I Will Spew Thee Out of My Mouth
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Rev 3:15 “I know all the things you do, that you are neither hot nor cold. I wish that you were one or the other!16But since you are like lukewarm water, neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth!17You say, ‘I am rich. I have everything I want. I don’t need a thing!’ And you don’t realize that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked.18So I advise you to buy gold from me—gold that has been purified by fire. Then you will be rich. Also buy white garments from me so you will not be shamed by your nakedness, and ointment for your eyes so you will be able to see.19I correct and discipline everyone I love. So be diligent and turn from your indifference.
This scripture speaks of indifference being the "lukewarmness" of the church.
1. lack of interest, concern, or sympathy.
"she shrugged, feigning indifference"
synonyms: lack of concern, unconcern, disinterest, lack of interest, lack of enthusiasm, apathy, nonchalance, insouciance;
2. unimportance.
"it cannot be regarded as a matter of indifference"
synonyms: unimportance, insignificance, irrelevance, inconsequentiality
"a matter of indifference"
When we look at the modern church, we do see that there are things that matter to it. However, they are not usually spiritual things.
Things like success, size, becoming an icon to their community..... these are temporal, carnal.
Such things as the absolutes of the doctrine of salvation, spiritual order, teaching..... many of these things are all but gone in many churches.
IMO, the only way the church can have true revival is to go back to the old path from where it came from, when christians cared about the same things that God cared about.
It's my hope that this can still happen.
This scripture speaks of indifference being the "lukewarmness" of the church.
1. lack of interest, concern, or sympathy.
"she shrugged, feigning indifference"
synonyms: lack of concern, unconcern, disinterest, lack of interest, lack of enthusiasm, apathy, nonchalance, insouciance;
2. unimportance.
"it cannot be regarded as a matter of indifference"
synonyms: unimportance, insignificance, irrelevance, inconsequentiality
"a matter of indifference"
When we look at the modern church, we do see that there are things that matter to it. However, they are not usually spiritual things.
Things like success, size, becoming an icon to their community..... these are temporal, carnal.
Such things as the absolutes of the doctrine of salvation, spiritual order, teaching..... many of these things are all but gone in many churches.
IMO, the only way the church can have true revival is to go back to the old path from where it came from, when christians cared about the same things that God cared about.
It's my hope that this can still happen.
Here is another view of Rev. 3:15. Sometimes I like to use this website as it tackles different questions on scripture and it has questions that people ask at the bottom of the article that helps me out anyway - because we usually have similar questions.
Are You Lukewarm?
Here’s a favorite question of some preachers: “Are you a lukewarm believer?” You’d better have a good answer because if you’re not sure – “Am I lukewarm?” – Jesus may spew you out of his mouth.
What does that mean? He’ll reject you, you apathetic Christian! You may think you’re saved, but if you’re not on fire for God, you’ll end up in the fire!
What diabolical nonsense.
First, you are a part of Christ’s body and Jesus doesn’t spew out body parts. Ever vomited up a kidney? A toe? It’s a ridiculous notion, yet this is exactly what the fearmongers say will happen!
Second, being lukewarm has nothing to do with how enthusiastic you are. When I was a young man, free from the responsibilities of fathering or paying the bills, I thought I was on fire for God. That basically meant I went to a lot of meetings and volunteered for a lot of activities. Nothing wrong with that, but you’re deluding yourself if you think busyness impresses the Lord.
Defining lukewarmness in terms of zeal is fraught with problems. What is hot to you is lukewarm to someone else. (You haven’t led as many people to Jesus as Billy Graham? Get out of my sight you lukewarm loser!)
Zeal can be a mask for works-righteousness. (As if that impresses the Lord!) And while most would say it’s better to be a little bit on fire for God – “Hey, at least I’m trying” – Jesus would prefer you were stone cold:
I know what you have done; I know that you are neither cold nor hot. How I wish you were either one or the other! (Rev 3:15, GNB)
What does it mean to be lukewarm?
Lukewarm is what you get when you mix hot and cold. To be lukewarm is to mix that which shouldn’t be mixed. For instance, mix the white-hot love of God with the stone-cold demands of the law and you’ll fall from grace (see Galatians). Mix up your husbands by running back to the law and you’re cheating on Jesus (see Roman 7).
Ironically, the mixture of unmixable things is a leading cause of complacency in the church. If Christians are lukewarm in the modern sense, it’s because they are lukewarm in the Biblical sense. They’ve been paralyzed and neutered by the irreconcilable demands of crippling mixture. The disease of lukewarmness results from the following unhealthy activities:
Why does Jesus prefer us cold to lukewarm?
Live with a mixture of the old and new and you’ll reap the benefits of neither. You won’t enjoy the grace that God has provided, nor will you heed the law that points to Jesus.
The number one cause of lukewarmness is cheap law, namely the delusion that God accepts anything less than perfection. Cheap law may be packaged as the pursuit of holiness or spiritual disciplines. It could be an emphasis on the sacrifices you bring or the promises you make, but its fruit always has the nauseating stench of self-righteousness. “Look what I’m doing for you Lord!”
The remedy for lukewarmness is the sort of stone-cold assessment that Jesus gives to the Laodiceans:
You make me want to vomit. You brag, “I’m rich, I’ve got it made, I need nothing from anyone,” oblivious that in fact you’re a pitiful, blind beggar, threadbare and homeless. (Rev 3:16-17, MSG)
Why does Jesus say it’s better to be cold than lukewarm? Because the law that Jesus preached silences proud mouths revealing our need for grace.
How do I become hot?
I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see. (Rev 3:18)
Thank God for grace! Because of grace you get to swap your filthy self-righteous rags for the clean robes of Christ’s righteousness. You get to trade your hay, wood, and stubble for the golden treasure that is Jesus himself. With his salve on your eyes you will see that his sacrifice is a perfectly perfect work that cannot be improved upon.
Want to be hot? Then stop mixing grace with law. Stop living in the netherworld between two covenants. Stop running back to your old husband Mr. Law. Stop doubting the promises of God. Stop sleeping with the maid of self-effort. Stop striving for balance. Stop trying to replicate what Christ has done.
In short, repent and believe the good news that Jesus Christ has done it all!
Here is the link below if you are interested in the questions about the teaching.
.https://escapetoreality.org/2015/07/24/are-you-lukewarm/
Are You Lukewarm?
Here’s a favorite question of some preachers: “Are you a lukewarm believer?” You’d better have a good answer because if you’re not sure – “Am I lukewarm?” – Jesus may spew you out of his mouth.
What does that mean? He’ll reject you, you apathetic Christian! You may think you’re saved, but if you’re not on fire for God, you’ll end up in the fire!
What diabolical nonsense.
First, you are a part of Christ’s body and Jesus doesn’t spew out body parts. Ever vomited up a kidney? A toe? It’s a ridiculous notion, yet this is exactly what the fearmongers say will happen!
Second, being lukewarm has nothing to do with how enthusiastic you are. When I was a young man, free from the responsibilities of fathering or paying the bills, I thought I was on fire for God. That basically meant I went to a lot of meetings and volunteered for a lot of activities. Nothing wrong with that, but you’re deluding yourself if you think busyness impresses the Lord.
Defining lukewarmness in terms of zeal is fraught with problems. What is hot to you is lukewarm to someone else. (You haven’t led as many people to Jesus as Billy Graham? Get out of my sight you lukewarm loser!)
Zeal can be a mask for works-righteousness. (As if that impresses the Lord!) And while most would say it’s better to be a little bit on fire for God – “Hey, at least I’m trying” – Jesus would prefer you were stone cold:
I know what you have done; I know that you are neither cold nor hot. How I wish you were either one or the other! (Rev 3:15, GNB)
What does it mean to be lukewarm?
Lukewarm is what you get when you mix hot and cold. To be lukewarm is to mix that which shouldn’t be mixed. For instance, mix the white-hot love of God with the stone-cold demands of the law and you’ll fall from grace (see Galatians). Mix up your husbands by running back to the law and you’re cheating on Jesus (see Roman 7).
Ironically, the mixture of unmixable things is a leading cause of complacency in the church. If Christians are lukewarm in the modern sense, it’s because they are lukewarm in the Biblical sense. They’ve been paralyzed and neutered by the irreconcilable demands of crippling mixture. The disease of lukewarmness results from the following unhealthy activities:
- Mixing the new covenant of grace with the old covenant of works
- Mixing the new law written on our hearts with the old law written on tablets
- Mixing the rest of the new with the ceaseless demands of the old
- Mixing the unbreakable promises of God with the brittle promises of man
- Mixing the bondage of Sinai with the liberty of Zion (Gal 4:31)
- Mixing the ministry that condemns (2 Cor 3:9) with the ministry of no condemnation (Rom 8:1)
Why does Jesus prefer us cold to lukewarm?
Live with a mixture of the old and new and you’ll reap the benefits of neither. You won’t enjoy the grace that God has provided, nor will you heed the law that points to Jesus.
The number one cause of lukewarmness is cheap law, namely the delusion that God accepts anything less than perfection. Cheap law may be packaged as the pursuit of holiness or spiritual disciplines. It could be an emphasis on the sacrifices you bring or the promises you make, but its fruit always has the nauseating stench of self-righteousness. “Look what I’m doing for you Lord!”
The remedy for lukewarmness is the sort of stone-cold assessment that Jesus gives to the Laodiceans:
You make me want to vomit. You brag, “I’m rich, I’ve got it made, I need nothing from anyone,” oblivious that in fact you’re a pitiful, blind beggar, threadbare and homeless. (Rev 3:16-17, MSG)
Why does Jesus say it’s better to be cold than lukewarm? Because the law that Jesus preached silences proud mouths revealing our need for grace.
How do I become hot?
I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see. (Rev 3:18)
Thank God for grace! Because of grace you get to swap your filthy self-righteous rags for the clean robes of Christ’s righteousness. You get to trade your hay, wood, and stubble for the golden treasure that is Jesus himself. With his salve on your eyes you will see that his sacrifice is a perfectly perfect work that cannot be improved upon.
Want to be hot? Then stop mixing grace with law. Stop living in the netherworld between two covenants. Stop running back to your old husband Mr. Law. Stop doubting the promises of God. Stop sleeping with the maid of self-effort. Stop striving for balance. Stop trying to replicate what Christ has done.
In short, repent and believe the good news that Jesus Christ has done it all!
Here is the link below if you are interested in the questions about the teaching.
.https://escapetoreality.org/2015/07/24/are-you-lukewarm/
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so go ahead
no one is stopping you
we are holding our collective breaths
no one is stopping you
we are holding our collective breaths
Amen......whenever law is being preached - the law incites sin in our flesh to act up.
Those that are preaching the law of not doing "adultery and lying...etc" - are the very ones most likely to do them because the preaching of the law of commandments inflames sin.
The preaching of Christ and the revelation of what He has already done brings the grace necessary for walking by the spirit so that we don't fulfill the lusts of the flesh to do "it's" desires.
Religion always gets the gospel and the things of Christ for living backwards and thus they try to "dictate" the fruit of the spirit and in doing so - actually create sin in our flesh to inflame to incite people to do what it wants.
Those that are preaching the law of not doing "adultery and lying...etc" - are the very ones most likely to do them because the preaching of the law of commandments inflames sin.
The preaching of Christ and the revelation of what He has already done brings the grace necessary for walking by the spirit so that we don't fulfill the lusts of the flesh to do "it's" desires.
Religion always gets the gospel and the things of Christ for living backwards and thus they try to "dictate" the fruit of the spirit and in doing so - actually create sin in our flesh to inflame to incite people to do what it wants.
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L
how would you like to hear 'come back to Jesus' when the person really meant 'how come I can't manipulate you like I used to?'
I'm not sure you recover...I think it may be more like you dig a foxhole and watch the grenades flying by while praying for discernment and trying to find your bearings
well you know...empty barrels and all that and I'm not applying that to anyone on this site...folks like that generally make enough noise so that you get it anyway..haha
I have a tendency to keep flipping things over and over and over anyway...you have to let go at some point and go on
I'm in a much better place then say...even 2 yrs ago...but I still can't really wrap my head around some things...and God knows that...so...I just keep saying I forgive so and so and whatever...
christianese...there are songs I just can't sing because of it...no loss I guess..
it's like a bunch of ants running around and they don't see the big ole foot coming down on them
L
you know, sirk is discussing sin...and the effects of it in church
and I have certainly seen my share of Christians with big mouths and little to show for it
aren't you content with ripping all of that up?
no...apparently you are not
you see Grace here and you start again with hypergrace
seriously, it's sad how you try to hurt people and in such a zealous manner
I thought you were supposed to be a pastor or something at one point?
not much of an understanding heart you got going there mister
there is a time for everything and if you had even a smidgen of discernment, this is not the time for you to do your 'let me revile you' act
L
Jesus is the cornerstone...and He falls on more church stones then some want to believe
some people are so busy correcting others, they don't know it is to them that God is speaking
I knew someone once, that would stand up and just let 'er rip...always a message of condemnation that was supposed to be the congregation not living up to what God expected of them
my final conclusion, was that God was actually speaking to that person and they took it to mean everyone else
wonder how often that message gets mixed up?
yup. I've heard that very thing. My ex pastor texted me for awhile. He basically told me he cared so much about my soul and that I was sinning and needed to get right with God. What he really meant was come crawling back and play guitar for my me and my church because we can't find people anymore cuz we keep burning bridges. I predict that church will either fire the pastor or fail.
E
Late to the party again,
Instead of reading all responses.
Has anyone already showed how this church was a church in name only?
(Your works are neither hot nor cold)
1. They tried to obey God, thus were not evil
2. They were not saved, so could not do good
They thought they were rich, so had no need of anything.
1. They could not come to Christ, because they did not think they needed his wealth)
2. Because they had a false sense of who they were they did not realise how broken they were
He told them to anoint their eyes with medecine so they could see (ie they were blind)
He told them to repent (because they had not yet repented)
He told them he was calling out to them, knocking for them, asking them to open the door. because he had not been asked in yet.
It is the false church, the church in name only He did not take away their salvation, He spewed them out because they used his name.. but did not represent him at all
Instead of reading all responses.
Has anyone already showed how this church was a church in name only?
(Your works are neither hot nor cold)
1. They tried to obey God, thus were not evil
2. They were not saved, so could not do good
They thought they were rich, so had no need of anything.
1. They could not come to Christ, because they did not think they needed his wealth)
2. Because they had a false sense of who they were they did not realise how broken they were
He told them to anoint their eyes with medecine so they could see (ie they were blind)
He told them to repent (because they had not yet repented)
He told them he was calling out to them, knocking for them, asking them to open the door. because he had not been asked in yet.
It is the false church, the church in name only He did not take away their salvation, He spewed them out because they used his name.. but did not represent him at all
Jesus said that there would be tares in with the wheat and that the angels would separate them out at the end of the age. The righteous will then shine forth. The lawless are those that try to enter in from another door other than Jesus.
The question to me is - are these people walking after the flesh or are they not in Christ at all but just being "religious"? Only God can really answer that question as He is the one who looks at the heart and true belief is of the heart.
I think that's why Paul says in a few places for the people to examine themselves to see if they are in the faith. Or if we fail the test - then we will be found to be reprobates.
2 Corinthians 13:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
The question to me is - are these people walking after the flesh or are they not in Christ at all but just being "religious"? Only God can really answer that question as He is the one who looks at the heart and true belief is of the heart.
I think that's why Paul says in a few places for the people to examine themselves to see if they are in the faith. Or if we fail the test - then we will be found to be reprobates.
2 Corinthians 13:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
Let me see..... G777 posts a hypergrace post from a popular hypergrace site, & I get slammed for saying it's a popular hypergrace site? And somehow I'm hurting people saying that?
I just don't think it's that simple dear.
Sirk always discusses the bad side of the church when he comes into the BDF. Somebody or some group always becomes his hobby-horse to jump on.
About discernment..... Someone does a lash-out on the church & then plays the victim to get sympathy..... He been doing this for years, with plenty of people feeling sorry for him. And you know what? With all the prayer & counsel he got, he never changed.....ever.
Same re-run every time he comes in here. And you fell for it. Pulling on someone's sympathy strings does NOT equal discernment. What it really means is that you've been played.....and I'm truly sorry that it happened to you.
I just don't think it's that simple dear.
Sirk always discusses the bad side of the church when he comes into the BDF. Somebody or some group always becomes his hobby-horse to jump on.
About discernment..... Someone does a lash-out on the church & then plays the victim to get sympathy..... He been doing this for years, with plenty of people feeling sorry for him. And you know what? With all the prayer & counsel he got, he never changed.....ever.
Same re-run every time he comes in here. And you fell for it. Pulling on someone's sympathy strings does NOT equal discernment. What it really means is that you've been played.....and I'm truly sorry that it happened to you.
L
Sirk;2947997]
hah
you know why? because I have been shown grace...by the One I hurt...that's all
we cannot excuse our own behavior by how we are treated by others...just a fact...yet I have certainly done so and we keep going through it until the light comes on
I don't think anything bad of you...I prefer honesty, even if painful, to sweet words and smiles that don't reach the eyes
that does not make me better than anyone...just forgiven
hah
you know why? because I have been shown grace...by the One I hurt...that's all
we cannot excuse our own behavior by how we are treated by others...just a fact...yet I have certainly done so and we keep going through it until the light comes on
I don't think anything bad of you...I prefer honesty, even if painful, to sweet words and smiles that don't reach the eyes
that does not make me better than anyone...just forgiven