How do commentators know what the shadows of Christ are?

[oldhermit]

General Principles of Gen. 16:1-4 -- Take Two.

Man's going to do what Man's going to do with or without God's promises.

Man will get in trouble every single time for doing this.

God will still love his kids (those adopted by him) and will still keep his promise.

Man gets to spend the rest of his life regretting not trusting God's word, but, even the consequences aren't all bad. (Abraham loved Ishmael.)

Did I finally get what you're saying? (Or am I still missing it?

)

Are you seeing the difference between generalization and interpretation?

 

[oldthennew]

1COR.14:20.
Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.

for us, we were led from the beginning to spend hours and hours in the scriptures without much out-side
influence as far as other reading material, etc.
THANKFULLY, there was NO internet at the time, but then again on second thought, we were without
electricity back then, for this was also a very big part of our being RENEWED.....this is how
our Father worked with us in the very beginning, it was very much like an apprenticeship, and it was like
we were being prodded and driven and we just could not, did not, want to stay away from His Word....
we were so hungry, and just needed His Holiness to hold us up...He was replacing our 'worldly knowledge'
and thinking with His Godly Knowledge and He was having us build a solid foundation through these means....

in some cases we ARE to be like little children, but it is clearly written about understanding, that we,
at the proper time in our walk will become adults in our understanding and be able to eat the meat
that is for the well-seasoned.

thank goodness, Atwhatcost,
that our Father is leading you and your husband in strengthening your foundation by instruction,
teaching, and principles....our Father has provided you with a very good INSTRUCTOR in Oldhermit,
he has evidently spent much of his life in our Father's will and it is wonderful that he is led to share his
knowledge and wisdom and understanding...



we really like the tenor of the thread, as it's about what we all so desperately desire, Spiritual Growth....

AMEN, PRAISE GOD, and may we ALL become better children of the Most High God and may put Him
in the very forefront of our lives, daily...

 

[atwhatcost]

Are you seeing the difference between generalization and interpretation?

I was hoping you'd tell me. lol

Sorry. Nope. Me generalizing is me interpreting. I read what I read, think of other examples, and then interpret what happens when. So, what is the difference? (Not a question of defeat. A question because I still don't understand.)

 

[atwhatcost]

1COR.14:20.
Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.

for us, we were led from the beginning to spend hours and hours in the scriptures without much out-side
influence as far as other reading material, etc.
THANKFULLY, there was NO internet at the time, but then again on second thought, we were without
electricity back then, for this was also a very big part of our being RENEWED.....this is how
our Father worked with us in the very beginning, it was very much like an apprenticeship, and it was like
we were being prodded and driven and we just could not, did not, want to stay away from His Word....
we were so hungry, and just needed His Holiness to hold us up...He was replacing our 'worldly knowledge'
and thinking with His Godly Knowledge and He was having us build a solid foundation through these means....

in some cases we ARE to be like little children, but it is clearly written about understanding, that we,
at the proper time in our walk will become adults in our understanding and be able to eat the meat
that is for the well-seasoned.

thank goodness, Atwhatcost,
that our Father is leading you and your husband in strengthening your foundation by instruction,
teaching, and principles....our Father has provided you with a very good INSTRUCTOR in Oldhermit,
he has evidently spent much of his life in our Father's will and it is wonderful that he is led to share his
knowledge and wisdom and understanding...



we really like the tenor of the thread, as it's about what we all so desperately desire, Spiritual Growth....

AMEN, PRAISE GOD, and may we ALL become better children of the Most High God and may put Him
in the very forefront of our lives, daily...

I remember BI. (Before Internet. lol) You were smart to dig into his word and get answers there. I felt then about the same way I feel today, forever fearful I'm too dumb to get what God is giving me. So, instead of Internet, I got from tracts, "Christian" magazines, traveling preachers, preachers unskilled and untrained to preach, evangelists who thought they were teachers too, what other people older than me believed (thus they had to be smarter, right? and when you're in your late teens to 30 years old just about everyone is older), and reading a Bible.

I feel like I was raised on junk food, and now I need to eat right.

 

[oldhermit]

I was hoping you'd tell me. lol

Sorry. Nope. Me generalizing is me interpreting. I read what I read, think of other examples, and then interpret what happens when. So, what is the difference? (Not a question of defeat. A question because I still don't understand.)

I suppose I must accept the responsibility for this. It seems I am much better at practicing generalization that I am at teaching it. Biblical generalization is simply a reading of the text that allows the language of the text to supply meaning. This is much different than simply an interpretive reading of the text. When we read scripture, we have an unfailing habit of trying to interpret the text. This is the way we have always done it and most feel this is the only valid way of approaching the text. For some reason, we feel this is the only way we can come to understand the meaning of scripture. The problem with interpretation is that it always starts with human reason rather than with the language of the test. I am sure you recognize the fact that the interpretation of any given text will always be as varied as the number of people that read it and as equally contradictory. Interpretation is always the product of human intelligence operating upon the test. Peter says we do not have the right to approach scripture in this way, 2 Pet. 1:20. What we must learn to do is generalize from the text. We have ample examples of this in scripture. The difference is that interpretation ALWAYS approaches the text from the vantage point of human experience, this would be history and culture. Biblical generalization dismisses human experience as a valid starting point for the reading of the text. Human experience is not revelation. Biblical generalizations are principles that can be proven across the board in every biblical narrative where these principles show up and they will NEVER contradict another biblical generalization. Interpretation from multiple sources is almost always contradictory.

Consider Abraham in the sacrifice of Isaac as a perfect example of generalization. When God commanded Abraham to sacrifice Isaac he concluded that God was able to raise him from the dead. Where did he get this idea? God did not reveal it to him so how could he have possibly come to this conclusion? This generalization flies in the face of all reason, logic, and human experience. Abraham generalized this fact based upon the promises of God. To do this Abraham had to dismiss everything he knew by experience about death and sacrifices. This is just one of many cases where people of God employed generalization of the word of God to arrive at eternal truths. There are also many examples where people's interpretation of the word of God resulted in nothing but disaster.

 

[atwhatcost]

Hey, Old Hermit? Insomnia is back. I can think when it's this bad, but I can't think deep thoughts. You give me deep thoughts. As soon as my brain can understand deep thoughts again, I'll be back to try and figure out what you're saying in last post. If it takes more than a couple of days, I'll nudge you in PM when I finally respond. Sorry about this.

 

[atwhatcost]

I suppose I must accept the responsibility for this. It seems I am much better at practicing generalization that I am at teaching it. Biblical generalization is simply a reading of the text that allows the language of the text to supply meaning. This is much different than simply an interpretive reading of the text. When we read scripture, we have an unfailing habit of trying to interpret the text. This is the way we have always done it and most feel this is the only valid way of approaching the text. For some reason, we feel this is the only way we can come to understand the meaning of scripture. The problem with interpretation is that it always starts with human reason rather than with the language of the test. I am sure you recognize the fact that the interpretation of any given text will always be as varied as the number of people that read it and as equally contradictory. Interpretation is always the product of human intelligence operating upon the test. Peter says we do not have the right to approach scripture in this way, 2 Pet. 1:20. What we must learn to do is generalize from the text. We have ample examples of this in scripture. The difference is that interpretation ALWAYS approaches the text from the vantage point of human experience, this would be history and culture. Biblical generalization dismisses human experience as a valid starting point for the reading of the text. Human experience is not revelation. Biblical generalizations are principles that can be proven across the board in every biblical narrative where these principles show up and they will NEVER contradict another biblical generalization. Interpretation from multiple sources is almost always contradictory.

Consider Abraham in the sacrifice of Isaac as a perfect example of generalization. When God commanded Abraham to sacrifice Isaac he concluded that God was able to raise him from the dead. Where did he get this idea? God did not reveal it to him so how could he have possibly come to this conclusion? This generalization flies in the face of all reason, logic, and human experience. Abraham generalized this fact based upon the promises of God. To do this Abraham had to dismiss everything he knew by experience about death and sacrifices. This is just one of many cases where people of God employed generalization of the word of God to arrive at eternal truths. There are also many examples where people's interpretation of the word of God resulted in nothing but disaster.

I did sleep the last couple of nights, so my brain is clearer. How I slept is a different matter. (I'd explain that, but there are enough people on this site already sure I'm evil already, and would use that piece of information to prove their point.) I'm irritated though.

I'm irritated by two things:
1. What I did to sleep the last two nights makes me irritated with God because I consider sleep something up there with food and shelter. Things God ought to give his kids at regular intervals. "Daily bread," for lack of a better description of the basics.

2. This site.

I joined this site for two specific reasons -- you and Marc. You two could teach me stuff in ways I've never been taught before. And it was good stuff. It made the rest of what goes on here seem less annoying.

Well, Marc is mostly gone now. (And I would be surprised if I'm not guessing the reason right.) And you? I love you dearly, but you're so far past my understanding, I'm forever feeling like a 5th grader sitting in on a doctoral thesis class, (if such classes even exist.)

I tried. I've tried 5 times to get this, and still can't. It's not you. You deserve to teach teachers, and here you are trying to teach someone at skill levels below the students you usually have. (Possibly below their student levels. lol) Maybe 30 years from now, I'll get it, but not this year.

Which leaves me without any real purpose in coming to this site anymore. You and Marc really are teachers. The vast majority of the rest of the folks are used car salesmen trying to pitch their product when they don't even know the product. Worse yet, they don't care -- just as long as they keep pitching it and maybe convert others. To what? Clones?

So, I'm going to fade out. I'll still be here for people who can use help, just as long as they know I don't have all the answers, but can point them to the one who does.

I don't get this, nor do I get this site. Sorry about that.