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E
I'm with you babe. 
If we are wrong....we get raptured. All good.
If pre-tribbers are wrong, they're faith evaporates and they go to hell in a handbasket.
I guess we'll have to wait and see who right.
If we are wrong....we get raptured. All good.
If pre-tribbers are wrong, they're faith evaporates and they go to hell in a handbasket.
I guess we'll have to wait and see who right.
You should say, If your right. we both get rpatured at the end. If your wrong. We both get raptured at the beginning.
The deviding factor if one gets raptured at all is the gospel. 4 runner is trying to earn his salvation. I take it you are too? If you are. maybe neither of you will get raptured at all??
I would be worried about making it to heaven/. Not when your gonna get there!!
Jesus said those that falsely believe the Lord has delayed His coming are n danger of loosing their faith. The reason someone would believe that Jesus has delayed His coming is because of the false pretrib doctrine.
Matthew 24
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 24
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
If you have acted on Romans 10:9, you are saved. Period. If you are saved, nothing can separate you from the love of God in Christ.
The pretrib doctrine is not false. You do not understand this administration of grace we are now living in. It had a distinct beginning on the day of pentecost, it will have a distinct end at the rapture, which will occur before the trib starts. We are living the mystery, a time that was not known about until God made it known to Paul. -Nobody- knew. Now, both Jews and gentiles make up the church of the body of Christ, which did not exist in the gospels. Matt 24 and Revelation is for Israel, not Christian believers.
If you want to understand how God deals with Christians, read the church epistles, Romans through Thessalonians, not the gospels. The gospels deal with Christ, who came to Israel. He was a minister to the circumcision. The things He spoke in the gospels concerning the end times were to Israel, and they will come to pass, for Israel, after this time of the age of grace ends, at the rapture.
Christians, through God's grace, have been delivered from the tribulation. Thank God! You seem to think it will be a time of trial. Do you have any idea of the things that will happen? Over 50% of the earths population will be killed. 100# hailstones, the sun dimming, then overheating. All sea life dying. Water turning to blood. Men wanting to die, but not able to. I thank God Christians will not have to go through it!
But even if you are right, and we are to go through it, a Christian is still saved, and has eternal life waiting for him.
The pretrib doctrine is not false. You do not understand this administration of grace we are now living in. It had a distinct beginning on the day of pentecost, it will have a distinct end at the rapture, which will occur before the trib starts. We are living the mystery, a time that was not known about until God made it known to Paul. -Nobody- knew. Now, both Jews and gentiles make up the church of the body of Christ, which did not exist in the gospels. Matt 24 and Revelation is for Israel, not Christian believers.
If you want to understand how God deals with Christians, read the church epistles, Romans through Thessalonians, not the gospels. The gospels deal with Christ, who came to Israel. He was a minister to the circumcision. The things He spoke in the gospels concerning the end times were to Israel, and they will come to pass, for Israel, after this time of the age of grace ends, at the rapture.
Christians, through God's grace, have been delivered from the tribulation. Thank God! You seem to think it will be a time of trial. Do you have any idea of the things that will happen? Over 50% of the earths population will be killed. 100# hailstones, the sun dimming, then overheating. All sea life dying. Water turning to blood. Men wanting to die, but not able to. I thank God Christians will not have to go through it!
But even if you are right, and we are to go through it, a Christian is still saved, and has eternal life waiting for him.
who are these in heaven?
Revelation 6
9When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. 10They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servantsc and their brothersd should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.
and why do they have to wait? because their brothers have to get through thr trib either alive or by the sword.....
THEN
what comes next in the sequence?
12When he opened the sixth seal, I looked, and behold, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth, the full moon became like blood, 13and the stars of the sky fell to the earth as the fig tree sheds its winter fruit when shaken by a gale. 14The sky vanished like a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. 15Then the kings of the earth and the great ones and the generals and the rich and the powerful, and everyone, slavee and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, 16calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, 17for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?”
WRATH AND JUDGMENT.
Revelation 6
9When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. 10They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servantsc and their brothersd should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.
and why do they have to wait? because their brothers have to get through thr trib either alive or by the sword.....
THEN
what comes next in the sequence?
12When he opened the sixth seal, I looked, and behold, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth, the full moon became like blood, 13and the stars of the sky fell to the earth as the fig tree sheds its winter fruit when shaken by a gale. 14The sky vanished like a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. 15Then the kings of the earth and the great ones and the generals and the rich and the powerful, and everyone, slavee and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, 16calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, 17for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?”
WRATH AND JUDGMENT.
(John 16:33) These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
(Romans 5:3) And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
(Romans 8:35) Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
(Romans 12:12) Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;
(2 Corinthians 1:4) Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.
(Revelation 1:9) I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Dunno 'bout you but I'm preparing for tribulation.
Imagine how quickly you will renounce Christ at the slightest hint of hardships?
(Romans 5:3) And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
(Romans 8:35) Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
(Romans 12:12) Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;
(2 Corinthians 1:4) Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.
(Revelation 1:9) I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Dunno 'bout you but I'm preparing for tribulation.
Imagine how quickly you will renounce Christ at the slightest hint of hardships?
Every one of those verses concerns tribulation, problems, persecutions that we endure in this life. None of them refer to THE tribulation, the wrath, the time of Jacob's trouble, that Israel will go through.
2 Tim 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
What is your basis for that statement?
2 Tim 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
What is your basis for that statement?
Hi zone,
First, they aren't in heaven, but that's a topic for another thread.
As it says, they are the ones who "had been slain for the word of God". They are people who were killed earlier on in the trib for their stand for God. They didn't crater and were killed for it.
Yes, at that point in time the trib is not over yet. There is more to come. More will be killed.
...but Christians are saved from the wrath to come.
First, they aren't in heaven, but that's a topic for another thread.
As it says, they are the ones who "had been slain for the word of God". They are people who were killed earlier on in the trib for their stand for God. They didn't crater and were killed for it.
Yes, at that point in time the trib is not over yet. There is more to come. More will be killed.
...but Christians are saved from the wrath to come.
So you believe that if you go through the trib, none of the events will affect you?
Our enemy is people who do not have the truth, but think they do, and promote their error as truth. This forum is loaded with 'em. I'm not saying I know all the answers (far from it), but I do know that many here do NOT have the answers.
Our enemy is people who do not have the truth, but think they do, and promote their error as truth. This forum is loaded with 'em. I'm not saying I know all the answers (far from it), but I do know that many here do NOT have the answers.
You, I and everyone on this earth must make the decision on whether to take the mark of the beast when it is issued. This is the start of tribulation.
This valuable information is for us, for those following the Lamb. The world will be decieved but we have been given insight to prepare and make the right choice. None of us will escape tribulation unless we are dead before then. There will even be some who will live through tribulation, and persevere all the way till Christ returns...and these ones who remain alive have passed the test and refused the mark.
Christ only comes as a theif in the night to those who have fallen asleep, not to those who are prepared and understand the order the events to come.
Christ can even come as a thief in the night if we suddenly meet death and die in our sins. Because then it's too late.
This valuable information is for us, for those following the Lamb. The world will be decieved but we have been given insight to prepare and make the right choice. None of us will escape tribulation unless we are dead before then. There will even be some who will live through tribulation, and persevere all the way till Christ returns...and these ones who remain alive have passed the test and refused the mark.
Christ only comes as a theif in the night to those who have fallen asleep, not to those who are prepared and understand the order the events to come.
Christ can even come as a thief in the night if we suddenly meet death and die in our sins. Because then it's too late.
E
Tell that to those Christians living in the 1/3 of the earths surface who are killed by fire from heaven. Or the many Christians who would die of massive starvation and disease and by the sword. SOme people just don't get it! Even the Israel will not be protected. They were warned to run to the mountains and hide.