I Was Born A Christian

p_rehbein · Apr 22, 2015

No, the little ones are not born again yet.............there is no need for them to be yet........do they believe that Jesus Christ is the Saviour? Or do they simply trust in Him as a new born child trusts in its parents?

All things are possible with God, however, again Scripture is clear. One is not born a Christian. Would we make void the sacrifice of Jesus? Would we make void His precious blood shed on Calvary's cross? To say an infant is born a Christian is to do just that.

SarahM777 · Apr 22, 2015

p_rehbein said:

Where does Jesus in John chapter 3 say one word about repentance? And doesn't whosoever believes means that any one who believes in Him is saved? Where is there any mention of age in that passage of scripture? Aren't little children whomsoever?

John 3

3 Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. [SUP]2 [/SUP]He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.[SUP][a][/SUP]”
[SUP]4 [/SUP]“How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit[SUP][b][/SUP] gives birth to spirit. [SUP]7 [/SUP]You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You[SUP][c][/SUP] must be born again.’ [SUP]8 [/SUP]The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”[SUP][d][/SUP]
[SUP]9 [/SUP]“How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]“You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things? [SUP]11 [/SUP]Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. [SUP]12 [/SUP]I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? [SUP]13 [/SUP]No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.[SUP][e][/SUP] [SUP]14 [/SUP]Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,[SUP][f][/SUP] [SUP]15 [/SUP]that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”[SUP][g][/SUP]
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. [SUP]17 [/SUP]For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. [SUP]18 [/SUP]Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. [SUP]19 [/SUP]This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. [SUP]21 [/SUP]But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.

dcontroversal · Apr 22, 2015

I agree and will say that there is a fine line as one must be born again by faith in order to see and perceive the kingdom of God.....maybe they take the following thought to far.....

1. He has chosen us in him before the casting down of the world....

To me the predestination (Calvinistic) approach also comes into play as well.....

It is not that hard to understand that God, before the casting down of the world predetermined that all who come to the Father dia Christ will be received as full grown sons and daughters....!

p_rehbein · Apr 22, 2015

John Chapter 3 lays out God's salvation plan for mankind. That is what I wanted you to read. Do you know the very first Sermon Jesus preached? REPENT..............

Now, for John, Chapter 3.................whosoever believeth in Him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. How exactly does a newborn child believe in Him? How does it even know to believe in anyone?

What did Paul say of this................How can they believe if they have not heard? Can pull up the entire Scripture from Romans if you want me to........but I'm sure you know it.

A newborn child is fully dependent on its parents for everything. It is not yet able to make decisions for itself based on rational thought...........just as is the new born believer dependent on the Holy Spirit..........

Just think of when a baby is born............what growing process it experiences........how that comes to be..........who provides the needs for the child to grow and mature...........it is the same for a new born believer.

New born children are exempted from the condemnation of unbelief, for they have not yet attained the maturity to even know to believe or not believe. Jesus keeps and protects these until they reach the age of accountability.

I don't know why this is such a hard thing to understand. Anyone who has ever raised a child should immediately see and understand that the child is completely incapable of providing for itself. Making life choices..............anything.

p_rehbein · Apr 22, 2015

Romans 10:6 .) But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above

7 .) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
8 .) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 .) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 .) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 .) For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 .) For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 .) For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 .) How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 .) And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

p_rehbein · Apr 22, 2015

Matthew 4:17 .) From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

SarahM777 · Apr 22, 2015

p_rehbein said:

John Chapter 3 lays out God's salvation plan for mankind. That is what I wanted you to read. Do you know the very first Sermon Jesus preached? REPENT..............

Now, for John, Chapter 3.................whosoever believeth in Him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. How exactly does a newborn child believe in Him? How does it even know to believe in anyone?

What did Paul say of this................How can they believe if they have not heard? Can pull up the entire Scripture from Romans if you want me to........but I'm sure you know it.

A newborn child is fully dependent on its parents for everything. It is not yet able to make decisions for itself based on rational thought...........just as is the new born believer dependent on the Holy Spirit..........

Just think of when a baby is born............what growing process it experiences........how that comes to be..........who provides the needs for the child to grow and mature...........it is the same for a new born believer.

New born children are exempted from the condemnation of unbelief, for they have not yet attained the maturity to even know to believe or not believe. Jesus keeps and protects these until they reach the age of accountability.

I don't know why this is such a hard thing to understand. Anyone who has ever raised a child should immediately see and understand that the child is completely incapable of providing for itself. Making life choices..............anything.

Where does scripture even mention an age of accountability? And is FAITH a matter of the heart or the head? Does a little child TRUST and DEPEND on their mother and father? And doesn't Jesus very plainly say UNLESS YOU BECOME LIKE a little child (total trust and dependency on God) you CAN NOT enter into the kingdom of heaven? Can a little child TRUST Jesus? Can
a little child love Jesus just like their mother and father?

p_rehbein · Apr 22, 2015

SarahM777 said:

Once again, within God's salvation plan, these little ones are exempt from damnation. The are innocent in that they do not know right from wrong...........good from evil...........they must be taught these things.......

When a person is reborn.............spiritually they become as new babes in Christ.......they must be instructed in the ways of Christ........they must be fed with milk until they are mature enough to feast on meat.

They are EXEMPT........NOT ACCOUNTABLE for their actions/deeds/works........EXEMPT..........because they do not yet understand............they don't know what it means to be accountable, what it means to sin..........they are EXEMPT.

They are not born Christian...........they are not born disciples of Christ........how can a newborn child take up its cross and choose to follow Christ?

Again, they are exempt from accountability of their words/deeds that older men are held accountable for.

p_rehbein · Apr 22, 2015

Age of accountability:

Deuteronomy 1:39 - Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.

James 4:17 - Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth [it] not, to him it is sin.

Matthew 19:14 - But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

Isaiah 7:16 - For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.

Ezekiel 18:20 - The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Matthew 18:3 - And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Romans 3:23 - For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Romans 14:12 - So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

1 Corinthians 7:14 - For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

SarahM777 · Apr 22, 2015

p_rehbein said:

Once again, within God's salvation plan, these little ones are exempt from damnation. The are innocent in that they do not know right from wrong...........good from evil...........they must be taught these things.......

When a person is reborn.............spiritually they become as new babes in Christ.......they must be instructed in the ways of Christ........they must be fed with milk until they are mature enough to feast on meat.

They are EXEMPT........NOT ACCOUNTABLE for their actions/deeds/works........EXEMPT..........because they do not yet understand............they don't know what it means to be accountable, what it means to sin..........they are EXEMPT.

They are not born Christian...........they are not born disciples of Christ........how can a newborn child take up its cross and choose to follow Christ?

Again, they are exempt from accountability of their words/deeds that older men are held accountable for.

UMM Wouldn't little children that believe in Jesus be little Christians that need to be fed on milk?

SarahM777 · Apr 22, 2015

p_rehbein said:

Age of accountability:

Deuteronomy 1:39 - Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.

James 4:17 - Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth [it] not, to him it is sin.

Matthew 19:14 - But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

Isaiah 7:16 - For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.

Ezekiel 18:20 - The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Matthew 18:3 - And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Romans 3:23 - For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Romans 14:12 - So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

1 Corinthians 7:14 - For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

First do you want to put those verses INTO CONTEXT so others will know what those verses actually say within the context?

Where in any of those verse does it say a little child CAN NOT believe in Jesus? And where do those verses say that a little one CAN NOT be born again?

p_rehbein · Apr 22, 2015

SarahM777 said:

No............

1 Corinthians 3:1 .) And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2 .) I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

The little children are not yet held accountable for their words/deeds.........

SarahM777 · Apr 22, 2015

p_rehbein said:

Can one be BORN AGAIN before they are held accountable? And if NOT where is that in scripture? Verses within CONTEXT please.

p_rehbein · Apr 22, 2015

SarahM777 said:

Let's go at this from another direction.............show me the Scriptures that state a new born infant repented and turned to Christ and accepted Him as its Lord and Saviour and became a disciple of Christ.

Show me the Scripture where a new born child was able to kneel down and pray and ask forgiveness.

Give me the Scriptural justification for a new born infant being born Christian...........when all mankind is born with a sin nature because of the sin of Adam......

Let us work from that angle. Then we can compare what Scriptures I have given with those you give and we will be better able to discern the truth.

p_rehbein · Apr 22, 2015

Here is an Article you may or may not like........but it has good information........well, in my opinion

Excerpt:

[h=1]What is the Age of Accountability?[/h]

by Gary T. Panell

Some people think that God sent babies and young children to hell when He destroyed the world with the flood. This could not be further from the truth. God did not send the children to hell who perished in the flood. Yes, they died, but their spirit went to be with God. This is also the case for all babies and young children throughout history.
We see God's compassion for babies and young children in the book of Jonah in the Bible. In Jonah 3:11 it says, "And should I not pity Nineveh, that great city, in which are more than one hundred and twenty thousand persons who cannot discern between their right hand and their left.?" In Deuteronomy, speaking of children entering the Promised Land, God said, "Moreover your little ones and your children, who you say will be victims, who today have no knowledge of good and evil, they shall go in there; to them I will give it, and they shall possess it" (Deuteronomy 1:39).
Another passage in the Bible, that makes it abundantly clear that babies and young children go to heaven when they die, is found in 2 Samuel 12. Here is the story of the sin of King David with Bathsheba. David was told by God that he would be judged for his sin, even though he had repented of it--David had given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme Him. The Bible says the baby was struck with sickness and died. We see this part of the story in 2 Samuel 12:13-23. David noticed that the servants were whispering, and understood that the baby had died. The servants thought that David would be very sad and go into mourning and more fasting; David, however, surprised them. Look at 2 Samuel 12: 20, which says, "So David arose from the ground, washed and anointed himself, and changed his clothes; and he went into the house of the LORD and worshiped. Then he went to his own house; and when he requested, they set food before him, and he ate."

Found Here:

[h=3]Bible Study: What is the Age of Accountability?[/h]
[h=3][/h]Also, I would like to say that the children who came to Jesus mentioned in John may well have been at the age of accountability for there is no SET age. I know one lady who was raised by a wonderful Christian family, and from early on.......when she could understand........they instructed her in the Word of God. She accepted Jesus as Lord of her life at the age of 8 years old. She is still a wonderful Christian today........a teacher at her church, and beloved mother, grandmother, and an inspiration to all who know her.

REMEMBER the title of this thread...................I WAS BORN A CHRISTIAN............so we are not addressing the exact age one can be born again..............we are addressing if one is BORN a Christian........

Please keep that in mind.

God bless

PoetMary · Apr 22, 2015

Here's what I find interesting:

People can believe literally every miracle of the bible, but they cannot believe that God can communicate with children. Forget the fact that we have scriptural references of his deep involvement with us since we were in the womb (Psa 139 comes to mind). Somehow this great and powerful God of ours is stymied when it comes to communicating with children.

They say that you must read the "age of reason" or the "age of accountability" (neither of which are in the bible) before you can actually know Jesus.

Of course, John the Baptist recognized his Savior while they were BOTH still in the womb.

I'm one of those people who would say that I've always been a Christian. And here's what I mean: I've loved and worshipped Jesus my entire life. I have zero memory of anything but this.

Of course, many have argued with me about my lived experience. They will get out their doctrine sticks and claim this that and the other regarding my faith. The end result of all of it is that I'm not really a Christian, or I'm a sub-par Christian, or I'm lacking in understanding about Jesus, etc., ad nauseum.

If I testified that I was a whoring, thieving, drug-dealing prostitute who cut a swath of sin throughout the world damaging many people and myself, but then I came to Jesus, I'd get a bundle of "Praise the Lords" and "Jesus is Great." But because my lived experience is that I've always known Jesus and I've always loved Jesus and I cannot remember a time when I didn't do so, somehow my faith is questionable.

I guess being raised in a Christian home where you actually believe is "subpar" and "less than ideal."

Of course, if I had children, I'd want that to be their testimony.

AuphirahQueen · Apr 22, 2015

America was built on religion tolerance because not all the founding leaders had same belief, but they did respect each other.

John Adams, in a letter to Thomas Jefferson: "I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved -- the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!"

Benjamin Franklin, from "Articles of Belief and Acts of Religion", 1728-NOV-20: "I cannot conceive otherwise than that He, the Infinite Father, expects or requires no worship or praise from us, but that He is even infinitely above it."

Thomas Jefferson, the third president of the United States:

In A Bill for Establishing Religious Freedom, 1777: "God who gave us life gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are a gift of God. Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that his justice cannot sleep forever."
From his book "Notes on Virginia" 1784: "Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burned, tortured, fined, and imprisoned, yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half of the world fools and the other half hypocrites."
In a letter to Dr. Benjamin Rush, 1800-SEP-23: "I have sworn on the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

James Madison, From "A Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785: "What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not."
[TABLE="width: 100%"]
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[TD="width: 100%"]President Barack Obama: "We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus, and nonbelievers."

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Thomas Paine: "Of all of the tyrannies that affect mankind, tyranny of religion is the worst."

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SarahM777 · Apr 22, 2015

p_rehbein said:

There are no scriptures that state that they can or CAN NOT.

See you end up in a problem when you start coming into handicapped people who CAN NOT articulate it either. Can an autistic person who knows right from wrong,but can not UNDERSTAND the same way a fully mentally functional adult no longer be born again? Can that autistic person truly understand what it means to be a disciple of Christ? Or does God in His wisdom and mercy can cause that autistic in their LIMITED understand to be born again?

A little child certainly can pray. A little child can say they are sorry for hitting their brother or sister and they did wrong. And they certainly can say they are sorry to their heavenly Father and Jesus.

p_rehbein · Apr 22, 2015

Bible Verses on Assurance of Salvation.............

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 5:24 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 6:37 - All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

John 10:27-30 - My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: (Read More...)

John 10:28 - And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.

Acts 2:21 - And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Romans 8:1 - [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:16 - The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Romans 10:9 - That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Romans 10:13 - For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Ephesians 2:8-9 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (Read More...)

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

1 John 2:3-4 - And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. (Read More...)

1 John 5:11-13 - And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. (Read More...)

1 John 5:13 - These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

We are ASSURED of salvation if we are in keeping with these Scriptures.........

Also read:
[h=1]Hebrews
12[/h]
1 .) Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
2 .) Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

AND..........

Hebrews 4:9 .) There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 .) For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 .) Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
12 .) For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13 .) Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
14 .) Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
15 .) For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
16 .) Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

p_rehbein · Apr 22, 2015

SarahM777 said:

Again, these are special instances............and not addressing the question/statement in the OP........

Born a Christian

I have actually answered all of the questions/you posed in the above quote already Sister........I do not wish to anger you or any such...........but I fully believe to teach that one can be born a Christian.......is a very dangerous teaching.

That infant is surely protected by God........but that infant can not possible fulfill the requirements for being born again.

I have given you a huge amount of information on all of this.........I hope you will at least attempt to set aside whatever disagreement you may have with the premises of the OP statement and read through the information provided to understand why I believe teaching that a new born infant can be born a Christian is so dangerous for that infant.

God bless and keep you and yours........

I Was Born A Christian

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