

So how is God going to let some in and others not in?


I hope there will be a little thought go into this as it requires such. Jesus did die for sins. But not everyone who says Lord Lord etc, is going.

Belief in Jesus is also not a great answer as it means different things to different people. SO if you can unpack what belief in Jesus means practically for the christian.

Blessings.

Either you’re covered by Christ’s blood or you’re not- that is the difference between the righteous and the unrighteous- both of which have sinned. How do we get Christ’s blood? We are baptized into His death where He shed His blood. Romans 6 says if we join Him like this (baptism- which is obeying the gospel) in His death, that we will also join Him in His resurrection.

How do we keep His blood? By partaking of the Lord’s Supper upon the first day of the week (Sunday) in the assembly of the saints (gathering of Christians/church). Also by staying obedient and faithful to God. Grace (Christ’s blood) does not cover living in deliberate premeditated sin. “But if you sin willfully there no longer remains a sacrifice for your sins.” We must take up our cross daily and walk in His footsteps.

That is how He is just- Christ’s blood justified us (just if I’d never even sinned at all).
 
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May 20, 2016
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#33
I am not planning on getting into this. But was simply curious how people answer.

So basically God has to judge who will be saved and who will not be. Satan and his angels got cast out of Heaven for sin.

Adam and Eve God cast out of Eden for sin.

All of us have sinned.

So how is God going to let some in and others not in?


I hope there will be a little thought go into this as it requires such. Jesus did die for sins. But not everyone who says Lord Lord etc, is going.

Belief in Jesus is also not a great answer as it means different things to different people. SO if you can unpack what belief in Jesus means practically for the christian.

Blessings.

So how is God going to let some in and others not in?
God lets His people in, not lets the devils in.

Who are His people ?.
They are who have already been with Him before the creation of the world / who He planed since before the foundation of the world / His chosen / names those were already written before the creation of the world in the book of life ( Eph1:4 ) , all of them were in zero state at the first place ( with no knowledge, with no ability ) , they should be sent gradually to sojourn/wander to this perishable world for their growths , because only in this perishable world growths are there (no growth in eternal world ).

For example:
Jer1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.


Rom9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated
(Rom9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed
Verses 7 & 8 explain verse 13 above ).

So we know now , the distinction between Esau and Jacob is : spiritual being inside Jacob when he was born is His / God placed Jacob’s spirit inside the baby like Jeremiah , but not placed any one in Esau or Esau was born of flesh and Jacob was born of God ( John1:12-13) .

These such Esau one day are possible to be the devils camp, with the deeds of these camp so the devils surely shall be judged unless the devils will never be able to be judged , there will never be devil who transform to be the angel of light, there will never be the anti Christ , His churches will never be able to judge the angels (1Cor6:3) .

John8:44 Ye are of your father the devil (devil’s camp), and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it

Rev20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works



And exactly remain just.

Mat25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels

Rom9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction ( there were vessels of wrath in the eternal realm before the earth was form ---> devils ).

Rom9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,( there were vessels of mercy in the eternal realm before the earth was formed ----> His people/ the Chosen ).

2Pet2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished (devils and his allies/the losers parabled such the dead in the desert in Mosses age ).
 
May 20, 2016
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#34
Belief in Jesus is also not a great answer as it means different things to different people. SO if you can unpack what belief in Jesus means practically for the christian.
Believe in Jesus means : believe that Salvation/ Living peacefully with God is only by God’s Grace, or men will never be able to achieve their salvation by their own works what ever those sound good ( Isa 64:6 )( likened such who works on Sabbath day should be punished to dead ).

Believe in Jesus means : The cross event ( death and resurrection ) actually was manifestation of God’s Grace , He acted as : sacrifice lamb , the holly priest , the one who is sanctified .

This role can be described as:

In OT have already said that man is sanctified by sprinkling the blood of the sacrifice lamb were done by the priest = being saved = resurrecting from dead , these were the tasks that the messiah should demonstrate in order men could understand that their salvation is only by God’s Grace .

We sum them as :” Men ,You will never save your self or others what ever effort you may try, because the salvation is only by God’s grace (Eph2:8) , that is what I want to demonstrate to you, I will be killed and three days later I shall resurrect from dead that you may know : the sacrifice blood is my blood = God blood , the priest is me as manifestation of God, the man who is sanctified will be acted by Me that shows you if the salvation is only for the chosen ( not man who says want , but only he or she whom the heart is made to want /written in the book of life before the creation of the world) , then by this event comes to pass you will understand that the salvation is only by God’s Grace, and you that believe (believe if this event is really manifestation of God’s grace ) is the winner you shall be resurrected too in the last day, and you that don’t believe you are the loser because you will surely say that I am not God Him self , and consider Me as a created being as you are , then if I am a created being surely I am spiritually dead too as you are ,then I shall reach My salvation too by this event( by this event I shall pay my own sins) means this event surely not a manifestation of God’s Grace or there is no premise “salvation is only by God’s Grace “ and every one shall pay their sins by their own effort , then why can’t you fulfill the Torah laws? , why am I said savior? (Luk2:11), why am I said Redeemer? (Eph1:7), you that don’t believe you are really a loser certainly you are walking to the lof “.

Isa43:3 For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee

Isa43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no savior

Isa47:4 As for our redeemer, the LORD of hosts is his name, the Holy One of Israel

Isa63:16 Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting.

Rev1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood

Rev5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation


Luk2:11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord

Eph1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;


Hence by His demonstration from that day men began to know that the salvation is only by God Grace by this understanding means men can bring glory to God
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
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#35
Hello gotime,

So how is God going to let some in and others not in?


As I'm sure that you know, scripture states that "no man comes to the Father but by me." The complimenting scripture is: "No man comes to the Son except the Father draws him." And "whoever has the Son has life, whoever does not have the Son does not have life."

So right off the bat, anyone who dies without Christ dies in their sins and God's wrath remains on them. For believers, Christ was held accountable for their sins. Those who die without Christ, they will be held accountable for their own sins.

Regarding your reference to "Lord, Lord" this is in reference to those who will have been trusting in their own efforts. This can be deduced from their own response when they find out that they can't enter in to the kingdom of God when they say " 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?' Their response demonstrates that the reason for why they should be able to enter the kingdom of God is because of their own efforts." No one enters into the kingdom of God by performing works. We enter into the kingdom of God trusting in Christ as the One who provided salvation for us by the shedding of His blood. And I see a lot of these people on this site claiming that Christ is the only way, yet they have added their own work requirements along side of Christ's sacrifice, which is basically saying that Christ's sacrifice was insufficient.



 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
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#36
Ah man! I thought I got dumb and weak all from just being me.
It just makes me wonder.

But I wonder more about people who say that salvation is for everyone.

Because the obvious question becomes "How come we are saved but they are not?"

Is it because we are smarter than they are? Mmmm... I will say probably not...

Is it because we need more help than they do? Then this begs the question 'Why didn't the Lord break them the way He broke us'?


I don't pretend that I know the answers to these questions because only God knows.

But we both know that Salvation wasn't dependent on our wisdom or our strength. We weren't smart enough or strong enough to make all the Good Choices that are required to follow our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

We may have had good intentions. But good intentions don't secure Salvation.
 

LaurieB

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2018
177
10
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#37
Grandpa;3515277[SIZE=3 said:
But I wonder more about people who say that salvation is for everyone.
Because the obvious question becomes "How come we are saved but they are not?"Is it because we are smarter than they are? Mmmm... I will say probably not...
Is it because we need more help than they do? Then this begs the question 'Why didn't the Lord break them the way He broke us'?
I don't pretend that I know the answers to these questions because only God knows.
But we both know that Salvation wasn't dependent on our wisdom or our strength. We weren't smart enough or strong enough to make all the Good Choices that are required to follow our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

We may have had good intentions. But good intentions don't secure Salvation.[/SIZE]

We are saved if we believe what we are told to believe ... by Faith alone in Jesus Christ, who died for our sins.

When I think on this, I can only say that we are lucky to have been born into the right religion and the right belief system. Think of all those who are born into the wrong religion, who believe what they are taught from early childhood on, and who will go to Hell for that. Somehow it bothers me and does not make sense. Literally 6.5 billion people are not born again Christians. Only 1 billion are .. out of those how many are saved? It is frightening and disturbing. Can anyone answer this for me? God is Just and Fair ... yet, these people are "innocent" .. they do not know Him not out of any choice, but because of birth and parentage. I believe what my parents and church taught me. They believe what their parents and church/synogogue, etc., taught them.

Can anyone answer this question because it plagues me. It really does.
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
#38

We are saved if we believe what we are told to believe ... by Faith alone in Jesus Christ, who died for our sins.

When I think on this, I can only say that we are lucky to have been born into the right religion and the right belief system. Think of all those who are born into the wrong religion, who believe what they are taught from early childhood on, and who will go to Hell for that. Somehow it bothers me and does not make sense. Literally 6.5 billion people are not born again Christians. Only 1 billion are .. out of those how many are saved? It is frightening and disturbing. Can anyone answer this for me? God is Just and Fair ... yet, these people are "innocent" .. they do not know Him not out of any choice, but because of birth and parentage. I believe what my parents and church taught me. They believe what their parents and church/synogogue, etc., taught them.

Can anyone answer this question because it plagues me. It really does.
where you are born in flesh may have a direct impact on how often you hear the truth

that does not mean you will actually HEAR the truth


same with lies
i dont believe what my parents believe either...

God calls EVERY SINGLE ONE of His children you know?


John 6:44
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

(He even gets glory for our faith.... not just His grace)
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
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#39

We are saved if we believe what we are told to believe ... by Faith alone in Jesus Christ, who died for our sins.

When I think on this, I can only say that we are lucky to have been born into the right religion and the right belief system. Think of all those who are born into the wrong religion, who believe what they are taught from early childhood on, and who will go to Hell for that. Somehow it bothers me and does not make sense. Literally 6.5 billion people are not born again Christians. Only 1 billion are .. out of those how many are saved? It is frightening and disturbing. Can anyone answer this for me? God is Just and Fair ... yet, these people are "innocent" .. they do not know Him not out of any choice, but because of birth and parentage. I believe what my parents and church taught me. They believe what their parents and church/synogogue, etc., taught them.

Can anyone answer this question because it plagues me. It really does.
First we must correct the premise that they are innocent. They are not innocent but guilty before God.

The gospel has gone into all the world. There are parts of the world where evil men have suppressed the gospel and allowed evil to rule. The children and the children's children of these are suffering because of this self imposed darkness.

John 3:15-21 shows forth Gods great provision and mans rejection along with the reasons. It is sad and it should plague all of us. Its called a burden for lost souls. I cannot reach them all but by Gods grace I will reach those He allows me to reach.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

LaurieB

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2018
177
10
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#40
First we must correct the premise that they are innocent. They are not innocent but guilty before God.

The gospel has gone into all the world. There are parts of the world where evil men have suppressed the gospel and allowed evil to rule. The children and the children's children of these are suffering because of this self imposed darkness.

John 3:15-21 shows forth Gods great provision and mans rejection along with the reasons. It is sad and it should plague all of us. Its called a burden for lost souls. I cannot reach them all but by Gods grace I will reach those He allows me to reach.

In other words, people who remain in their own faith system (taught to them by their parents, parents-parents and who do not accept the Christian gospel ... are evil.

I will turn it around for a moment: Let us say a Jew comes up to me and tries to convert me. I tell him no. I am a Christian. I was born a Christian and thank you but NO thank you. My mind tells me that I am correct and that he/she has it all wrong. Does this make me evil, or just ignorant of the truth?
Finally for those who do NOT oppose the gospel directly (in other words, their children and their children's children ... are those ones also going to Hell?