How do you pay salaries to all the pastors?
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Acts20. Vs. 17 And from Miletus he(Paul) sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the ekklesia.
And Paul said unto them in vs. 33, I have coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel.
Vs.34. Yes, you yourselves know, that these hands have ministered to my necessities, and to them that were with me.
vs.35. I have showed you all things, how that so labouring, you(elders) ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how He said, it is more blessed to give than receive.
And Paul said unto them in vs. 33, I have coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel.
Vs.34. Yes, you yourselves know, that these hands have ministered to my necessities, and to them that were with me.
vs.35. I have showed you all things, how that so labouring, you(elders) ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how He said, it is more blessed to give than receive.
Not much information in your op. Please indicate what is specific in that post that I am to conclude. Several assumptions exist in it, but lacks certainty, actuality. Moving on...
"You all say" Does that include me!
"You all say that only one pastor out of many in an assembly should quit his job and receive a salary." I didn't say such a thing. Please connect me to the post where I said such a thing. Still, who did say it? Who? Who is "You all"? Bring them forward. Now.
"Paul said all the pastors should work." Please give the book, chapter, and verse from the bible. I don't know what verse you have in mind.
"If one quits his job, why shouldn't all quit their jobs." So now you don't believe they should work? They should all quit?
Yet, are you a JW? Mormon? Atheist? Agnostic? Save the Whales Activist? Green Peacer? Obamalite? Moabite? Hittite? Shih Tzu? Tree Hugger? Feminist? Anarchist? Exterminator? An English instructor at Berkley! Women's Libber? Anarchist? Catholic? SEIU Leader? I'll check your profile.
"You all say" Does that include me!
"You all say that only one pastor out of many in an assembly should quit his job and receive a salary." I didn't say such a thing. Please connect me to the post where I said such a thing. Still, who did say it? Who? Who is "You all"? Bring them forward. Now.
"Paul said all the pastors should work." Please give the book, chapter, and verse from the bible. I don't know what verse you have in mind.
"If one quits his job, why shouldn't all quit their jobs." So now you don't believe they should work? They should all quit?
Yet, are you a JW? Mormon? Atheist? Agnostic? Save the Whales Activist? Green Peacer? Obamalite? Moabite? Hittite? Shih Tzu? Tree Hugger? Feminist? Anarchist? Exterminator? An English instructor at Berkley! Women's Libber? Anarchist? Catholic? SEIU Leader? I'll check your profile.
So I asked the question that no one can answer....how do you pay all the pastors in a local body salaries.
Out of one side of your mouths you say 'the pastor deserves a salary.' Out the other corner of your deeply theological mouth you say ' you don't pay all the pastors.' Then someone else says 'I don't get it. What's your point?'
Why don't you pay all the pastors? Why do you pay only one pastor or 2?
Now ill shake your little kingdoms up so more. If everyone in the body is ministering, according to 1Cor12 and Romans12 and Ephesians4, which is in your bible, your bible, your bible, your bible, why does only one guy that quit his job, contrary to God's command in Acts 20, gets the salary?
Shouldnt everybody in the assembly get a salary if they all are ministering equally?
I know, I know...you just don't get it.
Everyone keeps telling me that I need to change the subject. Did your 4th grade teacher throw a subject out just because the whole class didn't get it?
Out of one side of your mouths you say 'the pastor deserves a salary.' Out the other corner of your deeply theological mouth you say ' you don't pay all the pastors.' Then someone else says 'I don't get it. What's your point?'
Why don't you pay all the pastors? Why do you pay only one pastor or 2?
Now ill shake your little kingdoms up so more. If everyone in the body is ministering, according to 1Cor12 and Romans12 and Ephesians4, which is in your bible, your bible, your bible, your bible, why does only one guy that quit his job, contrary to God's command in Acts 20, gets the salary?
Shouldnt everybody in the assembly get a salary if they all are ministering equally?
I know, I know...you just don't get it.
Everyone keeps telling me that I need to change the subject. Did your 4th grade teacher throw a subject out just because the whole class didn't get it?
E
Paul said he did not covet anyone's money. Far cry from saying no one should pay someone doings Gods work.
That does not support your foolish argument that we should not pay those people who are doing the work of God anything..
Nice try though, your rant is just that, a rant.
and they are getting old.
That does not support your foolish argument that we should not pay those people who are doing the work of God anything..
Nice try though, your rant is just that, a rant.
and they are getting old.
We don't pay our pastors anything. And we have 2. Not 20. Everyone that does anything around the church from leading to childcare to cleaning to sound or music all volunteers, because we are called to serve. The offering we collect goes to pay our buildings payment, electricity, water, the rare meal etc. All the leftover we give to local and international charitable organizations.
3
Yet is a man that admits he does not attend a local church but wants us to believe he knows what is happing in each and every church out there.
He is just an angry and foolish man that will not shut up his lies and evil rants untill he is ignored by all.
This is my last response to his stupid posting.
He is just an angry and foolish man that will not shut up his lies and evil rants untill he is ignored by all.
This is my last response to his stupid posting.
G
Why am I so blind? How blind am I?
Must have been typing my question as you were finishing and posting your post #22 with the Acts 20 reference. You posted just before I posted my question. So you are Assuming. Assuming you are. Stop Assuming, okay.
Paul is telling the elders from Ephesus to support the weak. He is not forbidding a one of them to receive wages for their work.
Did you know Paul received pay for his work as an apostle? Do you not know that? Oh, Paul told the elders to work, so they therefore can't receive pay for their work as elders. Baloney!
Why is your heart so dull and hard and your neck so stiff toward the truth?
Now go sell your toys and your idolatrous jacket and give the money to the poor.
Knucklehead.
Must have been typing my question as you were finishing and posting your post #22 with the Acts 20 reference. You posted just before I posted my question. So you are Assuming. Assuming you are. Stop Assuming, okay.
Paul is telling the elders from Ephesus to support the weak. He is not forbidding a one of them to receive wages for their work.
Did you know Paul received pay for his work as an apostle? Do you not know that? Oh, Paul told the elders to work, so they therefore can't receive pay for their work as elders. Baloney!
Why is your heart so dull and hard and your neck so stiff toward the truth?
Now go sell your toys and your idolatrous jacket and give the money to the poor.
Knucklehead.
I went to a night service once where they ordained 10 people out of congregation of 50. In that church, mostly what they did was serve on a committee. The clergyman didn't really share pulpit time.
Another church next door, that had about 100, ordained maybe 10 or so people, but they were active taking turns teaching in Bible studies and preaching at nursing homes and on community access TV.
I don't think you have to put them all on staff. I think they are a bit free with the 'pastor' thing in both of these churches, and should go with Biblical elders who meet the qualifications.
Elders who _rule well_ are worthy of double honor. If the church is calling anyone who teaches but doesn't lead the church a 'pastor', why do they have to pay them? The individual taught should share in all good things with him that teaches, but that can be done through one-on-one gifts and doesn't have to be some kind of line item on a church budget. And 'honor' doesn't have to be a set salary. People can give gifts. Where I go, everyone is a bi-vocational minister and no one is taking from the offering for their own living.
Another church next door, that had about 100, ordained maybe 10 or so people, but they were active taking turns teaching in Bible studies and preaching at nursing homes and on community access TV.
I don't think you have to put them all on staff. I think they are a bit free with the 'pastor' thing in both of these churches, and should go with Biblical elders who meet the qualifications.
Elders who _rule well_ are worthy of double honor. If the church is calling anyone who teaches but doesn't lead the church a 'pastor', why do they have to pay them? The individual taught should share in all good things with him that teaches, but that can be done through one-on-one gifts and doesn't have to be some kind of line item on a church budget. And 'honor' doesn't have to be a set salary. People can give gifts. Where I go, everyone is a bi-vocational minister and no one is taking from the offering for their own living.
I think your obsessed and sounds like you are an ex pastor and you didn't get your salary paid or had it cut.....you should add--->to the tenth degree--->to your broken record statement pal.......
Muzzle not the ox that treads out the corn...it is biblical to pay a pastor so they can give themselves completely to prayer and the ministry of the word.....your obsession is getting old and to be honest it is fruitless and seems to indicate mental problems!
Muzzle not the ox that treads out the corn...it is biblical to pay a pastor so they can give themselves completely to prayer and the ministry of the word.....your obsession is getting old and to be honest it is fruitless and seems to indicate mental problems!
And your obsession at rejecting the word on this is wearing me a bit also. The writers of the NT were obsessed as well.
Itstead of you railing on me, why do you not answer the scripture. It's for your benefit you know.
Jesus gave the word to the Pharisees and we all know how that turned out....don't we?
Paul was rejected by all the ekklesias in Asia for telling them what I am telling you which is what Paul told them. And around and around we go. It's not me you reject but God's word through Paul you disdain! That's precious!
Yours isn't mental problems, it's arrogance problems, not to mention a spirit of rebellion against Him! His word cannot be any clearer yet you won't touch it!
Itstead of you railing on me, why do you not answer the scripture. It's for your benefit you know.
Jesus gave the word to the Pharisees and we all know how that turned out....don't we?
Paul was rejected by all the ekklesias in Asia for telling them what I am telling you which is what Paul told them. And around and around we go. It's not me you reject but God's word through Paul you disdain! That's precious!
Yours isn't mental problems, it's arrogance problems, not to mention a spirit of rebellion against Him! His word cannot be any clearer yet you won't touch it!
My original post stands...you make a post about preachers getting paid at least once a week...The bible is clear... and at the end of the day with your continued rant there is nothing new to see..... A Pastor is to give himself to pray and the ministry of the word...Paul was very clear when he made the statement about ministering unto them SPIRITUAL things and how it was no big deal for him to reap carnal things (pay) at the result of his ministering......grow up and lose the vendetta against those who actually reap carnal things because they minister spiritual things!
Let them have their salary and let them have their esteem among mere mortals. They have gotten their reward all ready.
And if certain men believe in God and get no salary for speaking that which is written and freely given, verily, let their reward be stored up in heaven and may they have it when Jesus returns.
And if certain men believe in God and get no salary for speaking that which is written and freely given, verily, let their reward be stored up in heaven and may they have it when Jesus returns.
I have read Acts 20, where elders are explicitly mentioned once (17 From Miletus, Paul sent to Ephesus for the elders of the church.) and also referred to later, as Paul tells them that he is innocent of any of their shed blood, that they may never see him again, and to be good shepherds to the flock, and warns against wolves coming into their midst, etc. Paul also informs them that they are basically to earn their living as he has, by hard work in order to help the poor among them.
In 1 Peter 5, elders are explicitly mentioned twice (To the elders among you, I appeal as a fellow elder and a witness of Christ’s sufferings who also will share in the glory to be revealed: 2 Be shepherds of God’s flock that is under your care, watching over them—not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not pursuing dishonest gain, but eager to serve; 3 not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock. 4 And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that will never fade away.5 In the same way, you who are younger, submit yourselves to your elders.)
But I see no correlation to your OP on the point of what the percentage of elders to congregants is.
In 1 Peter 5, elders are explicitly mentioned twice (To the elders among you, I appeal as a fellow elder and a witness of Christ’s sufferings who also will share in the glory to be revealed: 2 Be shepherds of God’s flock that is under your care, watching over them—not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not pursuing dishonest gain, but eager to serve; 3 not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock. 4 And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that will never fade away.5 In the same way, you who are younger, submit yourselves to your elders.)
But I see no correlation to your OP on the point of what the percentage of elders to congregants is.
K
To the Galatians, Paul wrote, “One who is taught the word must share all good things with the one who teaches” (Gal. 6:6). In keeping with that principle, Paul received material support from the church in Philippi.
Philipians 4:14-20
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Yet it was good of you to share in my troubles. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Moreover, as you Philippians know, in the early days of your acquaintance with the gospel, when I set out from Macedonia, not one church shared with me in the matter of giving and receiving, except you only; [SUP]16 [/SUP]for even when I was in Thessalonica, you sent me aid more than once when I was in need. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Not that I desire your gifts; what I desire is that more be credited to your account. [SUP]18 [/SUP]I have received full payment and have more than enough. I am amply supplied, now that I have received from Epaphroditus the gifts you sent. They are a fragrant offering, an acceptable sacrifice, pleasing to God. [SUP]19 [/SUP]And my God will meet all your needs according to the riches of his glory in Christ Jesus.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]To our God and Father be glory for ever and ever. Amen
Kefa
Philipians 4:14-20
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Yet it was good of you to share in my troubles. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Moreover, as you Philippians know, in the early days of your acquaintance with the gospel, when I set out from Macedonia, not one church shared with me in the matter of giving and receiving, except you only; [SUP]16 [/SUP]for even when I was in Thessalonica, you sent me aid more than once when I was in need. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Not that I desire your gifts; what I desire is that more be credited to your account. [SUP]18 [/SUP]I have received full payment and have more than enough. I am amply supplied, now that I have received from Epaphroditus the gifts you sent. They are a fragrant offering, an acceptable sacrifice, pleasing to God. [SUP]19 [/SUP]And my God will meet all your needs according to the riches of his glory in Christ Jesus.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]To our God and Father be glory for ever and ever. Amen
Kefa
I would be comfortable passing an opinion on that on a case-by-case basis because I wholeheartedly believe there are many pastors out there not doing right. I have heard them preach so it isn't taking anyone else's word for what is going on.
And the woman you defended, it was rizpah, and she thought I was a real heathen because I didn't have a church home. I would like to be able to retrieve the conversation but since it was in the actual chat room that all disappears. Around 20 people were in there and watched as she and I typed. I started out with a polite greeting and it went right downhill like a snowball headed for hades from there when she realized who I was married to and that he didn't go to any church. She literally said more than once to me , "get thee behind me Satan." Yes, you did defend someone who called someone satan, and when I pm'd you about it it you said something like 'she didn't mean it.' And you did not investigate any further to find out the whole story. That was way back before I got bold enough to say what I think even when it makes waves!
If a person was thinking about attending a church where that attitude prevailed, do you think they would go? Not likely.
Not discussing scripture at all let alone controversial scripture!
And we ask why there is so much discord in the - supposed to be - Body of Christ!
And the woman you defended, it was rizpah, and she thought I was a real heathen because I didn't have a church home. I would like to be able to retrieve the conversation but since it was in the actual chat room that all disappears. Around 20 people were in there and watched as she and I typed. I started out with a polite greeting and it went right downhill like a snowball headed for hades from there when she realized who I was married to and that he didn't go to any church. She literally said more than once to me , "get thee behind me Satan." Yes, you did defend someone who called someone satan, and when I pm'd you about it it you said something like 'she didn't mean it.' And you did not investigate any further to find out the whole story. That was way back before I got bold enough to say what I think even when it makes waves!
If a person was thinking about attending a church where that attitude prevailed, do you think they would go? Not likely.
Not discussing scripture at all let alone controversial scripture!
And we ask why there is so much discord in the - supposed to be - Body of Christ!
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sorry but we are not interested unto money or anything that we cannot accommodate
unto after life :smoke:
And if anyone here are trying to used our name by soliciting or anything that
" moneys involved " as they say
Please let us know.
Thank you very much my breathrens :smoke: and my fellows :happy:
unto after life :smoke:
And if anyone here are trying to used our name by soliciting or anything that
" moneys involved " as they say
Please let us know.
Thank you very much my breathrens :smoke: and my fellows :happy: