How to spot an anti legalist

[MarcR]

APOSTASY; APOSTATE
(ἡ ἀποστασία, hē apostasía, "a standing away from"): I.e. a falling away, a withdrawal, a defection. Not found in the English Versions of the Bible, but used twice in the New Testament, in the Greek original, to express abandonment of the faith. Paul was falsely accused of teaching the Jews apostasy from Moses (Acts 21:21); he predicted the great apostasy from Christianity, foretold by Jesus (Matthew 24:10-12) which would precede "the day of the Lord" (2 Thes. 2:2). Apostasy, not in name but in fact, meets scathing rebuke in the Epistle of Jude, e.g. the apostasy of angels (Jude 1:6). Foretold, with warnings, as sure to abound in the latter days (1 Tim. 4:1-3; 2 Thes. 2:3; 2 Peter 3:17). Causes of: persecution (Matthew 24:9-10); false teachers (Matthew 24:11); temptation (Luke 8:13); worldliness (2 Tim. 4:4); defective knowledge of Christ (1 John 2:19); moral lapse (Hebrews 6:4-6); forsaking worship and spiritual living (Hebrews 10:25-31); unbelief (Hebrews 3:12). Biblical examples: Saul (1 Samuel 15:11); Amaziah (2 Chron. 25:14, 27); many disciples (John 6:66); Hymeneus and Alexander (1 Tim. 1:19-20); Demas (2 Tim. 4:10). For further illustration see Deut. 13:13; Zeph. 1:4-6; Galatians 5:4; 2 Peter 2:20-21.
"Forsaking Yahweh" was the characteristic and oft-recurring sin of the chosen people, especially in their contact with idolatrous nations. It constituted their supreme national peril. The tendency appeared in their earliest history, as abundantly seen in the warnings and prohibitions of the laws of Moses (Exodus 20:3-4, 23; Deut. 6:14; Deut. 11:16). The fearful consequences of religious and moral apostasy appear in the curses pronounced against this sin, on Mount Ebal, by the representatives of six of the tribes of Israel, elected by Moses (Deut. 27:13-26; Deut. 28:15-68). So wayward was the heart of Israel, even in the years immediately following the national emancipation, in the wilderness, that Joshua found it necessary to re-pledge the entire nation to a new fidelity to Yahweh and to their original covenant before they were permitted to enter the Promised Land (Joshua 24:1-28). Infidelity to this covenant blighted the nation's prospects and growth during the time of the Judges (Judges 2:11-15; Judges 10:6, 10, 13; 1 Samuel 12:10). It was the cause of prolific and ever-increasing evil, civic and moral, from Solomon's day to the Assyrian and Babylonian captivities. Many of the kings of the divided kingdom apostatized, leading the people, as in the case of Rehoboam, into the grossest forms of idolatry and immorality (1 Kings 14:22-24; 2 Chron. 12:1). Conspicuous examples of such royal apostasy are Jeroboam (1 Kings 12:28-32); Ahab (1 Kings 16:30-33); Ahaziah (1 Kings 22:51-53); Jehoram (2 Chron. 21:6, 10, 12-15); Ahaz (2 Chron. 28:1-4); Manasseh (2 Chron. 33:1-9); Amen (2 Chron. 33:22). See IDOLATRY. Prophecy originated as a Divine and imperative protest against this historic tendency to defection from the religion of Yahweh.
In classical Greek, apostasy signified revolt from a military commander. In the roman catholic church it denotes abandonment of religious orders; renunciation of ecclesiastical authority; defection from the faith. The persecutions of the early Christian centuries forced many to deny Christian discipleship and to signify their apostasy by offering incense to a heathen deity or blaspheming the name of Christ. The emperor Julian, who probably never vitally embraced the Christian faith, is known in history as "the Apostate," having renounced Christianity for paganism soon after his accession to the throne.
An apostate's defection from the faith may be intellectual, as in the case of Ernst Haeckel, who, because of his materialistic philosophy, publicly and formally renounced Christianity and the church; or it may be moral and spiritual, as with Judas, who for filthy lucre's sake basely betrayed his Lord. See exhaustive articles on "Apostasy" in the Jewish Encyclopedia.
The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia.

Obviously, you don't understand it. You paint it as a moral defection from religion by someone who was never saved, which is a farce. One cannot fall from where they've never been.

I thought you said you were a teacher?

If you believe that teachers never disagree then how do you explain differences of opinion in commentary?

For that matter, where were you when school was in session? I have never heard of any school where all teachers were in unanimous agreement on every subject!

It seems to me that you are more interested in demonstrating how to be rude than you are in discussion.

I don't suppose that you are alone in that; but the fact that you have company doesn't make your attitude any more commendable.

 

[MarcR]

I don't see anything about ownership in the definition. Lord means supreme ruler.

Lord
G2962 κύριος kurios (koo'-ree-os) n.
1. supreme in authority
2. (as noun) controller
3. (by implication) Master (as a respectful title)
[from kuros "supremacy"]

NT:2962

NT:2962 κύριος, κυρίου, ὁ (properly, an adjective κύριος, κυρία κύριον also of two term.; properly equivalent to ὁ ἔχων κῦρος having power or authority) (from Pindar down), he to whom a person or thing belongs, about which he has the power of deciding; master, lord; used a. universally, of the possessor and disposer of a thing, the owner

(from Thayer's Greek Lexicon, PC Study Bible formatted Electronic Database. Copyright © 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)

You might find it helpful to buy proper lexicons of both the Hebrew and the Greek if you intend to engage in serious study.

 

[iwant2serve]

I am going to bite but may not be a popular opinion.

Many people use the word legalist with little to no understanding of it.
strict adherence, or the principle of strict adherence, to law or prescription, especially to the letter rather than the spirit.
the doctrine that salvation is gained through good works. the judging of conduct in terms of adherence to precise laws.

This however does not mean that we do not have laws to obey as citizens of the kingdom of God. When one says this is what God says and that is it they are called legalist, of God said if you are doing this you will not enter His kingdom. If this be the case the Jesus himself was a legalist and the Apostles were also. So use the word in its correct context of leave it out of your vocabulary.

 

[Kefa54]

Thats not a freewill gift, That is a sham, You can have this for free as long as you do not do that.

But if you do do that, than the gift is no longer yours. What we call that in the modern world of internet is a scam, or what we used to call a con artist. I guess thats what you consider Christ to be?



If you gave it to me, and said it was free, it would be mine no matter what, otherwise it is not free. and you just scammed me,

If I walked away it would still be mine, I may have misplaced it, or feel I did not need to use it anymore. but it is still mine.

otherwise again, Your a scammer. [/B][/COLOR]

If I offer you a free gift and you say No Thank you and walk away. I'm a scammer?????????
the gift is still free. It isn't free if I force it on you.

 

[MarcR]

APOSTASY; APOSTATE
(ἡ ἀποστασία, hē apostasía, "a standing away from"): I.e. a falling away, a withdrawal, a defection. Not found in the English Versions of the Bible, but used twice in the New Testament, in the Greek original, to express abandonment of the faith. Paul was falsely accused of teaching the Jews apostasy from Moses (Acts 21:21); he predicted the great apostasy from Christianity, foretold by Jesus (Matthew 24:10-12) which would precede "the day of the Lord" (2 Thes. 2:2). Apostasy, not in name but in fact, meets scathing rebuke in the Epistle of Jude, e.g. the apostasy of angels (Jude 1:6). Foretold, with warnings, as sure to abound in the latter days (1 Tim. 4:1-3; 2 Thes. 2:3; 2 Peter 3:17). Causes of: persecution (Matthew 24:9-10); false teachers (Matthew 24:11); temptation (Luke 8:13); worldliness (2 Tim. 4:4); defective knowledge of Christ (1 John 2:19); moral lapse (Hebrews 6:4-6); forsaking worship and spiritual living (Hebrews 10:25-31); unbelief (Hebrews 3:12). Biblical examples: Saul (1 Samuel 15:11); Amaziah (2 Chron. 25:14, 27); many disciples (John 6:66); Hymeneus and Alexander (1 Tim. 1:19-20); Demas (2 Tim. 4:10). For further illustration see Deut. 13:13; Zeph. 1:4-6; Galatians 5:4; 2 Peter 2:20-21.
"Forsaking Yahweh" was the characteristic and oft-recurring sin of the chosen people, especially in their contact with idolatrous nations. It constituted their supreme national peril. The tendency appeared in their earliest history, as abundantly seen in the warnings and prohibitions of the laws of Moses (Exodus 20:3-4, 23; Deut. 6:14; Deut. 11:16). The fearful consequences of religious and moral apostasy appear in the curses pronounced against this sin, on Mount Ebal, by the representatives of six of the tribes of Israel, elected by Moses (Deut. 27:13-26; Deut. 28:15-68). So wayward was the heart of Israel, even in the years immediately following the national emancipation, in the wilderness, that Joshua found it necessary to re-pledge the entire nation to a new fidelity to Yahweh and to their original covenant before they were permitted to enter the Promised Land (Joshua 24:1-28). Infidelity to this covenant blighted the nation's prospects and growth during the time of the Judges (Judges 2:11-15; Judges 10:6, 10, 13; 1 Samuel 12:10). It was the cause of prolific and ever-increasing evil, civic and moral, from Solomon's day to the Assyrian and Babylonian captivities. Many of the kings of the divided kingdom apostatized, leading the people, as in the case of Rehoboam, into the grossest forms of idolatry and immorality (1 Kings 14:22-24; 2 Chron. 12:1). Conspicuous examples of such royal apostasy are Jeroboam (1 Kings 12:28-32); Ahab (1 Kings 16:30-33); Ahaziah (1 Kings 22:51-53); Jehoram (2 Chron. 21:6, 10, 12-15); Ahaz (2 Chron. 28:1-4); Manasseh (2 Chron. 33:1-9); Amen (2 Chron. 33:22). See IDOLATRY. Prophecy originated as a Divine and imperative protest against this historic tendency to defection from the religion of Yahweh.
In classical Greek, apostasy signified revolt from a military commander. In the roman catholic church it denotes abandonment of religious orders; renunciation of ecclesiastical authority; defection from the faith. The persecutions of the early Christian centuries forced many to deny Christian discipleship and to signify their apostasy by offering incense to a heathen deity or blaspheming the name of Christ. The emperor Julian, who probably never vitally embraced the Christian faith, is known in history as "the Apostate," having renounced Christianity for paganism soon after his accession to the throne.
An apostate's defection from the faith may be intellectual, as in the case of Ernst Haeckel, who, because of his materialistic philosophy, publicly and formally renounced Christianity and the church; or it may be moral and spiritual, as with Judas, who for filthy lucre's sake basely betrayed his Lord. See exhaustive articles on "Apostasy" in the Jewish Encyclopedia.
The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia.

Obviously, you don't understand it. You paint it as a moral defection from religion by someone who was never saved, which is a farce. One cannot fall from where they've never been.

I thought you said you were a teacher?

1 : renunciation of a religious faith
2 : abandonment of a previous loyalty : defection

Meriam Webster Dictionary via Britanica

During the divided kingdom, Israel, the Northern Kingdom was a nation in apostasy.

The apostasy of Judea following the reign of Jotham led to the Babylonian Captivity.

Due to the apostasy of the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Idumean kings; the temple was destroyed.

Since the enactment of prohibition, The United States has been gradually drifting into apostasy. IMO this has been due to a departure from grace and a mistaken notion that law can produce morality.

 

[MarcR]

No need to imply, or guess, just agree with what is written.....(believe in the words of God)

Romans 3:23-25 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;[SUP]24 [/SUP]Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;"


Hebrews 6:4-6 "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,[SUP]5 [/SUP]And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

IMO, Rom 3:25 mention of sins that are past, refers to sins committed by OT believers indicating that they were redeemed the same way we are. If the past sins of individual believers were intended; then the future sins of those not yet born could not be covered.

Hebrews 6:4-6 "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,[SUP]5 [/SUP]And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

As I understand it, this passage is saying that if it were possible for a believer to fall away, there would be no way they could be restored to faith.

This is set forth as a condition contrary to fact; with a clear presumption that the premise is impossible.