How To Be Un-Saved

[DJ2]

If a Born-Again Christian for any reason lost his faith in Jesus Christ as Lord of Heaven and Earth and pledged his alliance to something or someone else is not lost the common-sense, logical reality is that God, the Father would have to deny the very words of Jesus about the need for faith in the life of his followers. The Christian who rejects his pledge (1st Tim. 5:12) does not have the faith needed to run the race (Acts 20:23-24), he does not have the oil in his lamp (Matt. 25:1-13) or the proper wedding garment (Matt. 22:11-13) for that glorious day.

To accept that a person is saved without having faith in Jesus Christ when he dies, we would have to do the following:

Deny the need to put our hope in the living God. (1st Tim. 4:10)
Deny the words of Paul, "Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved" (Acts 16:31)
Deny the confidence in what we hope (Hebrews 11:1)
Deny that without faith it is impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6)
Deny that those who hope in the Lord will renew their strength (Isaiah 40:31)
Deny that whoever believes in Him is not condemned (John 3:18)
Deny the need to stop doubting and believe (John 20:27)
Deny that by believing you may have life in His name (John 20:31)
Deny the command to repent and believe the good news (Mark 1:15)
Deny that by believing in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, we will be saved (Romans 10:9)
Deny the incomparably great power for us who believe (Eph. 1:19)
Deny that it is the one who overcomes the world is the one that believes Jesus is the Son of God (1st John 5:5)
Deny that John wrote that those who believe in the name of the Son of God has eternal life. (1st John 5:13)
Deny that by living by faith we are crucified with Christ (Gal. 2:20)
Deny that we must believe and not doubt (James 1:6)
Deny that we have the right because of faith to become children of God (John 1:12)
Deny that God so loved the world that whoever believes in Him shall not perish (John 3:16)
Deny that whoever rejects the Son will not see life (John 3:36)
Deny that whoever believes and is baptized will be saved (Mark 16:16)
Deny that whoever believes will never go hungry (John 6:35)
Deny that if we believe we will see the glory of God (John 11:40)
Deny that the righteous will live by faith (Romans 1:17)
Deny that Christ dwells in our hearts through faith (Eph. 3:17)
Deny that we live by faith and not sight (2nd Cor. 5:7)
Deny that we stand firm by our faith (2nd Cor. 1:24)
Deny the need for faith to fight the good fight (2nd Tim. 4:7)
Deny the power to turn from the power of Satan by faith (Acts 26:18)
Deny the power of the shield of faith (Eph. 6:16)
Deny that Jesus is the pioneer and perfecter of our faith (Hebrews 12:2)
Deny that through faith we are raised with Him from the dead (Col. 2:12)
Deny that we are rooted with Him by faith (Col. 2:7)
Deny the sanctification by faith (2nd Thes. 2:13)
Deny the mystery of faith with a clear conscience (1st Tim. 3:9)
Deny the condemnation of those who set aside their previous pledge (1st Tim. 5:12)
Deny the need to contend earnestly for the faith (Jude 1:3)
Deny the warning that our names can be blotted out of the Book of Life (Rev.3:5)

To say that a person can die without believing in Jesus as Lord and still be saved by the one who he denies is to deny the gospel itself.

 

[OneFaith]

“But IF you sin willfully there no longer remains a sacrifice for your sins.”

 

[dcontroversal]

This was on my Disqus this morning by CS Berean, and it was so good, I thought I'd share it here.


If a Born-Again Christian willingly chooses to lose their salvation, after receiving Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior and repenting of their sin (Acts 2:38, 16:31; Rom 10:9-10), the common-sense, logical reality is that God, the Father, would have to ask Jesus, God the Son, to give back His gift of love to Him and fail to honor His promise to never cast them out (Jn 6:37) and ask God, the Holy Spirit to disobey the Father's commands and permanently withdraw His presence. The person would have to un-drink the water of eternal life given by Jesus and so that they will be thirsty again (Jn 4:14).

Jesus would have to do the following:

Quit as their defense attorney (1 Jn 2:1)
No longer protect or keep them safe (Jn 17:9-12)
Divorce them (Rev 19:7)
Rescind their citizenship of Heaven (Jn 15:16; Eph 2:12-13,19)
Put them back into the world (Jn 17:16)
Blot out their names from the book of life (Rev 3:5)
Allow death and life, angels and rulers, things present and things to come, powers, height, and depth, and anything else in all creation, to separate them from the love of God found in Him (Rom 8:38-39)
No longer be their advocate before the Father (1 John 2:1)
Make them an un-new creation (2 Cor 5:17);
Make them un-near to Him (Eph 2:12-13,19)
Un-bury them and un-baptize them so that they will no longer walk in newness of life(Rom 6:4)
Un-crucify their old nature (Gal 2:20)
Un-adopt them (Rom 8:23)
Un-circumcise them (Col 2:11)
Un-complete them (Col 2:9-10)
Un-author their faith (Heb 12:2)
Un-finish their faith (Heb 12:2)
Un-hold them from the firm grasp of His hand (John 10:28-29)
Un-buy and refund the payment He made by His blood
Un-predestine them so they can no longer be conformed to His image
Un-sanctify them (John 17:17; Heb 10:14)
Un-deliver them from the domain of darkness (Col 1:13)
Un-transfer them out of His kingdom, where they were once conditionally sanctified daily (Rom 8:28-31; Eph 1:11)
Un-call them (Rom 8:30,9:24,; 1 Cor 1:2,9; Gal 5:13; Eph 1:18)
Un-justify them (Rom 3:24,28,5:9,10:10; 1 Cor 6:11; Titus 3:7)
Un-glorify them (Rom 8:25, 28-31)
Un-cancel all their spiritual debts (Col 2:13-14)
Un-seal them (2 Cor 1:22, 5:5; Eph 1:13, 4:30)
Un-wash them (Tutus 3:5)
Un-forgive them of all their sins (1 Cor 6:11)
Un-forget their sins (Heb 10:17)
Un-consider them holy (Eph 1:4)
Un-consider them blameless in His sight (Eph 1:4, 2:8; Rom 8:9,11:6)
Un-buy them (1 Cor: 6:19-20, 7:23-24)
Un-born them (1 Jn 2:29, 3:9, 4:7, 5:1,4,18)
Move out from living within them as the new Holy of Holies (1 John 2:19, 3:6,9; Rom 8:9)
Revoke their position of no longer living in His new nature (Rom 8:9)
Rescind and fail to honor His promise to never leave and forsake them (Heb 13:5)
Go back on and fail to honor His promise to never cast them out (Jn 6:37).
God, the Holy Spirit, who was given as a guarantee (2 Cor 5:5) would have to do the following:
Cut them out of His Will as co-heirs with Jesus (Rom 8:17).
Un-fill them (becoming un-Born-Again) (Col 2:9-10);
Un-anoint them (1 John 2:27)
Stop and undo His good work begun in them (Phil 1:6, 2:13)
Fail to honor His promise to keep them from stumbling until the end when Jesus comes again (1 Cor 1:8; Jude 1:24-25).

To say that an individual could be separated from the love of God or remove themselves from His firm grasp, and His promise to NEVER leave them, after He bought and paid for them, and they are His possession, as well as His dwelling place, the Holy of Holies, is at the very least, illogical and intellectually incongruous.

When God makes a promise, He NEVER reneges on, or breaks, His word.

Just saying...

Amen....copy this over to my works thread.....

 

[NoNameMcgee]

“But IF you sin willfully there no longer remains a sacrifice for your sins.”

oh nooooo

you dont understand hebrews 10?



that whole chapter is telling the Jews after they have knowledge of Christ to stop giving sacrifice for their sin


*sigh*

 

[NoNameMcgee]

“But IF you sin willfully there no longer remains a sacrifice for your sins.”

__________________

Hebrews 10
10 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

21 And having an high priest over the house of God;

22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised

24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,


_____________

if you can see the context clearly

this isnt about saved believers losing salvation...

it instruction to the Jews ......

 

[so-jesus-e-deus]

To be not saved isn't need anything. Without Jesus, all already are condemned.

 

[Grandpa]

Not quite sure, why, Roger, but your response made me laugh so hard I could hardly stop . . .

Probably because it was a very good-natured response - probably because you hit on the deeper issue beyond beliefs - do I really care enough to pray? and probably partly because I don't think you know how to answer the question of my brother-in-law

The answer is simple enough.

He thought he was saved by all the things he does that are good.

Just like you.

After he got tired of keeping himself saved it was easier to say he didn't believe rather than say he couldn't do it.



What a person can stop believing in is theories. Like the theory evolution. The theory of global warming. You can believe in those and then find compelling evidence to change your mind.

If God was only a theory then stopping belief in Him is possible.

When God becomes Real to a person it is not possible to stop believing.

 

[LightLoveHope]

By the way, It was legalism which took me down. All the CRAP i heard growing up. And how if we do not live up to some standard, we must not be saved. Or if you just trusted God, these bad things would not be happening to you (my wife kicked me out and moved her BF in) and all these things, it was all my fault because I did not have enough faith or maybe I was not saved. OrI had some sin in my life which was causing this

You also now understand my friend my passion and fight against legalism you have witnessed in CC since you have been here, that is what fuels me, I want to make sure no one else suffers what I did.

I understand the anger felt by the member above, but unfortunately it is also true.

The people of God are called to not live in sin.

If one believes this is "crap" one is not saved.

Living in love guarantees only one thing, one is loving out to others.
Jesus says it guarantees persecution, rejection, anger and hatred from some,
but from Jesus, love, encouragement, direction, purpose, power.

Jesus calls us to serve and to carry the pain of others, to bare with their sins,
forgive them and love them despite their lost behavior.

And when bad things happen, we are partly to blame, because there are things
we could do differently, but walking with Jesus, means the same things will
happen but He will bring us through in Him.

This is what Jesus says about those who find Him

This will result in your being witnesses to them.
But make up your mind not to worry beforehand how you will defend yourselves.
For I will give you words and wisdom that none of your adversaries will be able to resist or contradict.
You will be betrayed even by parents, brothers, relatives and friends, and they will put some of you to death.
All men will hate you because of me.
But not a hair of your head will perish.
By standing firm you will gain life.
Luke 21:13-19

I read nothing about anyone being nice to you or things going well.
It is more fool the believer who thinks following Jesus is a charmed life.
It is truly full of joy and victory, being set free and gaining that which
no one can snatch out of ones hand, but not a safe protected existence.

Anyone who bought into a safe existence, got disappointed and now blames
the gospel for their hurt and pain, never knew what it was to walk with Jesus
in the first place.

Dying to self and living to Christ is not without sacrifice and pain, but equally
the greatest gain you can ever have, Praise the Lord.

 

[LightLoveHope]

This was on my Disqus this morning by CS Berean, and it was so good, I thought I'd share it here.

If a Born-Again Christian willingly chooses to lose their salvation, after receiving Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior and repenting of their sin (Acts 2:38, 16:31; Rom 10:9-10), the common-sense, logical reality is that God, the Father, would have to ask Jesus, God the Son, to give back His gift of love to Him and fail to honor His promise to never cast them out (Jn 6:37) and ask God, the Holy Spirit to disobey the Father's commands and permanently withdraw His presence. The person would have to un-drink the water of eternal life given by Jesus and so that they will be thirsty again (Jn 4:14).


Jesus would have to do the following:
.......

This whole discourse is founded on one idea, the people of God do not freely
love the living God, walk and dwell in Him and through Him.

The whole communion with the Lord, doing His will is about choice and flows
from who we are.

So if we are no longer loving, no longer in communion but in rebellion against
love and the Lord, we will be thrown out.

If anyone does not understand this, they do not know love and the principles
of the Kingdom of Heaven.

What is the sign of the people of God? How they love one another.

Now if one is not loving one another one does not know God.

Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.
Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.
This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him.
1 John 4:7-9

Over the past few days it is obvious some believe they know God, yet call
this description of oneness and communion, "sugary coated words"
except they show their hard betrayed heart, where Gods word does not
penetrate and cynicism rules.

If love ruled within, one would agree with Jesus and know that the pure in
heart see God.

 

[LightLoveHope]

To say that a person can die without believing in Jesus as Lord and still be saved by the one who he denies is to deny the gospel itself.

This is what I describe as a Zombie faith, God will change a rebellious sinner who hates Him
into a loving, caring, giving person against their will, so creating a Zombie, who does not
sing "Worthy is the lamb" out of choice but being forced into it.

It is literally this absurd an idea, and against the very principles and Spirit of Jesus.

 

[DJ2]

oh nooooo

you dont understand hebrews 10?



that whole chapter is telling the Jews after they have knowledge of Christ to stop giving sacrifice for their sin


*sigh*

There is nothing in the "context" to imply such a thing. Onefaith is pointing out the cause (if you) and the response (no longer). The cause and response refer to the "after we have received the knowledge of the truth". The writer is saying that in the possible event of apostasy the person who abandons their faith has abandoned the only sacrifice for sins.

This verse is not speaking of the ending of animal sacrifices, its a warning to not stray from the truth.

 

[LightLoveHope]

I have a brother-in-law who made a clear confession of Christ, believed in Him, and his joy and peace were evident, and his life changed.

It was a gradual shift, influence from wrong places, etc. -- now he is a clear agnostic, atheist, etc. - all mixed up - no profession or hint of believing or wanting to believe in Christ.

For me to say he is a believer going to heaven -- ??? He does not believe . . .
For me to say he was not ever a believer?? He sure seemed like one who made a real change - of heart and of action - of course I realize God, not man is the judge. But to say he could not have been a believer is passing judgment: something that only God can do.

This speaks so much of the seed and the sower, the plant springing up, and either
the roots could not go down deep enough to reach deeply into their heart or the
weeds of worries of life smothered the word and loves effectiveness within.

Jesus gave the parable so that we might understand what is happening and how
it is reaching the end and keeping the faith that is the eternal significance of
it all. When parables match life, I go amen, the Lord knows so well what is going
to happen.

What I have seen is people not know how to structure their lives, come to Christ,
find a firm foundation, and then once established think it is them who has established
themselves and left the Lord, and try and live separately from Him.

It is being in the vine, benefiting from His life, and love and then thinking the source
does not matter it is inherent in life itself. Jesus's prediction is that these people will
whither and fade and become useless, without life within. And I have met people like
this who bloomed in the Lord, but then hurt and pain caused them to walk away.

 

[Ralph-]

I've tried walking away numerous times, He just keeps wooing me back.

...and so that must happen for everybody with no exceptions.

I hope that's not what you're saying.

 

[preacher4truth]

The answer is simple enough.

He thought he was saved by all the things he does that are good.

Just like you.

After he got tired of keeping himself saved it was easier to say he didn't believe rather than say he couldn't do it.



What a person can stop believing in is theories. Like the theory evolution. The theory of global warming. You can believe in those and then find compelling evidence to change your mind.

If God was only a theory then stopping belief in Him is possible.

When God becomes Real to a person it is not possible to stop believing.

Churches and individuals would do themselves and the Kingdom a great service if they stopped believing that some appeared saved initially, therefore pronouncing them as such.

 

[LightLoveHope]

Churches and individuals would do themselves and the Kingdom a great service if they stopped believing that some appeared saved initially, therefore pronouncing them as such.

I am confused. Becoming saved is simple, you have faith in Christ like the thief on the cross,
except saying someone has come to faith ie saved should not be said until what exactly has
happened?

I have been told by the same people, it is so easy to be saved, just believe, and the next
breadth, it has not happened if this long list of beliefs are held or not accepted.

It is why talking about being saved is so miss-leading as opposed to walking with Jesus.

"These have come so that your faith--of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire--may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed."
1 Peter 1:7

Peter is acknowledging faith can be proved false in some and genuine in others.
So what is better? To preach security in salvation or learning to walk in Jesus's ways?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I also wonder if some of them have a seared conscience.

​I think it comes from indoctrination, They are indoctrinated into their church doctrine, and have such faith in their leaders they do not think they can be wrong,.

 

[mailmandan]

“But IF you sin willfully there no longer remains a sacrifice for your sins.”

In Hebrews 10:26, To "sin willfully" in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is CONTINUOUS ACTION - A MATTER OF PRACTICE. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows a CONTINUOUS ACTION.

*The unrighteous practice sin (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are born of God (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9).

 

[Speak2Me]

Hebrews 10
10 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

21 And having an high priest over the house of God;

22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised

24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,


_____________

if you can see the context clearly

this isnt about saved believers losing salvation...

it instruction to the Jews ......

I believe you saw the text clearly, all right.

That's why you stopped at V26.

26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.29How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”[SUP]d[/SUP] and again, “The Lord will judge his people.”[SUP]e[/SUP]31It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

This is written to saved Jews, warning them about going back to the Law.

NO EPISTLE is written to sinners.

22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised)
Saved Hebrews
24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
Us - The body of Christ
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
Can't forsake something you never did. Therefore, saved Hebrews
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Received -

2983. lambanó

Strong's Concordance

lambanó: to take, receive
Original Word: λαμβάνω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: lambanó
Phonetic Spelling: (lam-ban'-o)
Short Definition: I receive, take
Definition: (a) I receive, get, (b) I take, lay hold of.HELPS Word-studies
2983 lambánō (from the primitive root, lab-, meaning "actively lay hold of to take or receive," see NAS dictionary) – properly, to lay hold by aggressively (actively) accepting what is available (offered). 2983 /lambánō ("accept with initiative") emphasizes the volition (assertiveness) of the receiver.

NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from a prim. root lab-
Definition
to take, receive

NASB Translation
accept (1), accepting (1), attempted* (1), bring (2), caught (1), caught caught (1), collect (1), collected (1), conferred* (2), conspired* (1), consulted* (1), experienced* (1), forgotten* (1), gets (1), gripped (1), incur (1), married (2), marry (2), obtained (1), occupy (1), overtaken (1), partial* (1), picked (2), receive (63), received (48), receives (14), receiving (6), seizes (1), shows (1), struck (1), take (24), taken (7), takes (3), taking (9), took (50).

These Hebrews had already taken hold of salvation, proving the subject was about going back to the Law, which would be willful rebellion from God. Paul gave the same warnings to the Galatians.(ch 3)

Now, about your 'recent' conversion to OSAS. I suggest you weren't converted recently at all, because your writing methods reveals a seasoned convert knowing full well what he's doing by using eisegesis to twist this to unsaved Hebrews.

Either that, or yer being coached.

Your earlier writings didn't show any real knowledge at all. AAMF, you constantly mentioned how you were new in all this.

And now, within months, yer a seasoned OSAS writer?

2+2 doesn't equal 4 in this charade.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If a Born-Again Christian for any reason lost his faith in Jesus Christ as Lord of Heaven and Earth and pledged his alliance to something or someone else is not lost the common-sense, logical reality is that God, the Father would have to deny the very words of Jesus about the need for faith in the life of his followers. The Christian who rejects his pledge (1st Tim. 5:12) does not have the faith needed to run the race (Acts 20:23-24), he does not have the oil in his lamp (Matt. 25:1-13) or the proper wedding garment (Matt. 22:11-13) for that glorious day.

To accept that a person is saved without having faith in Jesus Christ when he dies, we would have to do the following:

Deny the need to put our hope in the living God. (1st Tim. 4:10)
Deny the words of Paul, "Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved" (Acts 16:31)
Deny the confidence in what we hope (Hebrews 11:1)
Deny that without faith it is impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6)
Deny that those who hope in the Lord will renew their strength (Isaiah 40:31)
Deny that whoever believes in Him is not condemned (John 3:18)
Deny the need to stop doubting and believe (John 20:27)
Deny that by believing you may have life in His name (John 20:31)
Deny the command to repent and believe the good news (Mark 1:15)
Deny that by believing in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, we will be saved (Romans 10:9)
Deny the incomparably great power for us who believe (Eph. 1:19)
Deny that it is the one who overcomes the world is the one that believes Jesus is the Son of God (1st John 5:5)
Deny that John wrote that those who believe in the name of the Son of God has eternal life. (1st John 5:13)
Deny that by living by faith we are crucified with Christ (Gal. 2:20)
Deny that we must believe and not doubt (James 1:6)
Deny that we have the right because of faith to become children of God (John 1:12)
Deny that God so loved the world that whoever believes in Him shall not perish (John 3:16)
Deny that whoever rejects the Son will not see life (John 3:36)
Deny that whoever believes and is baptized will be saved (Mark 16:16)
Deny that whoever believes will never go hungry (John 6:35)
Deny that if we believe we will see the glory of God (John 11:40)
Deny that the righteous will live by faith (Romans 1:17)
Deny that Christ dwells in our hearts through faith (Eph. 3:17)
Deny that we live by faith and not sight (2nd Cor. 5:7)
Deny that we stand firm by our faith (2nd Cor. 1:24)
Deny the need for faith to fight the good fight (2nd Tim. 4:7)
Deny the power to turn from the power of Satan by faith (Acts 26:18)
Deny the power of the shield of faith (Eph. 6:16)
Deny that Jesus is the pioneer and perfecter of our faith (Hebrews 12:2)
Deny that through faith we are raised with Him from the dead (Col. 2:12)
Deny that we are rooted with Him by faith (Col. 2:7)
Deny the sanctification by faith (2nd Thes. 2:13)
Deny the mystery of faith with a clear conscience (1st Tim. 3:9)
Deny the condemnation of those who set aside their previous pledge (1st Tim. 5:12)
Deny the need to contend earnestly for the faith (Jude 1:3)
Deny the warning that our names can be blotted out of the Book of Life (Rev.3:5)

To say that a person can die without believing in Jesus as Lord and still be saved by the one who he denies is to deny the gospel itself.

John says a person why Denys Christ is an antichrist

He also says, if they at one time considered themselves a part of the church, as a walking child of God, and then departed from that church , and is now denying christ, that person was never part of the church (never saved)

To say that person was saved, and is now unsaved is

1. Calling the apostle John a liar
2, Calling Jesus incompetent (he did not know the person would leave and deny him to his face)
3. Calling the father incompetent (He did not know himself. And allowed Jesus to save the person)
4. Calling the HS incompetent (He did not kn ow the person would do an about face, and considered his work finished.

Which basically puts this whole Christianity thing in the dumpsters. Lets all go eat drink and be merry, because there would be no eternity for us. We are all doomed.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

oh nooooo

you dont understand hebrews 10?



that whole chapter is telling the Jews after they have knowledge of Christ to stop giving sacrifice for their sin


*sigh*

They can not see this, They have to pull verses or sentences out of context to fit their belief system, they do not understand MAN serperated the Bible into verse and chapter divisions, the book was written without it. It would be much harder to pull these sentences out of context if man did not make it easier by separating them into verse/chapter divisions.