Is Catholicism Christian? Are Catholics Saved?

[Inquistor]

The doctrine of Purgatory is based on the Jewish doctrine of Gehenna!

S.C.J. FAQ: Section 12.8. Jewish Thought: What do Jews say happens when a person dies? Do Jews believe in reincarnation? In hell or heaven? Purgatory?

"However, for Jews, gehenna—while certainly a terribly unpleasant place—is not hell. The majority of rabbinic thought maintains that people are not tortured in hell forever; the longest that one can be there is said to be 12 months. It is a spiritual forge where the soul is purified for its eventual ascent to Gan Eden [Heaven], and where all imperfections are purged. [In this sense, it is somewhat similar to the Roman Catholic purgatory, however the time period has a definate maximum]. Gehennom (lit: the valley of Hinnom, in Jerusalem; i.e. hell) is the sinner's experience in the afterlife. In other words, it's the same "place" as gan eiden (lit: the garden of Eden; i.e. heaven) — it's the perspective of the individual that makes it one or the other."

​https://www.google.com/search?sourc...4...0j0i131k1j0i13k1j0i8i7i30k1.0.pBE5LHm1nlw

 

[Laish]

Are you stupid?

Come on . J is not stupid . He is a sharp one . I don’t agree with the guy many things ( including here )but let’s not question his intelligence. Let’s pound the facts not the table.
Blessings
Bill

 

[Jackson123]

Simply EXPLAIN the mention of FIRE in 1 Corinthians 3:15, while the INSPIRED SCRIPTURE STILL says "he shall be SAVED!"

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

this verse not talking about purgatory, fire in purgatory is to purify sin, fire in chorinthian is to test the work

test the work and purge has 2 different meaning.

verse 15 If any man's work :chose a or b : who burn in this verse,
a; man
b or man's work.

ON purgatory who is be burn?

a. Man

b. Man's work.

by answere those question we know that chorinthians not talking about purgatory,

also in corinthians is a man's work not burn he get reward. In purgatory concept, after Being oN fire they Will go to heaven.

the verse not detail what is a man's work, but I believe It mean evangelism result. Example corinthians is Paul evangelism result.

God Will put Corinthians oN fire, by persecution If they Deny Jesus, mean they burn, Paul still go to heaven but No reward.

 

[beta]

If you're not born again, you are not God's.

Christians don't have this in the right Order !

BEfore being Born comes BEgetting....AND Developing INto the Being to be born !!!

few if any make a distinction between the state of GEstation and being Born...yet there most certainly is ! 'Spiritually it is a whole new concept because we are 'consciously aware from the time of BEgettal and already growing in God's knowledge....BEFORE being born perfected into His Kingdom.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Inquistor,

You can throw a living being into the lake of fire and they will die.

Hello Deade,

It is important to understand that according to scripture life and death are both states of on-going conscious existence. Therefore, death is not a state of non-existence. For example, regarding those who worship the beast, his image and receive his mark, it is said that the smoke of their torment will rise up forever and ever. And they will have no rest day or night. Needless to say, in order for one's smoke to ascend up forever and every, that person would have to exist while being in torment in the flame. The other words in the context "no rest day or night" would also support on-going conscious torment. For one would have to exist in order to be able to experience said torment day and night.

In addition, we also have the event of the rich man and Lazarus which reveals two men of whom scripture says both died and were buried, yet their spirits were conscious and aware in Sheol/Hades, Lazarus being in a place of comfort/paradise and the rich man being in that place of torment, the two places being separated by a great chasm. That rich man will remain there until after the millennial period and will be resurrected out of Sheol/Hades to stand before God at the great white throne judgment. Anyone's name not found in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire where they will continue to exist in their resurrected bodies in torment in flame. This is the scriptural truth of the matter.

Being separated from God and punished in the lake of fire is what the state of death is.

 

[beta]

Hello Deade,

It is important to understand that according to scripture life and death are both states of on-going conscious existence. Therefore, death is not a state of non-existence. For example, regarding those who worship the beast, his image and receive his mark, it is said that the smoke of their torment will rise up forever and ever. And they will have no rest day or night. Needless to say, in order for one's smoke to ascend up forever and every, that person would have to exist while being in torment in the flame. The other words in the context "no rest day or night" would also support on-going conscious torment. For one would have to exist in order to be able to experience said torment day and night.

In addition, we also have the event of the rich man and Lazarus which reveals two men of whom scripture says both died and were buried, yet their spirits were conscious and aware in Sheol/Hades, Lazarus being in a place of comfort/paradise and the rich man being in that place of torment, the two places being separated by a great chasm. That rich man will remain there until after the millennial period and will be resurrected out of Sheol/Hades to stand before God at the great white throne judgment. Anyone's name not found in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire where they will continue to exist in their resurrected bodies in torment in flame. This is the scriptural truth of the matter.

Being separated from God and punished in the lake of fire is what the state of death is.

Afraid you are not quite right...spiritually or scripturally 'life and death can be 'in two separate states 'dead OR alive....not 'on-going-consciousness only.
Does not scripture talk about perishing ? that is NOT a conscious state !
The reason their smoke goes up for ever or they are tormented for ever is....because the wicked are sharing the same fire as was prepared for the devil and his angels who are not burnt-up like Humans who are mortal.
To perish is to be 'as if you had never been ! Obed v 16; Mal 4v3 or be ashes under the feet of the Saints.

 

[jaybird88]

Come on . J is not stupid . He is a sharp one . I don’t agree with the guy many things ( including here )but let’s not question his intelligence. Let’s pound the facts not the table.
Blessings
Bill

i dont know, i do dumb things all the time. im always walking into rooms and forgetting why i went in there. i remember when i was a kid, my mamaw came to visit, drove past our house, and then drove another 150 miles (all the way into Oklahoma) before she realized she had past us. so thats the kinda people i come from.

INQ already mentioned Gehenna which rabbis been teaching for a while. the Essenes of Qumran wrote on soul purification after death. so the Jews and Catholics didnt just pull this idea out of thin air it had been around since at least 200 BC - 50 AD.
the canon scriptures tell us many times we are judged after death and held accountable. so where exactly do we go to serve that judgment?

 

[TMS]

Act 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

 

[mailmandan]

Simply EXPLAIN the mention of FIRE in 1 Corinthians 3:15, while the INSPIRED SCRIPTURE STILL says "he shall be SAVED!"

The meaning of Paul’s words are crystal clear: God will test the believers’ works and reward them; some will lose their rewards because their works were of no value. The idea of purgatory (expiation of sin by personal suffering) is absent in this passage.

Paul says nothing about souls suffering in fire; it simply tests the quality of their works. The fire in 1 Corinthians 3 simply reveals the quality of every man’s works. The fire of judgment simply shows whether the works are valuable or not, but it does not change their quality. "Each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is." The text is silent about purification of the soul from venial sins or the satisfaction of temporal punishments.

The Catechism’s claim that 1 Corinthians speaks of a cleansing fire is simply false.

*Referring to 1 Corinthians 3:15, a Catholic Bible commentary plainly admits, "There is no reference to purgatory."

*Indeed, this passage says nothing about spiritual cleansing; Paul teaches about that subject elsewhere in the same letter. “You were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God” (1 Corinthians 6:11).

*References: [1] Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 1031. [2] Rev. William G. Most. Purgatory. [3] Murphy O'Connor, J. "The First Letter to the Corinthians," The New Jerome Biblical Commentary, ed. Raymond E. Brown, Joseph A. Fitzmyer, Roland E. Murphy (Bangalore: Theological Publications in India, 2000), p 802.

The blood of Christ and not the fires of a nonexistent purgatory, cleanses us from all sin (1 John 1:7).

As Mike Gendron pointed out in his article: Clearly, the context of this verse is the testing of a man's works by fire. The works that survive are the ones done for the glory of Christ and are called gold, silver and precious stones (Ephesians 2:10). All the other superfluous works are burned in fire and are called wood, hay and stubble. It is not man's sins that are being purged, it is man's spurious works that are being burned and destroyed.

 

[mailmandan]

People can be eternally saved separate from what they are taught from a denomination like Catholicism. So you will get plenty of saved Catholics.

I was a Roman Catholic who came to get saved IN SPITE of what Roman Catholicism taught about the plan of salvation and NOT BECAUSE of what they taught.

Also, Catholic teaching does have some of the same beliefs about who God is..what the trinity is and would probably even have being saved by faith in Christ.

Roman Catholicism is correct about the Trinity, yet they teach a "different" gospel. Instead of saved by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9) Roman Catholicism teaches salvation by grace through faith (their version of faith) "infused" with works. I was recently in a discussion with a Roman Catholic who claims that the Roman Catholic church does not teach salvation by works, then afterwards, he said this below:

We ARE saved by faith - as long as you properly define "Faith". Faith is NOT simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES: Being water baptized, eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass, works of mercy and charity, obeying his commandments etc..

His argument about faith being "defined as" and INCLUDES these works listed above and is just sugar coated double talk and equates to salvation through faith (their version of faith) + works. Roman Catholics seem to think by not teaching that justification comes through perfect obedience to the law that they are not teaching salvation by works, yet they still claim that we are saved by accomplishing this check list of works above. Faith is faith and works are works. Faith is not defined as works.

But there is a difference between being saved.. and then actually following God's Word. I wouldn't call Catholicsm as following God's Word.

There are certain churches (like Roman Catholicism) that teach a false gospel, which will lead all of those to their doom, who strictly follow the teachings of those churches. But those who believe the true gospel of grace, and not just whatever their church teaches, are saved regardless of the group with which they are associated. Conversely, one's church may preach the true gospel of grace. If one believes the gospel, then one has eternal salvation (Romans 1:16). But if one does not believe it, then one is lost even though the official teaching of one's church is correct.

The rituals and ceremonies and the way they venerate saints and Mary just isn't real Christianity.

Amen!

 

[mailmandan]

Jews were teaching purgatory hundreds of years before rome got involved in the faith.

Yes, they did, though they did not call it purgatory. Jews do believe in a purification which takes place after death. When a Jewish person's loved one dies, it is customary to pray on his behalf for eleven months using a prayer known as the mourner's Qaddish (derived from the Hebrew word meaning "holy"). This prayer is used to ask God to hasten the purification of the loved one's soul. The Qaddish is prayed for only eleven months because it is thought to be an insult to imply that the loved one's sins were so severe that he would require a full year of purification.

Does that sound legitimate to you? Should we trust what the Bible teaches or should we trust in those who have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge? For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own righteousness, they did not not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. (Romans 10:1-4). *Sounds similar to Roman Catholicism.

Do you believe in purgatory? You have already made it clear that you don't believe in the Trinity.

 

[mailmandan]

one he cared enough about to call His begotten Son.
12 more will one day judge the world.

Yet, you DO NOT believe that JESUS IS GOD.

 

[garee]

What CHURCH was Jesus referring to in the following verse, and WHAT YEAR was Jesus talking about? Perhaps 1881?

Matthew 16:18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome "it".

He was not referring to any church he was referring to a law of faith in respect to the word it by which any man can understand God not seen the faith principle that the Catholic must ignore in favor of walking or understanding by that seen. Yoiu could say the reforming authority of God that restores the errors of men.

2Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight

It’s the Catholics who like the Pharisees with Sadducees that require a sign as an image before they will believe.

The catholic denomination is the sect that must pretend the kingdom of God is of this world and therefore it does come by observation. This opposes the word of God as do many of their doctrines of what they must believe worship able or venerable men.

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

If you are looking to compare yourself to a historical (bible history) as God’s interpretation of one who was there . Then it would be after the Nazarene sect or called the Way, the first mentioned denomination on this side of the cross. The Catholic denomination is not listed in God’s interpretation the Bible.

Sometimes it’s the little word like it that carries all the authority. As it is written makes the devil flees.

The idea of picking a word like it and blindly attaching it like pinning a tail on the donkey is not how we understand the discourse.

Verse 17 is just as much part of the discourse as verse 18 which you offered with no explanation as to why you think the it is Peter and not the final authority of God that unlocks the gates of hell called the gospel .

And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Mat 16:17-18

No transfer of ownership of it between verse 17 and 18. Again we walk by faith the unseen. Not Peter the flesh and blood denie,r seen. That's proven in verse 22 and 23 . Jesus forgave Peter of his blasphemy

Note... (Purple in parenthesis) my added comment.


Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for “flesh and blood” (Peter) hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.( Its heaven the Christians home, not Rome)

2Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight


The it in verse 18 that you offered above is the gospel...... it without flesh and blood Peter unlocks the gates of hell and binds the devil . The it in verse 17 represents the same one spirit of faith(Christ’s) according as it is written by which we can believe God not seen and not man (Peter the denier seen )

2Corinthians 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;

Again I emphasize It as it is written represents his unseen authority as a revelation from God. Not from Peter .That would be turning things upside down just as with the Pharisees with Sadducee's.

The thing formed (the church ) does not say to Him who formed it God has no understanding to offer so he needs our flesh and blood..as if he was served by the clay he forms Christ in.

How in the world a person could say the it was flesh and blood Peter and not it as the revelation from God in heaven. It remains a mystery at least to me. And I certainly am not any scholar.

Why Were 14 Books Removed from the Bible in 1881? | Rocking God's House

I have seen some try and defend those books and even use them. It’s easy to see by the kind of language they are not of God. Its like putting a square peg in a round hole. It would easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle. It’s why the Protestants removed them.

Is there a mention in those 14 books that prove Peter is the it that the gates of hell could never prevail against and that’s why the Protestants rejected them? Which book and chapter of the 14 shows its flesh and blood that does revels the will of God ? Jesus said His flesh profits for knowing .

Is it Peter flesh and blood that does? Again chapter and verse?

 

[Ernie07]

Simple we are to "fear" and "trust" only God/Jesus not any person or religion upon this earth.

Hi Joefizz,

Thanks for responding. Your answer confuses me though so I'm hoping you can clear a few things up for me.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I hear most on this forum in essence saying, "I know the truth because I read the Bible and the Holy Spirit allows me to interpret it correctly". And that works today because personal interpretation is an accepted practice, but it never was in the early Christian Church (first 800 years). Many of the beliefs we've been discussing (praying to the dead, the Eucharist, Mary Mother of God and ever virgin, confession of sins to a priest, authority, and others) were all documented beliefs by the early Christian Church. No one denied these beliefs. So they must have interpreted the Bible differently than many on this thread. It's just a historical fact and people on this site seem to turn a blind eye to this. Why is that?

And if you say the early Christian Church was wrong, how can you not say the Church for its first 1500 years fell into blasphemy? And if the Christian Church fell into blasphemy how can you not say that Jesus failed to protect His Church (for it took Him 1500 years to finally get it right)? And if you then have to admit that Jesus failed how can you say that He is God for God can't fail? If you're being intellectually honest how does your entire belief system not come crumbling down due to the gap between your version of the truth and that professed by the early Christian Church?

Jesus' truth can't change. Truth today (present) was truth yesterday (past) and will be the truth tomorrow (future). But, your belief system doesn't take the past into account at all. It's as if Christians over time and what they believed to be the truth means nothing to you. It's all about your defined version of the truth today and what was the truth yesterday is meaningless. How isn't that the case? And why is that?

And if you could answer all of my questions I'd really appreciate it. It seems like people on this site get really emotional rather than answering specific questions so I'm hoping you will be able to.

Thanks.

-Ernie-

 

[Ernie07]

Inquistor,
It is really pointless to discuss the errors of the Catholic Church with committed Catholics who are also apologists for their false Christianity. Indeed it is a sheer waste of time and effort.

On the other hand, if you can handle the truth, then that is another matter. So you want PROOF that Purgatory is PURE FANTASY? Why don't you invest in a copy of Strong's Exhaustive Concordance (KJV) and go through all the "P's". You will simply discover that there is no such word in the whole Bible.

In fact there is no such concept in the Bible. There is Sheol-Hades, Gehenna- the Lake of Fire, and Tartarus -- the prison of the evil angels from the time of Noah. Even the Eastern Orthodox Church does not buy this Purgatory nonsense.

"...Eastern Orthodox Bishop Kallistos Ware acknowledges several schools of thought among the Eastern Orthodox on the topic of purification after death...he writes that 'Today most if not all Orthodox theologians reject the idea of Purgatory, at least in [Roman Catholic] form.' "

http://www.religioustolerance.org/purgatory6.htm

Hi Nehemiah,

Why does it bother you that the word "Purgatory" isn't in the Bible but then not be equally bothered that the word "Trinity" isn't used in the Bible? Doesn't it bother you that the very essence of our faith is not mentioned even once? Why leave arguably the most important belief in the Christian faith up for interpretation? Because of not being ultra clear about the concept of the Trinity there was significant disagreements among early Christians. And the Church needed to formally declare that what it believed was that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit was 1 God in 3 persons. Why not just make it more clear? Because of the lack of clarity in some beliefs (even the most important one) is why Jesus created a Church that would be protected from error and would interpret the truth correctly. Surely not a Church where everyone can interpret and believe as they feel the Holy Spirit calling to them. Jesus is about truth, not chaos.

If in fact the Orthodox Church no longer believes in Purgatory then they no longer teach the truth on that topic...unless they have a new meaning for why it is a good and wholesome thought to pray for the dead (2 Mach 12:46). No need to pray for those in heaven or hell so where are they who we are praying for? That one little verse in the Bible is why the Reformers removed the 7 books in the Bible. Imagine you explaining away Purgatory if you had to contend with that verse? Luther thought the same thing. He even tried to remove James because of "faith without works is dead" and add the word "alone" to saved by faith in Romans, but that was too much for even him. His belief system is based on a lie that has been perpetuated for over 500 years.

Prove me wrong.

-Ernie-

 

[Ernie07]

The Great Commission

MarK 16:14 Afterward he appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at table, and he rebuked them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who saw him after he had risen. 15 And he said to them, "Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation.16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover."
19 So then the Lord Jesus, after he had spoken to them, was taken up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God. 20 And they went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them and confirmed the message by accompanying signs.

These are the last words spoken to his discipiles before he ascended to heaven. I believe that the only churches that practice what they were commissioned to do here are found in the southern Apallations.

Just thought I'd let you know where I stand on the first church.

Good point, Billyd. Many on this site say they follow the Bible and use verses to back up their belief. I respect that, but if they were intellectually honest, they would then have to admit that unless they were able to do these things mentioned they aren't really believers. That's what the Bible says, but then the game of "use only Bible verses that align with my beliefs" is begun. It will be spun with "context" or "interpretation" or simply ignored because it doesn't fit their belief system as they turn to other verses that enable them to believe as the Holy Spirit "tells them" personally.

Thanks for pointing this verse out.

-Ernie-

 

[notuptome]

It usually takes a lot to get me confused ... but I must admit that I am confused right now! I think most Christians believe that there is no escape from the fires of hell ... right? So if that is, in fact the case, and there is no purgatory, can you please explain the entirety of the following verse?

1 Corinthians 3:15 - If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

http://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/3-15.htm

Simply EXPLAIN the mention of FIRE in 1 Corinthians 3:15, while the INSPIRED SCRIPTURE STILL says "he shall be SAVED!"

Works do not get one into heaven. It is in the verse that the mans works are put through the fire to test them. Works done for self or mans approval are not done in the Holy Spirit and as unto God.

The man himself is not put through the fire, the fire may consume all his works but he is still saved and entering heaven with Jesus.

Please know this takes place at the judgment seat of Christ not the Great White Throne judgment. None who stand before the Great White Throne judgment are entering heaven and all are judged and cast into the lake of fire.

1 Cor is judgment of Christians for what they have done since saved. Rewards or loss of rewards are in 1 Cor. Rev is judgment of the condemned and there is only final condemnation in the lake of fire awaiting them.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Ernie07]

People can be eternally saved separate from what they are taught from a denomination like Catholicism. So you will get plenty of saved Catholics.

Also, Catholic teaching does have some of the same beliefs about who God is..what the trinity is and would probably even have being saved by faith in Christ.

But there is a difference between being saved.. and then actually following God's Word. I wouldn't call Catholicsm as following God's Word.

The rituals and ceremonies and the way they venerate saints and Mary just isn't real Christianity.

Hi Wattie,

I'm assuming by "rituals and ceremonies" you're speaking of things like praying to the dead, the Eucharistic, believing in Mary as Mother of God and ever virgin as a few examples. And I can respect that your belief is that those aren't "real Christianity". It is based on your interpretation of certain Bible verses and I can appreciate that we will agree to disagree on the interpretation of those verses.

But, what if there were no Christians that believed like you for the first 1000 years of the Church? What if your beliefs would have had you excommunicated, thrown out of the Church, and no longer called a Christian until you renounced your errors? Let's say the questions I just posed were hypothetical...what would your response be? Now ask yourself why would my answer change if my questions were based on the truth?

-Ernie-

 

[notuptome]

The Great Commission

MarK 16:14 Afterward he appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at table, and he rebuked them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who saw him after he had risen. 15 And he said to them, "Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation.16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover."
19 So then the Lord Jesus, after he had spoken to them, was taken up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God. 20 And they went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them and confirmed the message by accompanying signs.

These are the last words spoken to his discipiles before he ascended to heaven. I believe that the only churches that practice what they were commissioned to do here are found in the southern Apallations.

Just thought I'd let you know where I stand on the first church.

Most folks quote Mat 28 as the great commission. There is considerable doubt as to the manuscript authority of the long ending of Mark. Maybe old Gerome doctored the text to all the verses you cite.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Ernie07]

No. Choliciam is not "Christian", yes there are "Saved" catholics. Why they want to remain catholic is beyond me... but that is between them and G-d and not them and me thank G-d!!!!

I'm a Catholic because Jesus' truth is the most important thing to me. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the truth isn't important to those that aren't Catholics. It's just that the truth from 33 A.D. until now is what is important to me. It's not just about me now and my personal relationship with the Lord and my interpretation of the Bible and my beliefs...I've heard so much "me" talk from those on this site.

The fact that no one seems to care about what Christians believed in earlier times or being able to validate that Jesus did indeed build and protect His Church is evidence that it is a very "me-centered" belief system. What does the Bible say to me? How is the Holy Spirit guiding me? What is my interpretation of the Bible? The fact that their interpretations and beliefs would have had them labeled a heretic in 800 A.D. is completely lost to them...because it has no bearing on me.

Rather, Catholics care about Christianity and the truth during all times. What Christians believed in 300, 600, 1200 A.D. is vitally important to a Catholic for an unbroken chain of beliefs is the only way to prove Jesus protected His Church at all times. What those believed in the early Christian Church I believe today as a Catholic and that shouldn't be a shock for Jesus said He would protect the truth. For the gates of hell to not prevail over His Church the truth must be taught at all times. There can not be a gap for even a day, yet alone 1500 years, where the truth is not taught by His Church for if even 1 person is lost due to erroroneous teaching then the gates of hell will have prevailed.

I'm a Catholic because what I believe would have had me classified as a Christian today, 200 years ago, 500 years ago, 1200 years ago, nearly 2000 years ago...and I can prove it. There are historical records of what the early Christian Church believed and I believe as they believe. I've finally figured out why that isn't a key factor in the belief system of non-Catholics...because it's not about "me".

-Ernie-