how is one a child of God?

[WomanLovesTX]

What does this verse mean?
Mat 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

Could it mean....
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
Rom 14:18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
Rom 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.

Does our Heavenly Father proudly claim us when we are behaving peacefully together? Are we children of darkness when we are snapping and pointing fingers at each other?

 

[feedm3]

What does this verse mean?
Mat 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

Could it mean....
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
Rom 14:18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
Rom 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.

Does our Heavenly Father proudly claim us when we are behaving peacefully together? Are we children of darkness when we are snapping and pointing fingers at each other?

I dont know but I like your name

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Dude we had the same discussion on the other thread, you ran away said you didn't have time to or patience to answer your arguments. Why are you making them again? Same answer to you:
What about Acts ch 8:1-25??

Dude that was that thread, this is another thread. I am exposing a mistruth, and letting people decide what they want to believe.

i have answered you questions 100 times over, whether you believe it or not is not my problem.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG is right but you refuse to hear him. You think baptise always means with water by men. That is not the case but your misunderstanding. You can pray to God and ask for Wisdom or not and stay in error.

The bible says we are born of God, not of blood or our wills. This is part of the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

We don't cause God to act by any of our works. We are not saved by what we do or what other men do to us, no matter how good the intentions are. We are saved by God Himself for His specific Purpose.

I like good intentions but lets not pretend the Power of God and His Grace and Salvation belong to men...

Amen brother. why people want to limit the power of God, the ability of God, and the work of God is beyond me

 

[feedm3]

Dude that was that thread, this is another thread. I am exposing a mistruth, and letting people decide what they want to believe.

i have answered you questions 100 times over, whether you believe it or not is not my problem.

it was on another thread, 1 day ago, and we were talking about the exact same subject, I you said "I do not have the time or the patience to answer this", altghough you are the one making the arguments.

Of course I will not believe you, you dont even answer the arguemnts you make. You never answered my question concerning acts 8, I am sure your googling it until you find something you feel wont be condraticve to what you've already stated, having a hard time huh? I wait till you find an answer and decide to comment bye

 

[feedm3]

God showed Peter that the HE had chose the Gentiles worthy of salvation, this is the purpose of this vision:
Acts 10:11: And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
Acts 10:12: Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
Acts 10:13: And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
Acts 10:14: But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
Acts 10:15: And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

This was God setting the stage of the coming events in which the Gentiles would receive the baptism of HS showing Peter God chose them worthy of salvation:
verse 37-43 Peter preaches the gospel to the Gentiles and look what happened:
Acts 10:44: ¶While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Acts 10:45: And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 10:46: For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Acts 10:47: Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Acts 10:48: And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

They were astonished because the Holy Spirit fell on Gentiles, without the laying on of hands in Acts 8. This showed God chose the gentiles worthy of salvtion. Peter said "revcieved the Holy Spirit AS WELL AS We.
Not like the Samaritan by the laying of hands in Acts 8, not like those in Acts 19 by the laying of hands by Paul, BUT JUST LIKE THE APOSTLES DID ON PENTECOST AS CHRIST PROMISED THEM. HE FELL ON THEM, NO LAYING ON OF HANDS
THIS IS THE BAPTISM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, PETER TELLS US THIS IN THE SAME CONTEXT:
As Peter recounts what happened to the Gentiles to the other Jews that were not there in chapter 11:1-14, Notice what he says this was:
Acts 11:13: And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
Acts 11:14: Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
Acts 11:15: And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Acts 11:16: Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

Showing what this is, it is the baptism of the HS. It is not the same as the laying on of hands, nor the same as water baptism, It does not happen to us when we believe, it is not promised to us. Just as it did not happen to the Samaritans in Acts 8. It is only for the Apostles in Acts 2, and the Gentiles in Acts 10, not every believer is promised this. Read Jn 14, 16 and Acts 1, and 2, the promise was only to the Apostles.

Paul said at the time he wrote EPh, there is only one baptism 4:4-5. Which is it? The baptism of the HS which pupropse has been fulfilled, or is the baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus that the Lord commanded all nations to be baptized with(Matt 28:18-f.)? The same that the Jews in Acts 2, the Samaritans in Acts 8, and those under Johns baptism in Acts 19 were baptized into? Gal 3:27, Rom 6:3 cannot be the baptism of HS because it has no purpose for them, it was not promised to every believer.

IF it still falls on every believer, then why not those of Acts 8, and 19? Water baptism is the the baptism in the name of the Jesus, it is not a work of man, and who you says that is blaspheming the HS because he commanded it.

 

[Grandpa]

No it was given to men Tit 2:11, it has appeared to all through the power of the gospel - Rom 1:16. when we reject that power and change it to our own views, then it our own fault with that power has no effect on us.

We are saved by God's grace, and our adherence to it. Otherwise it is in vain - I Cor 6:1.

Titus was a good one, and exactly what I was trying to say. Thanks for bringing it to mind.

Titus 3:4-7

4But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

I thank the Lord Jesus that He draws us to Him, continually.

 

[feedm3]

Titus was a good one, and exactly what I was trying to say. Thanks for bringing it to mind.

Titus 3:4-7

4But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

I thank the Lord Jesus that He draws us to Him, continually.

Yes I thank him as well: Good passage
Titus 3:4-7

4But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

When we are baptized according to the command of the word, it is not our "work of righteousness" for we could not do this on our own. But when we do it in adherence to the command of God, we are washed to regeneration. If we choose to reject HIS mercy, in that we can be washed and made clean, then we are not washed.
the point of this passage is that our obedience to his mercy, is not because we are righteous, but because he is righteousness in the fact we can obtain mercy by obeying him, becauase that shows we love him.

It is the same message Paul was preaching in Eph 2.

 

[feedm3]

The only way we receive the Hs spirit now, is to be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus FOR the remission of our sins. Remission does not come before as Peter showed in Acts 2.

The Great question:
Acts 2:37: ¶Now when they heard this(the gospel the power of salvation Rom 1:16), they were pricked in their heart(Godly sorrow II Cor 7), and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?("Godly sorrow leads to repentance II COr 7")

The Great remedy through Jesus Christ our Lord according to God's grace in sending Him here to die even for those who crucified HIm:
Acts 2:38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

His answer to those who had Godly sorrow because of the Word of God. Repent and be bapitzed (why?) FOR (the reason) the remmission of your sins (and then the effect) ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Titus was a good one, and exactly what I was trying to say. Thanks for bringing it to mind.

Titus 3:4-7

4But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

I thank the Lord Jesus that He draws us to Him, continually.

Amen.

It is not by works of righteousness (good deeds) which we have done (including water baptism) But according to his mercy (undeserved) he saved us (past tense) by the washing (baptism of) and renewing (new birth) of the Holy SPirit.

That beign justified (declared innocent of All crimes) by his grace (underserved favor) we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life (the basis for our faith)

No mention of water baptism there!

We can not replace HS baptism with water. That is the same as saying man does the work of God, which Jesus himself said was blasphemy against his spirit.

 

[feedm3]

No spirit either, in fact no baptism is mentioned cant be talking about either one I guess

 

[feedm3]

It is not by works of righteousness (good deeds) which we have done (including water baptism) But according to his mercy (undeserved) he saved us (past tense) by the washing (baptism of) and renewing (new birth) of the Holy SPirit.

So water baptism is merely "a good deed", though Peter commanded (imperative)? Why did Peter tell the Jews in acts 2 to repent and do a "good deed" when they wanted to know what they should do to be saved.
How come when Philip preached Christ to the Eunuch in Acts 8, the Eunuch came to the conclusion he needed to "do a good deed"?
How does a "good deed" wash away your sins - Acts 22:16
Why does Peter tell us in I Pet 3:21 that "good deeds" (baptism as you say) doth also now save us?

That begin justified (declared innocent of All crimes) by his grace (underserved favor) we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life (the basis for our faith)

What about the new crime of teaching people that baptism is a work of man? that is a sin.
Who commanded baptism? was it a man? Can you tell me why how anything in the Bible that is commanded from God is a work of man?

No mention of water baptism there!

Wow I did not expect you to fall to that novice method of interpretation. So what is not explicitly stated in the passage cannot be connected to any other meanings?
So then we are saved by hope. NO faith mentioned in that passage. So i guess every one including atheist who hope for something is saved. Wow.
Romans 8:24: For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Look no mention of faith, repentance, baptism, even just belief in God. Only hope.

We can not replace HS baptism with water. That is the same as saying man does the work of God, which Jesus himself said was blasphemy against his spirit.

What do you mean "replace HS baptism", where is that in the passage? How can we replace something that is not there.?In fact this passage cannot mean HS baptism according to your method of interpretation because it is not explicitly stated. So you refuted yourself with that one. This is too easy

 

[resurrection33]

Joel Osteen is the largest church in America today. If a person attends his church or simply listens to one of his messages. They are a child of God, everybody is a child of God. All you have to do is think positive. Is that true or false? I believe Not. What do y'all say?

We are all children of the Lord when we are trying to do his will.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We are all children of the Lord when we are trying to do his will.

what? if this is true. we don't need christ. we can be his children just by obeying him, Christ died in vein

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So water baptism is merely "a good deed", though Peter commanded (imperative)? Why did Peter tell the Jews in acts 2 to repent and do a "good deed" when they wanted to know what they should do to be saved.

God commanded us to assemble ourselves together. To obey his commands. To love him and our neighbor. To be a light in the world. To feed the poor. To do many things. Do any of those works save us? Why is baptism so special? Baptism is merely OBEYING A COMMAND OF GOD IS IT NOT? I AM NOT TELLING ANYONE NOT TO GET BAPTIZED. I am telling them to rely on the baptism of the spirit to save you, then do as God commanded and do the rest. including being baptized in water


Titus 3: 5 says it is not our works or good deeds, it is the work of the HS which washes us.

make your choice, be washed of men in water baptism, or washed of God in spirit baptism. the choice is yours.

 

[feedm3]

what? if this is true. we don't need christ. we can be his children just by obeying him, Christ died in vein

This statement does not even make sense man. If we can be his children just by obeying him, he died in vain, and we don't need him?

But we can be his children if we only believe he exists? isnt that the same belief the devils have? No wait, you said before, thats not true faith, true faith is one who will do works becuase he is saved, correct? So then, must a saved person obey?

 

[resurrection33]

what? if this is true. we don't need christ. we can be his children just by obeying him, Christ died in vein

Jesus, God in flesh, is our Creator. He showed us the path to happiness. He died to save us from the sins we have committed.

 

[feedm3]

God commanded us to assemble ourselves together. To obey his commands. To love him and our neighbor. To be a light in the world. To feed the poor. To do many things.

So what if we dont do these things? "you were never saved" as you say. If you beleive that, you would think you would be teaching others they better be obeying God or they were never saved to begin with. So why if this is what you beleve tell people that obediecne does not save, yet without it you are not saved?

Do

any of those works save us? Why is baptism so special? Baptism is merely OBEYING A COMMAND OF GOD IS IT NOT? I AM NOT TELLING ANYONE NOT TO GET BAPTIZED. I am telling them to rely on the baptism of the spirit to save you, then do as God commanded and do the rest. including being baptized in water

You teach baptism is a work of man, which is sinful in itself. You teach it is an OT ritual, again a sin, considering the NT tells us to do it, and tells us why we do it, which has nothing to do with the OT washings.
You also believe it is a work, rather than simply obeying a command - another twisted way to look at your duty as a Christian to obey God's word.
You may not teach anyone NOT to get baptized, but you turn it into a work of man, though man did not command it, God did through the HS through the Apostles. How can it be a work of man?
Was the laying on of hands a work of man, it was man that layed hands on people - Acts 8, 19?
According to your logic that must also be a work of man.
Why does the Spirit command us to be involved in a work of man?
Peter also tells us not to rely on the canal things baptism does, like cleans the flesh, but to rely on what the spirit does, a good conscience knowing we have obeyed God and been made clean. Not the dirt from the flesh, but the removal of sin from the soul. But you twisted that passage to try and suggest Peter also thinks baptism is only a washing of the flesh, when you said "see it's clearly not water baptism because Peter said not the washing away of the filth of the flesh" which implies Peter thinks the same as you, and baptism is merely a washing of the body - dont find that sinful? I know you don't believe that, it's just how far youll go to keep the truth from hindering your belief, same as the Pharisees. Like I said, your right you have no fear of God. I am scared for you God knows the motives of our heart.

Titus 3: 5 says it is not our works or good deeds, it is the work of the HS which washes us.

Yea of course, it is the Hs that washes us through our obedience to His word.

make your choice, be washed of men in water baptism, or washed of God in spirit baptism. the choice is yours.

Why did God tell us to be baptized if it is only a washing by men? You cant be washed by the spirit until you learn to obey God, your still not washed, you don't even understand the baptism of the HS that is why you cant answer any questions concerning it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So what if we dont do these things? "you were never saved" as you say. If you beleive that, you would think you would be teaching others they better be obeying God or they were never saved to begin with. So why if this is what you beleve tell people that obediecne does not save, yet without it you are not saved?

If you do non of them, then what Does james say about you? Your faith is dead, why? Because if your faith was real (had substance) you would do works.

It is not me that said they are not saved, It is james. why? because they had no works? no, because they HAD NO FAITH.

Do You teach baptism is a work of man, which is sinful in itself. You teach it is an OT ritual, again a sin, considering the NT tells us to do it, and tells us why we do it, which has nothing to do with the OT washings.

No, I teach baptism in water is a command of God. like circumcision and other OT ritual were commanded by God.

God is the one who claimed we are not baptized (washed) by the hand of men but by the hand of God.

col 2: 11 - 12 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

My pastor did not raise Christ from the dead. My pastor did not wash my sin of the flesh so I could be cleansed by immersing me in water, God did. I am washed (my sins are washed away) by his hands through my faith. not by some man immersing me in water.

 

[feedm3]

If you do non of them, then what Does james say about you? Your faith is dead, why? Because if your faith was real (had substance) you would do works.

It is not me that said they are not saved, It is james. why? because they had no works? no, because they HAD NO FAITH.



No, I teach baptism in water is a command of God. like circumcision and other OT ritual were commanded by God.

God is the one who claimed we are not baptized (washed) by the hand of men but by the hand of God.

col 2: 11 - 12 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

My pastor did not raise Christ from the dead. My pastor did not wash my sin of the flesh so I could be cleansed by immersing me in water, God did. I am washed (my sins are washed away) by his hands through my faith. not by some man immersing me in water.

Why do you keep linking baptism and the effects of baptism to "a pastor"? Thats where you fail in understanding baptism.

Look this obviously will never go anywhere with you. You want to believe what you want no matter the absurd conclusions and implications you are forced to accept.

So why do we just do this right? I am not sure where you live, but I am willing to come there a publicly debate you on this subject. You can take the affirmative or the negative, and since I am challenging you. You can find the congregation to host this, if not I can. We can feed it live to the internet, and I think it could be very beneficial to us both.
I have brethren with all the equipment to make the recoding possible. All we have to do, if pick a place to have it, set a date, start preparing, and debate this subject for ourselves and the people who will come to hear it.
I will come to you unless you are out of the country, and I will let you make the majority of decisions like, where, when, and what the wording of the subject being debated. I think this could be a good thing if you are interested. If not, that's fine to, some don't believe in Debating God's word, I understand that view as well.