Iron chariots

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Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,076
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#41
This is quite possible, but why does it not say that? It says because of iron chariots (MSS) or because of Rehab(LXX). Not "because of unbelief".

Doing well, thanks :)
By reading through ending chapter of the preceding Book of Joshua and the introduction? Chapter 2 in the Book of Judges:you will begin to see (After Joshua's death) the people of Israel (the next generation) move away from God.

Judges begins a four hundred+ year process known as the fall of a nation and giving us the four progressive steps that made it happen. The first two we see beginning in Chapter 1 is "the failing to fight the enemy properly" and "the sparing of the enemy". God specifically told Joshua not to spare the enemy and this generation is forgetting this.

It is also interesting that while God was with Joshua and Judah, He did not command the armies Himself.

During the 6 day war for Jerusalem in 1967, some Israelis (two to three) were pinned down by a company of enemy soldiers. All of a sudden, the enemy soldiers laid down their weapons and surrendered. They later confessed that they has saw an overwhelming of number soldiers and had thought they were surrounded. Here God did not help physically but rather mentally(passively). Could this be the way he helped Israel in Canaan?????

Also, the failure of the Israelites to defeat the Philistines in the Valley may have been brought about by a Prophecy of repeating History, that Judges so accurately does even though it is not known as a Book of Prophecies does.

The Philistines in the five coastal cities, because of the enormous amount of sea trade were able to make use of IRON which they used on their chariots. If verse 19, we see Israel could not defeat them in the Valley. Was this because of their inability fight against a greater technology than they had (tried and failed) or did they see this and decide not to fight them or was it a prophecy?????????

Under Samuel, Saul and David...Israel had Iron progressively (David had carbonized Iron (steel)) with which he finally defeated the Philistines completely and he did this in the mountains not in the valley.

IF in verse 19 they had driven out the Philistines like they did those in the mountains cities, could/would David have slew Golliath?

Now for the second progressive step, we see that inverse 21, Benjamin did not drive out the Jebusites for Jerusalem. David again had to do this at a later time. God did not stop them from failing to drive them completely out here either.

In fact, even in Joshua's times, Jericho was destroyed but the people were not driven out of Canaan or killed even though God told them to. Another city beside the ruins was built, named Jericho and that today is the stronghold for the PLO.

These failures in Judges, you will find have far reaching prophecies in today's middle east and Israel. All their enemies except may be Egypt should have been killed or driven out of the land God gave them. They did not and are having to deal with them today. It is ironic that that Israel neighbors that hate them so are the future generations of those in the Book of Judges past.

I guess I did regress, it is still too long. Sorry about that.
 
H

HisHolly

Guest
#42
No problem. I have nothing I'm holding against you.
I get what your saying and I have no problem with saying yes I was abrupt I'm sorry but the only reason I was, was because someone was abrupt with me in post #25 and everyone has there own way of expressing them selves and I may not come across as being polite all the times either and vise versa, human language is a complex structure made from complex human minds.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#43
During the 6 day war for Jerusalem in 1967, some Israelis (two to three) were pinned down by a company of enemy soldiers. All of a sudden, the enemy soldiers laid down their weapons and surrendered. They later confessed that they has saw an overwhelming of number soldiers and had thought they were surrounded. Here God did not help physically but rather mentally(passively). Could this be the way he helped Israel in Canaan?????
Is not this some kind of an urban legend? We all know how "brave" are arab armies.
Also, there is no reason God would help atheist Israel in the 20th century. The book of Judges shows why - unbelief :)

Also, the failure of the Israelites to defeat the Philistines in the Valley may have been brought about by a Prophecy of repeating History, that Judges so accurately does even though it is not known as a Book of Prophecies does.

The Philistines in the five coastal cities, because of the enormous amount of sea trade were able to make use of IRON which they used on their chariots. If verse 19, we see Israel could not defeat them in the Valley. Was this because of their inability fight against a greater technology than they had (tried and failed) or did they see this and decide not to fight them or was it a prophecy?????????
Well, the Bible says "they were unable" so it seems they tried and failed, to me. But the decision not to fight would be also possible, I think...

Under Samuel, Saul and David...Israel had Iron progressively (David had carbonized Iron (steel)) with which he finally defeated the Philistines completely and he did this in the mountains not in the valley.

IF in verse 19 they had driven out the Philistines like they did those in the mountains cities, could/would David have slew Golliath?

Now for the second progressive step, we see that inverse 21, Benjamin did not drive out the Jebusites for Jerusalem. David again had to do this at a later time. God did not stop them from failing to drive them completely out here either.

In fact, even in Joshua's times, Jericho was destroyed but the people were not driven out of Canaan or killed even though God told them to. Another city beside the ruins was built, named Jericho and that today is the stronghold for the PLO.

These failures in Judges, you will find have far reaching prophecies in today's middle east and Israel. All their enemies except may be Egypt should have been killed or driven out of the land God gave them. They did not and are having to deal with them today. It is ironic that that Israel neighbors that hate them so are the future generations of those in the Book of Judges past.

I guess I did regress, it is still too long. Sorry about that.
Interesting, why do you think that today's middle east is so important to be even in the prophecies? What is happening down there, except of the ever-repeating fights between cultures and religions?
 
Nov 1, 2016
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#44
Don't forget...

Iron is also representative of Daniel's Fourth Kingdom.

We are entering into it now.

Do we not drive around in Iron Chariots?

Iron is unique in that it is Magnetic and represents Electromagnetism (i.e. Technology) in Scripture.

Thus, the Iron mixed with Clay is a representation of Technology mixed with DNA...

 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,076
59
48
#45
Is not this some kind of an urban legend? We all know how "brave" are arab armies.
Also, there is no reason God would help atheist Israel in the 20th century. The book of Judges shows why - unbelief :)

From what I can find, the story is true? The six day war was the partial fulfillment of the Ezekiel prophecy about the return of Jerusalem to Israel. While it appears Israel is Atheistic, they are partially blinded and have been for some time by God himself.


Well, the Bible says "they were unable" so it seems they tried and failed, to me. But the decision not to fight would be also possible, I think...

Either way, the future prophecy of David slaying Goliath may have had something to do with this part. Rem, God did not interfere when they even in Joshuas's days did NOT completely kill or drive them out. This was so after his death and the downfall of a nation .

Trofimus, when I look at the Bible, I try to look at it from the viewpoint that God already knew what was going to happen and how it affected the future. All his actions are driving events toward the final White Throne Judgement


Interesting, why do you think that today's middle east is so important to be even in the prophecies? What is happening down there, except of the ever-repeating fights between cultures and religions?


The never ending fight is between Satan and God's people (us). Israel is God's timepiece and it has so much to do with the middle east and that piece of land God gave Abraham. All prophecy of the Bible pirouettes around the middle east and eventually ends there.
I hope this helps?
 
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Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
#46
Don't forget...

Iron is also representative of Daniel's Fourth Kingdom.

We are entering into it now.

Do we not drive around in Iron Chariots?

Iron is unique in that it is Magnetic and represents Electromagnetism (i.e. Technology) in Scripture.

Thus, the Iron mixed with Clay is a representation of Technology mixed with DNA...

That was my thoughts exactly!
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#47
From what I can find, the story is true? The six day war was the partial fulfillment of the Ezekiel prophecy about the return of Jerusalem to Israel. While it appears Israel is Atheistic, they are partially blinded and have been for some time by God himself.
What sources about the armies having hallucinations did you find? And what prophecy do you have in mind, specifically?

When in the Bible God was helping/returning Israelites back to their land while they were against God or even atheists?
 

Agricola

Senior Member
Dec 10, 2012
2,638
88
48
#48
Humans were more technologically advanced than we give credit, sounds like the chariots with iorn were tanks, especailly if that was given to them by demons disguised as visitors from space, which is not that far fetched as there is plenty of evidence of ancient astronauts and planes. You may mock, but then that is the same mocking from athiests when we point out dinosaurs were alive with humans and the evidence of pictures and so on ancient structures and manuscripts etc.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#49
Humans were more technologically advanced than we give credit, sounds like the chariots with iorn were tanks, especailly if that was given to them by demons disguised as visitors from space, which is not that far fetched as there is plenty of evidence of ancient astronauts and planes. You may mock, but then that is the same mocking from athiests when we point out dinosaurs were alive with humans and the evidence of pictures and so on ancient structures and manuscripts etc.
Demons are not astronauts and they do not need planes. They also cannot construct anything material for they are only spirits.
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
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#50
"The LORD was with the men of Judah. They took possession of the hill country, but they were unable to drive the people from the plains, because they had chariots fitted with iron."
(Judges 1:19)

What do you think of this?

Judges 1:16The descendants of the Kenite, Moses’ father-in-law, went up from the city of palms with the sons of Judah, to the wilderness of Judah which is in the south of Arad; and they went and lived with the people. 17Then Judah went with Simeon his brother, and they struck the Canaanites living in Zephath, and utterly destroyed it. So the name of the city was called Hormah. 18And Judah took Gaza with its territory and Ashkelon with its territory and Ekron with its territory. 19Now the LORD was with Judah, and they took possession of the hill country; but they could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley because they had iron chariots. 20Then they gave Hebron to Caleb, as Moses had promised; and he drove out from there the three sons of Anak. 21But the sons of Benjamin did not drive out the Jebusites who lived in Jerusalem; so the Jebusites have lived with the sons of Benjamin in Jerusalem to this day.

I remember reading that the children of Israel couldn't drive out the the enemy because of unbelief. It's always been unbelief from the start..... otherwise one would have to say God couldn't deliver them from iron chariots, & that's just plain wrong.
 

Agricola

Senior Member
Dec 10, 2012
2,638
88
48
#51
Demons are not astronauts and they do not need planes. They also cannot construct anything material for they are only spirits.
Oh ok then if you say so.
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,076
59
48
#52
Humans were more technologically advanced than we give credit, sounds like the chariots with iorn were tanks, especailly if that was given to them by demons disguised as visitors from space, which is not that far fetched as there is plenty of evidence of ancient astronauts and planes. You may mock, but then that is the same mocking from athiests when we point out dinosaurs were alive with humans and the evidence of pictures and so on ancient structures and manuscripts etc.

Funny you said that,,, because Israel's main battle tank is named the Merkava which is (Hebrew: מרכבה) , "chariot")
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,076
59
48
#53
What sources about the armies having hallucinations did you find?
Encounters - The Six Day War | Christian Forums

Miracles in the Six-Day War: Eyewitness Accounts - A7 Exclusive Features - News -

Here are two of many........ I was in the military in Europe at the time of the 6-day War. We were on high alert and being a Mash Unit, it was a pretty sure event that we would go. We were already packed. Then stop orders were received. If you have ever been in the military, you know that news (sometime good and sometimes bad) but pretty reliable travels fast. We almost immediately heard that God (via hallucinations) had helped Israel win. The story, I told you of was one of those that stuck in my mind. Now, this is not to say they were real but we were certainly glad God was with us all. You see (unlike todays US gov) at that time we believed in Israel, individually and as a nation.

There are many articles concerning these hallucinations.

While you are looking some of them up. Look up the Miracles/Hallucinations that are happening in Iran causing a 19% increase in Saved Christians. Believe It or Not!


And what prophecy do you have in mind, specifically?
Ezekiel's 430 Days...(Ezekiel 4:) which goes along side of Daniels 70 weeks. (Daniel 9: 24-27)

When in the Bible God was helping/returning Israelis back to their land while they were against God or even atheists?
As you see in the Ezekiel prophecy, God punished Israel with exile for 2520 years exile through Diaspora.

As you see in the Prophecy of Ezekiel, it has been fulfilled both times. Glory to God.


Hope this helps! :)
 
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