IN HIM WE HAVE REDEMPTION THROUGH HIS BLOOD.,

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JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
2,295
167
63
#21
Just worse and worse! I can’t believe anyone could follow a loser like this!

So, if you feel tempted, just pretend you aren’t. If you sin, just deny it. Because hey, you were made perfect on your day of justification, way back when, so it is just the enemy lying to you???

. . . .

Just one last note, Christ Consciousness comes DIRECTLY out of the New Age Movement. I was involved in it in the 1970’s, and when preachers adopt these terms, either they are ignorant of the baggage and what it means in the New Age movement, or they are tapping into the forces of Hindu evil. The New Age Movement is basically out of Hinduism/Buddhism. Everyone is trying to escape the wheel of karma, and to attain Christ Consciousness, so they will go to be with Brahma, dissolve into the eternal ocean or whatever.

I wonder if in fact, Joseph Prince is a former Buddhist who is using these terms and Jesus as a way off the wheel of karma? At any rate, this is pure new age lies, AGAIN.


From the Prince devotional:

My friend, when you fall into sin, God wants you to be Christ-conscious. This means that when you have missed it, God wants you to be conscious that in Christ, you have forgiveness of sins through His blood. God wants you to be conscious that Christ was wounded and bruised for your sins, and that the chastisement for your peace was upon Him. (Isaiah 53:5)


Hmmm . . . that sounds NOTHING like New Age, nor does it sound like Buddhism. Prince defines what he means clearly - that when you sin, "God wants you to be conscious that in Christ, you have forgiveness of sins through His blood."

Prince isn't preaching New Age, and he was never a Buddhist. Prince is doing what he does - point people to Christ, Christ's Work, and who we are in Christ. He builds up and edifies the believer, equipping them about who GOD says they are in Christ so that they CAN overcome sin in their lives.

Angela, I haven't been here in a long time (we moved our large family 900 miles - I'll be unpacking boxes for a year, ha), but the contrast of how you used to post and how you post now . . . it makes me sad. Where I used to see a heart for God and a love for people . . . well, I don't see that now. I'll just leave it at that.

I pray that you will begin to trust God enough to trust that He will do the work He's promised to do in the hearts of believers by His grace (Titus 2:11-14, Philippians 1:6). All Joanie is doing (and JP, as well) is pointing people to Christ and building up believers about who they are in Christ, and then trusting that God will do His work in them. And I am thankful for her faithfulness to do so in the face of such unfair and unkind criticism.



-JGIG
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#22
How sad, you isolate two verses in Romans 3, which in fact are about the state of ALL of us - sinners saved by grace. We are justified by faith. That does not mean "made perfect." Rather, it means a right standing before God.

" -namely, the righteousness of God through the faithfulness of Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. 24 But they are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus." Romans 3:23-24


You also forget so much more of the other aspects of soteriology, namely the sanctification process of transformation. What does John say, in context, in 1 John ?

"Now this is the gospel message we have heard from him and announce to you: God is light, and in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we say we have fellowship with him and yet keep on walking in the darkness, we are lying and not practicing the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as he himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. 8If we say we do not bear the guilt of sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 But if we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous, forgiving us our sins and cleansing us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar and his word is not in us." 1 John 1:5-10

"
(My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin.) But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous One,
2 and he himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for our sins but also for the whole world." 1 John 2:1-2

These verses acknowledge the reality that we do sin, after we come to Christ. And we need to seek God for forgiveness, but also for help to overcome sin.

Unless this whole thing is about the nonsense of having sinless perfection? Because you can't have it both ways. Either you sin, and you need to confess your sins as a believer, or you are perfect, which means like God! And I have yet to meet this person on this earth. The closer you get to God, the more you become aware that you have a long way to go, in bearing fruit, in being transformed, and certainly in not sinning. That is truth! Not the lies of Joseph Prince, hypergrace and the Word Faith movement!

I don't think a Christian can grow and be transformed with this ridiculous proposition that you just need to pretend it didn't happen. That is a door for more sin to enter in. For the conscience to become hardened. For sin to take control.

Oh, some of you are just walking so close to Jesus, that will never happen? Well, my Bible in the above Scriptures certainly says we do sin. Are we sinners? Not sure I would use that term for a believer. But are we perfect? Not till Jesus returns.

I think it is wonder to affirm God's love and saving grace in our lives. But, not at the expense of confession of sins. Because, if you can't acknowledge your sin, deny it, refuse to work on it, you are stuck in a religious, false rut of terrible significance and importance. Because God will turn his back on you. And all those religious experiences, well, if they don't align with Scripture, then they are just experiences, and ones that feel great, even profoundly, but they draw you away from Jesus and walking with the Holy Spirit.

The good news is if you repent of this sin sickness and denial, and confess your sins, he will not only forgive you, but he will help you overcome the areas that are stumbling blocks in your life. How tragically sad to be saved, but so far outside the revealed will of God for us, as we walk with Christ.
I remember the first time you took just a few lines that I wrote and made this long post about what I said. Well, you just did it again.

Only my husband knows what I'm thinking without telling him. Vice versa.

God never tirns His back on me. Or any of His own.

Head knowledge puffs up. That's all I am saying.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#23
Amen JGIG!!!

You have been sorely missed!!!


From the Prince devotional:

My friend, when you fall into sin, God wants you to be Christ-conscious. This means that when you have missed it, God wants you to be conscious that in Christ, you have forgiveness of sins through His blood. God wants you to be conscious that Christ was wounded and bruised for your sins, and that the chastisement for your peace was upon Him. (Isaiah 53:5)


Hmmm . . . that sounds NOTHING like New Age, nor does it sound like Buddhism. Prince defines what he means clearly - that when you sin, "God wants you to be conscious that in Christ, you have forgiveness of sins through His blood."

Prince isn't preaching New Age, and he was never a Buddhist. Prince is doing what he does - point people to Christ, Christ's Work, and who we are in Christ. He builds up and edifies the believer, equipping them about who GOD says they are in Christ so that they CAN overcome sin in their lives.

Angela, I haven't been here in a long time (we moved our large family 900 miles - I'll be unpacking boxes for a year, ha), but the contrast of how you used to post and how you post now . . . it makes me sad. Where I used to see a heart for God and a love for people . . . well, I don't see that now. I'll just leave it at that.

I pray that you will begin to trust God enough to trust that He will do the work He's promised to do in the hearts of believers by His grace (Titus 2:11-14, Philippians 1:6). All Joanie is doing (and JP, as well) is pointing people to Christ and building up believers about who they are in Christ, and then trusting that God will do His work in them. And I am thankful for her faithfulness to do so in the face of such unfair and unkind criticism.



-JGIG
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
303
83
#24
Amen JGIG!!!

You have been sorely missed!!!


Amen she sure has. We need to pray for JGIG and family and their move of 900 miles! AND for all the unpacking that she will be doing. I just moved 40 miles this past Spring and upstairs is still not unpacked yet and that is only 1 person. If I remember correctly., JGIG has a whole passel of kids and a husband. Would love to get an update on how her son is doing. Love and miss you JGIG. Good to see you too UnderGrace!
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,780
2,943
113
#25

Hi Angela
Just re posting to clarify you read my answers to your last 2 posts. Didn't want you to miss it or think I was ignoring you.

You mean those articles by Wommack? Nope, I won’t give them the time of day. Sorry, he may have even said something true, but I don’t greet false teachers like Wommack. Besides, I am sure all he does is support your unscriptural beliefs.

Ok, I scanned them, and he has no support for what he is saying. He is presenting opinion as fact. And while we are positionally, and eternally right before God, our minds and bodies are not! That is what needs to be transformed.

Therefore I exhort you, brothers and sisters, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a sacrifice—alive, holy, and pleasing to God—which is your reasonable service. 2 Do not be conformed to this present world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may test and approve what is the will of God—what is good and well-pleasing and perfect.” Romans 12:1-2[FONT=&quot]

God would not be commanding us to be transformed, if we were already sinless and perfect. (Transformed is in the imperative or command tense!) It really boggles me people can be so naive about the entire soteriological process. Sanctification is the entire walk from when we are first justified, to when Jesus returns and we are glorified.

This doctrine makes glorification synonymous with justification, and skips the entire walk with Jesus, being changed and growing mature. This false doctrine is leading people astray. We need to develop our conscience under the leading of the Holy Spirit, and part of that is confessing our sins.

And please write in your own words, next time you reply to my posts, ok? This copy and paste thing really worries me. You write quite well, there is no reason for you not to be posting in your own words! Instead, you let your new age “Masters” do the talking for you. I would be much more inclined to read and answer what YOU write, instead of these false teachers! And, my hope would be, as you searched out replies to counter what I have said, (and that would be great!) you will start to see how wrong they are. Instead, you take these shallow, unsubstantiated opinions, and post them as gospel. That is the biggest tragedy of all!
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joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
303
83
#26


This is the maybe the 4th time this has been posted. But I'll do it again just for you Angela.
:confused: In light of your post above., you couldn't have read this. I've asked you before to read what IS posted. Not to read into what you "think" is posted. You may find we have some things in common. And you may not be so annoyed. I truly hope so. May God bless and comfort you this evening.




Angela., if only everyone was the same as you… If only everyone thought the same as you and wrote the same as you and walked the same., and liked the same preachers you liked… and ate the same food you like and wore the same style clothes you like… and saw the world and God though your eyes… If only… then the world and this chat site would be a better place….if only…


But that just is not reality because thankfully we are not all the same. We don’t all think or live the same because God created us differently for a good reason.



I and many other Christians do not come to the same conclusions about life for the believer as you have nor about the Bible as you have. For instance this verse and those below;



Therefore, since we have been declared righteous by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,” Romans 5:1



Note., the Bible says we “HAVE” peace with God. Not; we will have peace with God. We are righteous in Christ 100% and therefore are called to walk without any condemnation Rom.8:1 Because now the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set us free from the law of sin and death.



And so we walk out those truths “by grace through faith”

Note; that is the exact same way we got saved in the first place….by grace through faith. Eph.2:8-9


And so that is how we walk out our Christian lives…. By grace through faith. So yes., we have been made perfect IN Christ and are called to see ourselves IN HIM at all times. When the devil comes and tries to tell us we are sinners guilty and condemned., we can say…

“God has declared me righteous and not guilty and also a Son and fellow heir in Christ., so get lost! I’m the righteousness of God IN Christ you have no power over me devil.” And he will flee. That is called “resisting” and we resist by knowing who we are IN Christ., He did it all. We cannot resist any other way.



Salvation is not a 3 step process. We don’t get saved on the installment plan. Jesus said it is finished. He who has the Son has life… he who has not the Son of God has not life but the wrath of God abides on them…John 3:36



The impurities of sin have all been totally dealt with when Jesus saved us. Now we walk it out “by grace through faith” We walk out what Christ has worked IN us. We do not work “for” those things. We already have them. We work OUT those things.




Jesus IS our sanctification… 1 Cor.1:30-31 But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus; who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification and redemption.

That just as it is written; LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD.
For I am determined to know nothing among you except Jesus and Him crucified.



Our spiritual growth comes as we walk according to the Spirit and grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. We learn about Jesus and what Jesus has done in us. We do that by hearing and hearing and hearing continually the Word of God and grow and maturing in the faith. We have His seed in us and it grows into maturity like an oak tree. The oak tree oak grows into what it is.




Dear friends, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet been revealed. We know that whenever it is revealed we will be like him, because we will see him just as he is.” 1 John 3:2



Note; we are God’s children NOW. Not- we will be His children., we NOW His children, sons and daughters of the Most High. When we get our glorified bodies we will no longer have to walk by faith to see this. We won’t have to resist the devil so he will flee from us.



When we get our glorified bodies we will then be able to see Him without the eyes of faith. But today we are called to walk by faith and not by sight Heb.11:1



Today we have some great and precious promises to live by before we get our glorified bodies and I’m learning about them by walking by grace through faith. I believe we have many gifts in the Atonement that you don’t agree with Angela. One of them is healing. And as we walk out our sanctification., we learn about those promises and acquire them by grace through faith.



Being conscious of Jesus is not a new age term simply because you lived it out in the 1960s Angela. I’m not going to allow the new age movement to highjack words that are perfectly normal to use. Having a Christ consciousness instead of a sin consciousness is a very good thing. Same with “meditation” The Bible used the word “meditation” long before there even was a new age movement that found the word “cool” Meditating on God’s Word is all over the place in the Bible especially in the Psalms. I do not see anything new age about any of the terms.



I put my words all over the forums in different ways than you all the time and will continue to do so as I certainly hope you will do too Angela. I’m sure you won’t always agree with me nor I with you but that is why this is called the Bible study forums. We each come here and share what we have learned and studied in the Bible. We are also allowed to share what we have heard from different preachers or teachers or books or devotionals that bless us and help us grow in the faith. That’s why I come here.



I’m not going to conform to Angela’s Ideas of the Bible because I’m not Angela. I’m Joanie. And the Lord has shown me how to “Work out my own salvation” not Angela’s or anyone else’s Phil.2:12-13


“So then my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

For it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.”



And also, we have to read these verses (as we must all verses in the Bible) in the proper interpretation. We don’t work “for” our salvation… we work “from” our salvation. We don’t fear God any longer but we are serious minded and reverent as we walk by faith and not by sight., As we are learning about His grace and love for us. Grace teaches how to do this. We and learn by grace through faith in Him…. because perfect love casts out fear. 1 John 4:18-19



There is no fear in love (dread does not exist) but full-grown (complete perfect) love turns fear out of doors and expels every trace of terror! For fear brings with it the thought of punishment, and (so) he who is afraid has not reached the full maturity of love (is not yet grown into love’s complete perfection. We love Him, because He first loved us.