Hyper grace
- Thread starter PeterJens
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K
Again you are speaking on the written form contained in ordinances (Mosaic law).
That and the Moral/Spiritual aspect is not one and the same.
The written form no man could keep (Acts 15), but the moral can be because we are not alone. We have the Holy Spirit in us to help guide us, and the burden is light as we are commanded to focus only on walking in LOVE in the faith in Christ.
Even Paul stated that LOVE is greater than FAITH !!!
That and the Moral/Spiritual aspect is not one and the same.
The written form no man could keep (Acts 15), but the moral can be because we are not alone. We have the Holy Spirit in us to help guide us, and the burden is light as we are commanded to focus only on walking in LOVE in the faith in Christ.
Even Paul stated that LOVE is greater than FAITH !!!
All sin is to repented of! Sin is stupid and destructive to us! Repent means to "change your mind" The person in question did repent/change his mind about what he was doing.
In 1 Corth 5 where Paul first talked about this particular sin - he says in verse 2 that the Corinthians were boasting in it. I believe they were saying "look we can do whatever because of the grace of God."
In 1 Corinthians Paul talks about divisions among themselves, men having sex with temple prostitutes ..etc Paul tells them who they are in Christ and how this should look like in our outward behavior. Paul does not have the reaction to all these people the same way as this one situation in chapter 5.
I agree 100% with you in that.."many understand their position in Christ but unfortunately use it to serve the flesh..." I believe this to be a true statement however I really wonder if they really do know who they are in Christ? The scripture says ..when we see Him, we shall be like Him. A failure to see Jesus is a failure to live the true Christian life.
In 1 Corth 5 where Paul first talked about this particular sin - he says in verse 2 that the Corinthians were boasting in it. I believe they were saying "look we can do whatever because of the grace of God."
In 1 Corinthians Paul talks about divisions among themselves, men having sex with temple prostitutes ..etc Paul tells them who they are in Christ and how this should look like in our outward behavior. Paul does not have the reaction to all these people the same way as this one situation in chapter 5.
I agree 100% with you in that.."many understand their position in Christ but unfortunately use it to serve the flesh..." I believe this to be a true statement however I really wonder if they really do know who they are in Christ? The scripture says ..when we see Him, we shall be like Him. A failure to see Jesus is a failure to live the true Christian life.
I agree 100%! Love is the fulfillment of the law! This all comes from believing in the finished work of Christ! A Christian would never have to read the 10 commandments at any time in their life and would by the very life and nature of our Lord in them - fulfill the law.
Christ fulfilled the law for us. The believer has nothing to do with the law now. This is NOT saying the law is bad as it is good! Christ fulfills that law for us morally/spiritually - completely! It's a done deal! Praise God!
Christ fulfilled the law for us. The believer has nothing to do with the law now. This is NOT saying the law is bad as it is good! Christ fulfills that law for us morally/spiritually - completely! It's a done deal! Praise God!
K
Repentance is not just a change your mind, as Jesus said a true repentance will show out in works/deeds/actions.
Which is what Hebrews 10 is alluding to when it speaks of those who continue to sin after coming to the Truth are trampling the Son of God underfoot. For such judgment still awaits them !!!
Which is what Hebrews 10 is alluding to when it speaks of those who continue to sin after coming to the Truth are trampling the Son of God underfoot. For such judgment still awaits them !!!
K
There is the issue though because it is not a done deal, as the law still exists for the unrighteous.
Also Paul continued to warn believers about returning to sinful ways and not continuing in the sound doctrine teachings of Christ. He even warned Timothy of becoming impure again do to partaking in sin again.
We are under Grace therefore we walk by the Spirit and in LOVE, and by doing so there is no law because we would not have to worry about any consequences, thus the law has no bearing to those who do not transgress.
Also Paul continued to warn believers about returning to sinful ways and not continuing in the sound doctrine teachings of Christ. He even warned Timothy of becoming impure again do to partaking in sin again.
We are under Grace therefore we walk by the Spirit and in LOVE, and by doing so there is no law because we would not have to worry about any consequences, thus the law has no bearing to those who do not transgress.
This another example of tradition being brought into our beliefs. The greek word for "repent" is "metanoea" which literally means to "change the mind".
"repent" is a latin word which means " to do penance" which is the word religion has used. The New testament person living in those times would think " change my way of thinking". The "fruit" of repenting can manifest in different ways but it is not the "root" of the meaning of the word. We are simply "reading" into the word what we have been taught by religion.
So to "repent" means to change your mind and believe in what Christ has done! Religion has changed the meaning of the word repent.
I was thinking of going to McDonalds for lunch but I "repented" ( changed my mind ) and went to Burger King instead.
I repent of living my own way and believe on Him who God has sent. In Mark 1:15 it says to repent and believe the gospel1 So, we change our way of thinking from us and our way to believing in our Lord and what He has done for us! It's wonderful!
"repent" is a latin word which means " to do penance" which is the word religion has used. The New testament person living in those times would think " change my way of thinking". The "fruit" of repenting can manifest in different ways but it is not the "root" of the meaning of the word. We are simply "reading" into the word what we have been taught by religion.
So to "repent" means to change your mind and believe in what Christ has done! Religion has changed the meaning of the word repent.
I was thinking of going to McDonalds for lunch but I "repented" ( changed my mind ) and went to Burger King instead.
I repent of living my own way and believe on Him who God has sent. In Mark 1:15 it says to repent and believe the gospel1 So, we change our way of thinking from us and our way to believing in our Lord and what He has done for us! It's wonderful!
The Holy Spirit as Jesus says in John that He convicts/convinces us of righteousness - who we are! God is not sin- conscious. He is righteousness-conscious. They are 2 different mindsets. Sin is already dealt with in Jesus for us believers now we need to see who we are in Him because of His finished work. he doesn't say "Look at what you have done. He says Look at who you are!"
Sin is still sin and destructive but it's a matter of how it is dealt with in our lives now as believers complete in Christ as we are the righteousness of God in Him.
Sin is still sin and destructive but it's a matter of how it is dealt with in our lives now as believers complete in Christ as we are the righteousness of God in Him.
K
I have to go but wanted to leave off with this to you.
You state we are letting traditions get in the way, but you are the one who is letting how other men have defined repentance instead of using what Jesus said.
Change of mind is only part of what repentance means, as Jesus cleary said do works met with repentance. This means our actions need to reflect the repentance, as if we continue to willfully keep doing those sins it wasn't a true repentance !!!
You state we are letting traditions get in the way, but you are the one who is letting how other men have defined repentance instead of using what Jesus said.
Change of mind is only part of what repentance means, as Jesus cleary said do works met with repentance. This means our actions need to reflect the repentance, as if we continue to willfully keep doing those sins it wasn't a true repentance !!!
This is equivalent to saying your conscience should be ignored. This is when morality goes out the window.
Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.
1 Tim 4:2
So I strive always to keep my conscience clear before God and man.
Acts 24:16
They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.
Rom 2:15
I speak the truth in Christ—I am not lying, my conscience confirms it through the Holy Spirit—
Rom 13:5
Sin is an important issue in our lives. It is a denial of Jesus and His work in our hearts. Once you compromise this, there is no kingdom of heaven, because heaven relies on doing the right thing. It is doing the wrong thing that leads to death.
But this is the core criticism of hyper-grace, that saying behaviour is irrelevent is becoming an unbeliever, and denying the power of the cross.
It is also obviously a denial of the teaching of the apostles and Jesus. He is the cornerstone of righteousness.
Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.
1 Tim 4:2
So I strive always to keep my conscience clear before God and man.
Acts 24:16
They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.
Rom 2:15
I speak the truth in Christ—I am not lying, my conscience confirms it through the Holy Spirit—
Rom 13:5
Sin is an important issue in our lives. It is a denial of Jesus and His work in our hearts. Once you compromise this, there is no kingdom of heaven, because heaven relies on doing the right thing. It is doing the wrong thing that leads to death.
But this is the core criticism of hyper-grace, that saying behaviour is irrelevent is becoming an unbeliever, and denying the power of the cross.
It is also obviously a denial of the teaching of the apostles and Jesus. He is the cornerstone of righteousness.
Christ didn't preach legalistic law that i am aware.
How will we sin if we walk in love?
Please tell me why you fail to obey all of Christ literal commands, for that is your yardstick, obeying Christs literal commands.
You see, you can give the perfect response, but neither you nor anyone else can live up to the perfectly pat statements/standards.
The fact is you link obedience to the literal letter to attaining heaven. You can say you are speaking of love in order to obey the literal letter but your hope of heaven is still in the letter being obeyed, not faith in Christ. For you can only have one bottom line, faith or law, not both.
And you fail your own statements for I am sure you do not even try and obey each and every literal command of christ
How will we sin if we walk in love?
Please tell me why you fail to obey all of Christ literal commands, for that is your yardstick, obeying Christs literal commands.
You see, you can give the perfect response, but neither you nor anyone else can live up to the perfectly pat statements/standards.
The fact is you link obedience to the literal letter to attaining heaven. You can say you are speaking of love in order to obey the literal letter but your hope of heaven is still in the letter being obeyed, not faith in Christ. For you can only have one bottom line, faith or law, not both.
And you fail your own statements for I am sure you do not even try and obey each and every literal command of christ
True! Works/deeds/actions are the FRUIT of repentance/changing your mind. They are not repentance. When we change our mind to believe who we are in Christ and in His finished work - it will eventually bring forth fruit.
Changing the mind is the "root" and the "fruit" is in our corresponding actions. We can have the fruit of repentance like the Pharisees did with their lifestyle but the certainly did not "repent" and change their mind about our Lord.
Make no mistake about it - we need to repent/change our mind towards the Lord in order for HIS FRUIT to come in our lives.
Changing the mind is the "root" and the "fruit" is in our corresponding actions. We can have the fruit of repentance like the Pharisees did with their lifestyle but the certainly did not "repent" and change their mind about our Lord.
Make no mistake about it - we need to repent/change our mind towards the Lord in order for HIS FRUIT to come in our lives.
We will not sin if we walk in love, but this very thing we find so hard to do. If in the teaching the failure and causes of failure are never discussed or even admitted, not surprisingly people go astray, and loose the essence of righteousness, even dwelling in the vine, because now there is no difference between sinner and saint.