If you keep Lev 15:22, how do you go about doing it?
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Thanks for the lesson. I've heard it many times.
It is great to look at the theology of the Old Testament from a New Testament standpoint, but we must keep in mind that it was not written to us. For the purpose of what I said, look at what was written from the view of the Israelite People of the era. The Law's meaning then becomes clear.
The people of Israel were between Egypt and the Promise Land when most of the Law was given. That was deliverance from Egypt and exiled (he had already given them the Promise Land, but wouldn't let them enter) from the promise land because God would not let them enter.
Yes the whole chapter is about bodily discharges. The particular verse deal exclusively with the body discharge of menses. The Chapter teaches nothing about moral defilement. I do not believe that God was into symbolism when He gave Moses and Aaron this set of laws. In fact he begins Lev 15 by addressing these issues as Uncleanliness, not of the soul, but of the body. God gave the people the laws need to honor Him, and to keep themselves safe during the period of wandering and afterwards.
If you look carefully you will find that God used the animal sacrifice, the shedding of blood (not the issue of blood) to cover the sins that the people committed against Him. In every case where there was a sin against man, he used a penalty to cover the sin against man. The Law also gave the penalties for it. It was that shed blood of Christ at the Cross, that would save man from his sins.
The Pharisees had made the Laws impossible to keep, by analyzing symbolism and writing new Laws to explain it. Jesus constantly took them to task over their interpretation of the Law.
It is great to look at the theology of the Old Testament from a New Testament standpoint, but we must keep in mind that it was not written to us. For the purpose of what I said, look at what was written from the view of the Israelite People of the era. The Law's meaning then becomes clear.
The people of Israel were between Egypt and the Promise Land when most of the Law was given. That was deliverance from Egypt and exiled (he had already given them the Promise Land, but wouldn't let them enter) from the promise land because God would not let them enter.
Yes the whole chapter is about bodily discharges. The particular verse deal exclusively with the body discharge of menses. The Chapter teaches nothing about moral defilement. I do not believe that God was into symbolism when He gave Moses and Aaron this set of laws. In fact he begins Lev 15 by addressing these issues as Uncleanliness, not of the soul, but of the body. God gave the people the laws need to honor Him, and to keep themselves safe during the period of wandering and afterwards.
If you look carefully you will find that God used the animal sacrifice, the shedding of blood (not the issue of blood) to cover the sins that the people committed against Him. In every case where there was a sin against man, he used a penalty to cover the sin against man. The Law also gave the penalties for it. It was that shed blood of Christ at the Cross, that would save man from his sins.
The Pharisees had made the Laws impossible to keep, by analyzing symbolism and writing new Laws to explain it. Jesus constantly took them to task over their interpretation of the Law.
Really? Aren't Gentiles also suppose to love God and others? Some don't want to admit that the Pharisees totally distorted the truth of the original law. The Pentateuch is also written in English because God wanted us to study it also. If it was intended only for the Hebrews it would not have be translated to other languages. This is not a mistake. It's God ordained.
Leviticus 19:15-18
15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
16 Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD. 17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
18 Thou shalt not avenge , nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
Deuteronomy 6:1-6
1 Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:
2 That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged .
3 Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the LORD God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.
4 Hear , O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
If you deny the instructions you won't know how to accomplish the task at hand.
Luke 10:26-28
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou ?
27 And he answering said , Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do , and thou shalt live .
Leviticus 19:15-18
15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
16 Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD. 17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
18 Thou shalt not avenge , nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
Deuteronomy 6:1-6
1 Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:
2 That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged .
3 Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the LORD God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.
4 Hear , O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
If you deny the instructions you won't know how to accomplish the task at hand.
Luke 10:26-28
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou ?
27 And he answering said , Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do , and thou shalt live .
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Hebrews 7:11-12
11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law ,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? 12 For the priesthood being changed , there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
This is "a" change to the law starting at the Mount of transfiguration. It doesn't change the principles, but the priesthood only.
Study about Judah and Ephraim, and Joshua and Caleb, and the two sticks as one in God's hand. Then you will see the relevance of this change.
Hebrews 7:13-19
13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
16 Who is made , not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
17 For he testifieth , Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
19 For the law made nothing perfect , but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
It's not the carnal commandments that we should be addressing because of the new. If that's all we can see, the Bible clearly says that we are of a carnal mind because we are unable to be subject to the law in the correct way. And yes, the law made nothing perfect. The carnal applications no longer apply, but on the same token the law identifies how to love God and our neighbor. That principle is not from the new, but from the old.
Hebrews 8:7, and 13 are talking about he temple. The word covenant is an added word after being translated by KJV. It is obvious when starting with the 1st verse of that chapter. The 1st verse in chapter 9 also has this added word when identifying the temple.
Hebrews 9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
What was waxing old and ready to vanish? It was the physical applications, particularly the physical temple worship. Jesus fulfilled that making a temple without hands, and circumcising without hands. What changed was the priesthood because that area of responsibility for the forgiveness of sin was transfered to Christ Jesus. Our responsibility is still in relevant according to the principles of instructions from the beginning.
The principles of love are our responsibility. That is not gone or set aside.
11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law ,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? 12 For the priesthood being changed , there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
This is "a" change to the law starting at the Mount of transfiguration. It doesn't change the principles, but the priesthood only.
Study about Judah and Ephraim, and Joshua and Caleb, and the two sticks as one in God's hand. Then you will see the relevance of this change.
Hebrews 7:13-19
13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
16 Who is made , not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
17 For he testifieth , Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
19 For the law made nothing perfect , but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
It's not the carnal commandments that we should be addressing because of the new. If that's all we can see, the Bible clearly says that we are of a carnal mind because we are unable to be subject to the law in the correct way. And yes, the law made nothing perfect. The carnal applications no longer apply, but on the same token the law identifies how to love God and our neighbor. That principle is not from the new, but from the old.
Hebrews 8:7, and 13 are talking about he temple. The word covenant is an added word after being translated by KJV. It is obvious when starting with the 1st verse of that chapter. The 1st verse in chapter 9 also has this added word when identifying the temple.
Hebrews 9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
What was waxing old and ready to vanish? It was the physical applications, particularly the physical temple worship. Jesus fulfilled that making a temple without hands, and circumcising without hands. What changed was the priesthood because that area of responsibility for the forgiveness of sin was transfered to Christ Jesus. Our responsibility is still in relevant according to the principles of instructions from the beginning.
The principles of love are our responsibility. That is not gone or set aside.
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Am I hearing obdurateness here?
The "theology" of the OT was not written to anyone,
for the OT does not write "theology."
The commandments, judgments and statutes of the OT were given to the OT people of God, and
are useful to the NT people of God (2Tim 3:16).
The entire book of Leviticus was given during a very short period of time.
The entire book, from the first chapters on animal sacrifices to the last chapters
on redemption of vows and non-redemption of devoted things and persons,
are filled with symbols and prefigures of holiness, sin, grace, Christ, his nature, and his work.
There is no chapter in Leviticus that is not "into symbolism."
It is the seedbed of NT theology, in which the glory of Christ Jesus is pictured very clearly.
The "theology" of the OT was not written to anyone,
for the OT does not write "theology."
The commandments, judgments and statutes of the OT were given to the OT people of God, and
are useful to the NT people of God (2Tim 3:16).
The entire book of Leviticus was given during a very short period of time.
The entire book, from the first chapters on animal sacrifices to the last chapters
on redemption of vows and non-redemption of devoted things and persons,
are filled with symbols and prefigures of holiness, sin, grace, Christ, his nature, and his work.
There is no chapter in Leviticus that is not "into symbolism."
It is the seedbed of NT theology, in which the glory of Christ Jesus is pictured very clearly.
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All that Jesus taught that passes cleanly through the Work of Christ stands.
He Himself rendered the Old Covenant as a covenantal system obsolete by the Work He accomplished and by His current, permanent position as our Perfect High Priest.
Christ is the Perfect, Permanent High Priest of the New Covenant, the covenant built on better promises with a better Priesthood.
The Old Covenant has no mediator.
The Old Covenant is inferior to the New.
Jesus preached the Law to those under the Law. He preached the Law hard to the self-righteous, using the Law for one of its primary purposes - to show people their sin, even when they think they're doing fine, or to bring it into contemporary terms, 'try your best'.
Jesus preached grace to the humble, oft times in front of the self-righteous.
Everything in the Old Covenant which love for others fulfills, stands. The rest of it, designed to physically keep Israel set apart from the world, is obsolete.
Why? Because now, under the New Covenant, we are to go out into all the world to share the Gospel of Grace, not to isolate ourselves from the world.
Now do not read something I did NOT write there and ask silly questions like, "so it's okay to do thus and so now?" or, "so it's okay to look like the world?"
Let me ask you this: How did Jesus say the world would know His disciples? By how they kept the Law or by their love?
Why?
Because Jesus knew what the fruit of the Law is: It was designed to separate, isolate, identify and point out sinning, and stir up sinning (Rom. 5, 7, 1 Cor. 15:56). It was given for the unrighteous, not for the righteous (1 Tim. 1, Rom. 5, 2 Cor. 5).
In addition, He knew what the Fruit of His Spirit is: Love (Gal.5)
That's why we see this written in the New Covenant Scriptures: If you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. (Gal. 5:18)
Simply put, we are to do this regarding all of the Scriptures, including the very words of Christ:
-JGIG
He Himself rendered the Old Covenant as a covenantal system obsolete by the Work He accomplished and by His current, permanent position as our Perfect High Priest.
Christ is the Perfect, Permanent High Priest of the New Covenant, the covenant built on better promises with a better Priesthood.
The Old Covenant has no mediator.
The Old Covenant is inferior to the New.
Jesus preached the Law to those under the Law. He preached the Law hard to the self-righteous, using the Law for one of its primary purposes - to show people their sin, even when they think they're doing fine, or to bring it into contemporary terms, 'try your best'.
Jesus preached grace to the humble, oft times in front of the self-righteous.
Everything in the Old Covenant which love for others fulfills, stands. The rest of it, designed to physically keep Israel set apart from the world, is obsolete.
Why? Because now, under the New Covenant, we are to go out into all the world to share the Gospel of Grace, not to isolate ourselves from the world.
Now do not read something I did NOT write there and ask silly questions like, "so it's okay to do thus and so now?" or, "so it's okay to look like the world?"
Let me ask you this: How did Jesus say the world would know His disciples? By how they kept the Law or by their love?
Why?
Because Jesus knew what the fruit of the Law is: It was designed to separate, isolate, identify and point out sinning, and stir up sinning (Rom. 5, 7, 1 Cor. 15:56). It was given for the unrighteous, not for the righteous (1 Tim. 1, Rom. 5, 2 Cor. 5).
In addition, He knew what the Fruit of His Spirit is: Love (Gal.5)
That's why we see this written in the New Covenant Scriptures: If you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. (Gal. 5:18)
Simply put, we are to do this regarding all of the Scriptures, including the very words of Christ:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. (from 2 Tim. 2)
-JGIG
You may be claiming that you don't do it for salvation, but do you believe to not 'do' the Law is sinning?
And if you do believe that, then you are absolutely 'doing' it to maintain YOUR righteousness, not relying on CHRIST'S Righteousness.
So much of this is silliness anyway because NONE of you is actually keeping anything!
"It is finished." - Christ Jesus
13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, 14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. 15 He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him.
Colossians chapter 2.
-JGIG
And if you do believe that, then you are absolutely 'doing' it to maintain YOUR righteousness, not relying on CHRIST'S Righteousness.
So much of this is silliness anyway because NONE of you is actually keeping anything!
"It is finished." - Christ Jesus
13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, 14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. 15 He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him.
Colossians chapter 2.
-JGIG
Right, the old is set aside.
You lost me there. . .not making any sense.
What is the difference between the "carnal applications" which do not apply
and "how to love. . .our neighbor" which does apply?
The old is set aside. . .and replaced with the law of Christ (Mt 22:37-39),
as the Aaronic priesthood is set aside and replaced with the new order of Melchizedek.
You've gotten some bad information on that.
Heb 8:6-8, 13:
"But the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant
of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, and is founded on better promises.
For if there had been nothing wrong with the first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. . .
But God found fault with the people and said; 'The time is coming, declares the Lord, when I will make
a new covenant. . .'
By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete. . ."
All four of those words, "covenant," are in the Greek text.
Nothing was added by the KJV.
Heb 8:6-8, 13 do not refer to the Temple, but to the covenant.
You've really got this one wrong, and have not explained Heb 7:18-19 to me.
The old is set aside,
the old priesthood is set aside and replaced with the order of Melchizedek (Heb 7:11-12),
the old law is set aside (Heb 7:18-19) and replaced with the law of Christ (Mt 22:37-39),
the old covenant is set aside (Heb 8:13) and replaced with he new covenant (Lk 22:20).
Right, and they are written on our hearts by the Holy Spirit, not written in a code.
I don't need a written code to know not to
worship idols or profane God's name,
disrespect my parents,
murder my neighbor,
commit adultery with the spouse of my neighbor,
steal from my neighbor,
lie about my neighbor,
lust after the possessions of my neighbor.
Nor do I need a written code to know to
drive my elderly neighbor to the grocery store, or doctor,
trim the bushes by my elderly neighbor's front door,
invite my elderly neighbor to eat with us,
take my neighbor's dog back when it gets out,
tutor a kid that needs help,
take care of a sick sibling,
etc., etc., etc.
To know how to obey Christ's law of love (Mt 22:37-39; Gal 5:6), all I need is the Holy Spirit.
You lost me there. . .not making any sense.
What is the difference between the "carnal applications" which do not apply
and "how to love. . .our neighbor" which does apply?
The old is set aside. . .and replaced with the law of Christ (Mt 22:37-39),
as the Aaronic priesthood is set aside and replaced with the new order of Melchizedek.
You've gotten some bad information on that.
Heb 8:6-8, 13:
"But the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant
of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, and is founded on better promises.
For if there had been nothing wrong with the first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. . .
But God found fault with the people and said; 'The time is coming, declares the Lord, when I will make
a new covenant. . .'
By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete. . ."
All four of those words, "covenant," are in the Greek text.
Nothing was added by the KJV.
Heb 8:6-8, 13 do not refer to the Temple, but to the covenant.
You've really got this one wrong, and have not explained Heb 7:18-19 to me.
The old is set aside,
the old priesthood is set aside and replaced with the order of Melchizedek (Heb 7:11-12),
the old law is set aside (Heb 7:18-19) and replaced with the law of Christ (Mt 22:37-39),
the old covenant is set aside (Heb 8:13) and replaced with he new covenant (Lk 22:20).
Right, and they are written on our hearts by the Holy Spirit, not written in a code.
I don't need a written code to know not to
worship idols or profane God's name,
disrespect my parents,
murder my neighbor,
commit adultery with the spouse of my neighbor,
steal from my neighbor,
lie about my neighbor,
lust after the possessions of my neighbor.
Nor do I need a written code to know to
drive my elderly neighbor to the grocery store, or doctor,
trim the bushes by my elderly neighbor's front door,
invite my elderly neighbor to eat with us,
take my neighbor's dog back when it gets out,
tutor a kid that needs help,
take care of a sick sibling,
etc., etc., etc.
To know how to obey Christ's law of love (Mt 22:37-39; Gal 5:6), all I need is the Holy Spirit.
Ah the games Law-keepers play with language to support their belief system.
'Fulfill' in Mt. 5:17 uses a different Greek word than 'be done' in Mt. 6:10.
Seriously.
Mt. 5:17 - fulfill - G4137 - plēroō
Mt. 6:10 - be done - G1096 - ginomai
Totally different words, meanings, outcomes.
Enough with the bait and switch already.
-JGIG
'Fulfill' in Mt. 5:17 uses a different Greek word than 'be done' in Mt. 6:10.
Seriously.
Mt. 5:17 - fulfill - G4137 - plēroō
- to make full, to fill up, i.e. to fill to the full
- to cause to abound, to furnish or supply liberally
- I abound, I am liberally supplied
- to render full, i.e. to complete
- to fill to the top: so that nothing shall be wanting to full measure, fill to the brim
to consummate: a number- to make complete in every particular, to render perfect
- to carry through to the end, to accomplish, carry out, (some undertaking)
to carry into effect, bring to realisation, realise- of matters of duty: to perform, execute
- of sayings, promises, prophecies, to bring to pass, ratify, accomplish
Mt. 6:10 - be done - G1096 - ginomai
- to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being
to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen- of events
to arise, appear in history, come upon the stage- of men appearing in public
to be made, finished- of miracles, to be performed, wrought
Totally different words, meanings, outcomes.
Enough with the bait and switch already.
-JGIG
4 I say this in order that no one may delude you with plausible arguments. 5 For though I am absent in body, yet I am with you in spirit, rejoicing to see your good order and the firmness of your faith in Christ.
6 Therefore, as you received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him, 7 rooted and built up in him and established in the faith, just as you were taught, abounding in thanksgiving. (from Col. 2)
-JGIG
Old Covenant Law and New Testament exhortations/commands are two different things.
Law involves enforcement and punishment/judgement for violations.
Exhortations are teaching for the good of you and those around you. To violate NT exhortations results in suffering the natural consequences of our actions, but there is no punishment/judgement for those in Christ.
Again, completely different covenantal systems.
-JGIG
Taking scripture into context I answer your question with these next 3 verses that are in the OT law.
John 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another
Deuteronomy 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Leviticus 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge , nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
To deny the instructions renders one unable to love God's way rather than our own interpretations of love. There are bunches of principles in the law in order for us to love God's way.
On to the fruit of the law. I agree with you in part that it is to point out sin. Therefore we can use it to bring the lost to Christ as Paul said to the Galatians for it is a schoolmaster that leads in that direction. On the other hand, it is good for educating the saved as Paul described of himself to the Romans.
Romans 7:12-14
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid . But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Christians can use it to die daily as Paul said about himself. The law should never be identified only with a carnal mind.
Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid : yea, we establish the law.
Romans 4:14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void , and the promise made of none effect:
Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be .
Yes study to show yourself approved by putting it all in perspective for "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" (2 Timothy 3:16) If we are truly saved we will want the reproof, correction, doctrinal profitability, and instruction in righteous living. To deny it means we really don't care enough to walk accordingly.
Living by faith is also first mentioned in the Old Testament.
Habakkuk 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
John 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another
Deuteronomy 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Leviticus 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge , nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
To deny the instructions renders one unable to love God's way rather than our own interpretations of love. There are bunches of principles in the law in order for us to love God's way.
On to the fruit of the law. I agree with you in part that it is to point out sin. Therefore we can use it to bring the lost to Christ as Paul said to the Galatians for it is a schoolmaster that leads in that direction. On the other hand, it is good for educating the saved as Paul described of himself to the Romans.
Romans 7:12-14
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid . But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Christians can use it to die daily as Paul said about himself. The law should never be identified only with a carnal mind.
Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid : yea, we establish the law.
Romans 4:14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void , and the promise made of none effect:
Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be .
Yes study to show yourself approved by putting it all in perspective for "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" (2 Timothy 3:16) If we are truly saved we will want the reproof, correction, doctrinal profitability, and instruction in righteous living. To deny it means we really don't care enough to walk accordingly.
Living by faith is also first mentioned in the Old Testament.
Habakkuk 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
Speaking of the fruit of the spirit. Let's look at it more closely taking more scripture into account.
The Old Testament Fruit of the Spirit
Galatians 5:22-23 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
The reason that there is no law against the “fruit of the Spirit” is because it is the law and the prophets. These nine attributes are defined as a single fruit.
Matthew 12:25 (KJV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP]And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
The disciples who walked directly with Jesus didn't have a full understanding immediately, and gaining understanding in order to walk in the truth was and is imperative.
[h=4]John 16:12-13[/h] 12. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
As we continue in ALL of the word, and grow and mature, I believe that we are given more as we are able to bear it and to walk in it, and it's out with the old leaven, and in with the new. So I end this book with the New Testament “fruit of the Spirit.” Was this fruit something endorsed in the Epistles only, or was it God’s will from the beginning? Here’s your answer.
Exodus 20:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
1 Kings 1:40 (KJV)
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And all the people came up after him, and the people piped with pipes, and rejoiced with great joy, so that the earth rent with the sound of them.
Isaiah 12:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Therefore with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of salvation.
Exodus 18:23 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]If thou shalt do this thing, and God command thee so, then thou shalt be able to endure, and all this people shall also go to their place in peace.
Leviticus 3:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And if his offering for a sacrifice of peace offering unto the LORD be of the flock; male or female, he shall offer it without blemish.
Exodus 34:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,
2 Samuel 22:36 (KJV)
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Thou hast also given me the shield of thy salvation: and thy gentleness hath made me great.
Faith is/was ordained as an Old Testament principle to be kept as a priority in the New Testament.
Habakkuk 2:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
Psalm 45:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And in thy majesty ride prosperously because of truth and meekness and righteousness; and thy right hand shall teach thee terrible things.
Temperance is self-control as in “not to covet,” or “being drunk” “gluttonous” and soon. It is exhortation of the fruit of the spirit that I endorsed in the only negative, for covet is an attribute of the carnal, and the opposite is the attribute of the Lord’s Holy Spirit.
Exodus 20:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
Deuteronomy 21:20-21 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
We would never dream of stoning our own children for being drunk, or rebellious today, but we must still recognize this spiritual aspect. Any loving parent would desire to destroy those actions before they destroy their children. That’s what Jesus has done. God’s love wants us to be separated from those transgressions that separate us from Him. Parents that truly love their children will have the same desire.
Isaiah 32:15-17 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Until the spirit be poured upon us from on high, and the wilderness be a fruitful field, and the fruitful field be counted for a forest.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Then judgment shall dwell in the wilderness, and righteousness remain in the fruitful field.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
When we study the Mosaic Law we should concentrate on the spiritual meanings, relating those ordinances to the fulfillment of all things through Christ. If the law is spiritual, as Paul said, then we should always be searching for the spiritual meaning. Some will be confrontational saying that Christians need to make a choice between Paul and Moses. They were both called to do God's will in the time sequence God had determined. Why fight about what part of the Word of God is negated when none of it is? If God wanted it to be invalid, He wouldn't have preserved it. If one is going to follow Paul instead of Moses, then they should quit endorsing the Law in the physical realm, rather than the spiritual, because they actually are contradicting the very teachings from the man that they say they are following.
It's the carnal mind that concentrates on carnal thoughts, convincing itself of a righteousness that can be found in less than 100% of God. This frame of mind actually believes in itself as being more righteous than the Pharisees because they have determined the Mosaic Law as invalid, extinct, and negated through Christ. There is a rhetorical question that we should ask ourselves. Does the strength of the law expose the weakness of the flesh, or does the strength of the salvation expose the weakness of the law? One cannot have it both ways.
Romans 8:3-7 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
The Old Testament Fruit of the Spirit
Galatians 5:22-23 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
The reason that there is no law against the “fruit of the Spirit” is because it is the law and the prophets. These nine attributes are defined as a single fruit.
Matthew 12:25 (KJV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP]And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
The disciples who walked directly with Jesus didn't have a full understanding immediately, and gaining understanding in order to walk in the truth was and is imperative.
[h=4]John 16:12-13[/h] 12. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
As we continue in ALL of the word, and grow and mature, I believe that we are given more as we are able to bear it and to walk in it, and it's out with the old leaven, and in with the new. So I end this book with the New Testament “fruit of the Spirit.” Was this fruit something endorsed in the Epistles only, or was it God’s will from the beginning? Here’s your answer.
Exodus 20:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
1 Kings 1:40 (KJV)
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And all the people came up after him, and the people piped with pipes, and rejoiced with great joy, so that the earth rent with the sound of them.
Isaiah 12:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Therefore with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of salvation.
Exodus 18:23 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]If thou shalt do this thing, and God command thee so, then thou shalt be able to endure, and all this people shall also go to their place in peace.
Leviticus 3:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And if his offering for a sacrifice of peace offering unto the LORD be of the flock; male or female, he shall offer it without blemish.
Exodus 34:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,
2 Samuel 22:36 (KJV)
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Thou hast also given me the shield of thy salvation: and thy gentleness hath made me great.
Faith is/was ordained as an Old Testament principle to be kept as a priority in the New Testament.
Habakkuk 2:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
Psalm 45:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And in thy majesty ride prosperously because of truth and meekness and righteousness; and thy right hand shall teach thee terrible things.
Temperance is self-control as in “not to covet,” or “being drunk” “gluttonous” and soon. It is exhortation of the fruit of the spirit that I endorsed in the only negative, for covet is an attribute of the carnal, and the opposite is the attribute of the Lord’s Holy Spirit.
Exodus 20:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
Deuteronomy 21:20-21 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
We would never dream of stoning our own children for being drunk, or rebellious today, but we must still recognize this spiritual aspect. Any loving parent would desire to destroy those actions before they destroy their children. That’s what Jesus has done. God’s love wants us to be separated from those transgressions that separate us from Him. Parents that truly love their children will have the same desire.
Isaiah 32:15-17 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Until the spirit be poured upon us from on high, and the wilderness be a fruitful field, and the fruitful field be counted for a forest.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Then judgment shall dwell in the wilderness, and righteousness remain in the fruitful field.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
When we study the Mosaic Law we should concentrate on the spiritual meanings, relating those ordinances to the fulfillment of all things through Christ. If the law is spiritual, as Paul said, then we should always be searching for the spiritual meaning. Some will be confrontational saying that Christians need to make a choice between Paul and Moses. They were both called to do God's will in the time sequence God had determined. Why fight about what part of the Word of God is negated when none of it is? If God wanted it to be invalid, He wouldn't have preserved it. If one is going to follow Paul instead of Moses, then they should quit endorsing the Law in the physical realm, rather than the spiritual, because they actually are contradicting the very teachings from the man that they say they are following.
It's the carnal mind that concentrates on carnal thoughts, convincing itself of a righteousness that can be found in less than 100% of God. This frame of mind actually believes in itself as being more righteous than the Pharisees because they have determined the Mosaic Law as invalid, extinct, and negated through Christ. There is a rhetorical question that we should ask ourselves. Does the strength of the law expose the weakness of the flesh, or does the strength of the salvation expose the weakness of the law? One cannot have it both ways.
Romans 8:3-7 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Absolutely you are. By highlighting words I don't and omitting the "if" statement preceding it, you completely change the meaning. I dont believe I better do it all. The only way I would have to do it all is if I were trusting in it for my salvation, which I am not.
Fortunately God never set the law up so that you had to do it all in order to be saved. Apparently, that is something you want it to say so that it makes your argument sound better. And apparently, you'd like me to be saying the same thing in order to make your argument sound better, too.
Fortunately God never set the law up so that you had to do it all in order to be saved. Apparently, that is something you want it to say so that it makes your argument sound better. And apparently, you'd like me to be saying the same thing in order to make your argument sound better, too.