Is God, defined by your definition?

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Jun 30, 2011
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#1
I think that people want to say that they do not believe this, but they act contrary. They say that He is worthy of all Glory, and He is worthy to be submitted too, but they worship a lesser version of Him

God in His attributes are not comparable to man and the most 'moral man'

People want to say that God is love, amen, but it's not the love that we define as love

but It is loving for God to send people to Hell, an atheist would argue contrary and most Christians would agree

If God is God, then He is completely free of us, and beyond us. God is a free agent, not us.


If someone says God has elected some to be saved and some to be lost, people start saying all sorts of crazy things based on their view of God that should conform to their morality. They even go as far as to say teaching this is not Biblical, and heretical with the rest of the doctrines of Grace.

What it sounds more like is that they are taking a high and lofty view of God, and minimizing Him to fit their morality, with no view to His transcendence, His imminence and our guilt, our treason, our blasphemy against a Holy Holy Holy God


*** I'll be honest, but the study of this has led me to more praise and adoration for God then I have ever had in my Christian walk, and it just obliterates any thought I had of my own merit, and grips my heart onto Christ *** but then to some of you I am a false prophet and twist scripture
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#2
Do you have any children?
Are they 'elect'?


I'm not saying election/predestination is not true...it just takes on a tougher meaning with unsaved children.
 
Jun 30, 2011
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#3
Do you have any children?
Are they 'elect'?


I'm not saying election/predestination is not true...it just takes on a tougher meaning with unsaved children.
I think it does take on a tougher meaning with unsaved children - all the more to raise them in the fear of the Lord, and be dependent on the Lord, and be watchful in prayer. Count the cost of having children

We shouldn't change an aspect of God to make us feel better about unsaved children, or our family. God is Just and we will see it in the end
 
O

overcomer2

Guest
#4
I have not been on this website long. Are you a Prophet?
I agree with what you said in your thread about the Lord. This also sums it up some. Christians forget we serve a God who also hates. Jacob have I loved and Esau have I hated. This was before the child was born.
 
Jun 30, 2011
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#5
I have not been on this website long. Are you a Prophet?
I agree with what you said in your thread about the Lord. This also sums it up some. Christians forget we serve a God who also hates. Jacob have I loved and Esau have I hated. This was before the child was born.
not a prophet - just want to walk in light of Scripture on this earth
 
S

Sanashankar

Guest
#6
I think that people want to say that they do not believe this, but they act contrary. They say that He is worthy of all Glory, and He is worthy to be submitted too, but they worship a lesser version of Him

God in His attributes are not comparable to man and the most 'moral man'

People want to say that God is love, amen, but it's not the love that we define as love

but It is loving for God to send people to Hell, an atheist would argue contrary and most Christians would agree

If God is God, then He is completely free of us, and beyond us. God is a free agent, not us.


If someone says God has elected some to be saved and some to be lost, people start saying all sorts of crazy things based on their view of God that should conform to their morality. They even go as far as to say teaching this is not Biblical, and heretical with the rest of the doctrines of Grace.

What it sounds more like is that they are taking a high and lofty view of God, and minimizing Him to fit their morality, with no view to His transcendence, His imminence and our guilt, our treason, our blasphemy against a Holy Holy Holy God


*** I'll be honest, but the study of this has led me to more praise and adoration for God then I have ever had in my Christian walk, and it just obliterates any thought I had of my own merit, and grips my heart onto Christ *** but then to some of you I am a false prophet and twist scripture
What u said is true...u might be called as a false prophet, a heretic, a liar....it is not ur fault...you just said the truth..the world wont accept the truth. as the scripture say, not all will be able to accept the deep truths of God. I guess the first mistake people do is that they think with their "carnal mind" that god is the way they think they are.They want to see their enemies to be destroyed so they think God will destroy their enemies. Simple!!!

Some are saved and some are lost...but we forget that Jesus came to save the LOST not the saved.

Luke 19:10 "For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the LOST.”
 
O

overcomer2

Guest
#7
me too!!!!
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#8
I think that people want to say that they do not believe this, but they act contrary. They say that He is worthy of all Glory, and He is worthy to be submitted too, but they worship a lesser version of Him
I agree, and there is a reason. They make God who they want him to be, not who he says he is..
God in His attributes are not comparable to man and the most 'moral man'
agree, Even Adam in his moral right state was not comparable to God.

People want to say that God is love, amen, but it's not the love that we define as love
again agree. it is the love as he said is love.

Love your enemy, Love people who would kill you. Love people who will NEVER accept you. This is the Love God commands his children to have for all people. God would also have this love.

men love based on what they can get out of it.


but It is loving for God to send people to Hell, an atheist would argue contrary and most Christians would agree
yes. But not because he wanted to. He made a way out for all men. but he did not force anyone to recieve him, He offers them hope. but lets them chose.. In doing so, he has proven to the world and ALL creation in heaven and earth what true love is.
If God is God, then He is completely free of us, and beyond us. God is a free agent, not us.

true. but then why did God make us, what was his purpose? what was his desire?



If someone says God has elected some to be saved and some to be lost, people start saying all sorts of crazy things based on their view of God that should conform to their morality. They even go as far as to say teaching this is not Biblical, and heretical with the rest of the doctrines of Grace.

it goes both ways, I believe God did this. this is not the question. the question is what is this election based on..


What it sounds more like is that they are taking a high and lofty view of God, and minimizing Him to fit their morality, with no view to His transcendence, His imminence and our guilt, our treason, our blasphemy against a Holy Holy Holy God

lol.. I don;t believe this. does anyone else??



*** I'll be honest, but the study of this has led me to more praise and adoration for God then I have ever had in my Christian walk, and it just obliterates any thought I had of my own merit, and grips my heart onto Christ *** but then to some of you I am a false prophet and twist scripture
I feel the same way. Funny how we can have differing views on this. yet we both feel the same about God. how can that be??
 
Jun 30, 2011
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#9
God has made all things to show His Glory, and for His glory
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#10
I have not been on this website long. Are you a Prophet?
I agree with what you said in your thread about the Lord. This also sums it up some. Christians forget we serve a God who also hates. Jacob have I loved and Esau have I hated. This was before the child was born.

Welcome to the website. Hope you find joy and peace.

Also. Hope you have an open mind. and do not take things personally as some do. We like to discuss our beliefs.. And some people take this personal

God did not Hate a kid number one. Read malachi. God loved jacob (isreal) and he hated Esau (edom) it was not speaking about the kids, but about the nations these kids produced with their offspring.

Also not in the hebrew language, Hate does not mean the same it does in the english. I can love you and my family. but not the same, just by the word you would not be able to tell.

The word hate in the hebrew also means "love less" God hates no one, But he loves some more than he does others.

Why? Love is relational. Those who have a personal relationship with God is most definately going to have more Of gods love for them, because there is a relationship.

Those who do not. God does not HATE., he loves them also. Just not as much. because there is no relationship.

Also, examples of hate being used not to hate.

in the NT, God said to love our parents and spouses. And children, Yet he also said plainly, if we do not hate them, we will suffer.

Now God did not contradict himself. He used the same term. Which means love less. If we do not love God more than our family. We will suffer in being used by God.

Hope this helps. and again, Welcome!
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#11
God has made all things to show His Glory, and for His glory
Yep he did.

Imagine the universe in eternity future. Who could ever do what satan did again? and question the love of God.

He loves a creation which rebelled against him, Which chose to be his enemy, and not depend on him.

Yet he became man and died for them, Even the ones he KNEW would reject him..

No greater love has ANY man than he lay his life for the one he loves. God loves ALL his creation. And all who are in it! No one can question his love!
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#12
I think it does take on a tougher meaning with unsaved children - all the more to raise them in the fear of the Lord, and be dependent on the Lord, and be watchful in prayer. Count the cost of having children

We shouldn't change an aspect of God to make us feel better about unsaved children, or our family. God is Just and we will see it in the end
But what if our children aren't one of the elect?
 

mystdancer50

Senior Member
Feb 26, 2012
2,522
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#13
Good thread. :)

I am ever aware of my morality and purity. I once asked God if I was going to extreme in the call He had placed on my life for radical purity. He replied, "Even your most radical attempt at purity would not compare to Jesus' purity." Does that make sense? Though the world may look at the call God has placed on my life as extreme and radical, I know that Jesus has called me to be set apart (in truth He has called all of us to this, but few will accept it), to be radically different than the world around us.

One of the red flags of our walk with Christ is if the world is okay with it. Does that make sense? Salvation is to appear foolish to the world, but wise to those who are with Him. Nowadays, it looks foolish because we do foolish things, such as protesting funerals and Disneyland, hatemongering and belittling others, sinning and excusing it while condemning those around us, saying hateful and evil and cruel things, things the worldly won't even utter, while within the walls of church. But, that was not the foolishness spoken of.

We are called to more than this life offers, called to be in the world but not of the world. I think most are blending in with their culture way too easily. When I reach heaven and see Jesus face to face, I want Him to tell me, "Well done, Julie. You have run the race and run it well. Enter in." I don't want Him to tell me that He never knew me.

My motivation is to be like Christ, to please Him and honor Him, to live the life He has for me to live, and to be set free from sin and compromise and darkness. To have life and have it abundantly. To be holy as He is holy.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#14
But what if our children aren't one of the elect?
Then everything you do to try to raise them to see the love of God and accept him would be useless. Might as well not bother..

If God chose them, they will come no matter what you do. so why go through all the pain??
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#15
Then everything you do to try to raise them to see the love of God and accept him would be useless. Might as well not bother..

If God chose them, they will come no matter what you do. so why go through all the pain??
'Cause it's our bounded duty as parents?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#16
'Cause it's our bounded duty as parents?
same could be said as Children of God. It is our duty to go to the whole world and make disciples..

thus same concept.
 
Jun 30, 2011
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#17
Then everything you do to try to raise them to see the love of God and accept him would be useless. Might as well not bother..

If God chose them, they will come no matter what you do. so why go through all the pain??
You are thinking as a human here - The same argument can be used of someone who says, I will just wait till I am on my deathbed, then accept the Lord

we don't know who is elect, and we don't know the time that God will save - just be faithful to the Gospel and who God is - raising how you are instructed by God's work
 
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Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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#19
Yahweh is so far bewond our limited understanding, anytime one tries to put their own reasoning into the mix they will certianly fail, IMO one must simply read Yahweh's words and bind them to ones heart, no matter if one understands why certian things are so or not.

Isayah 29:16, "Truly your turning things upside down will be esteemed as the potter's clay; for will the work say of him who
made it; He did not make me? Will the thing that is formed say of him who formed it; He has no understanding?"

Ezekiyl 18:29, "Yet the house of Israyl says; The way of Yahweh is not equal. O house of Israyl, are not My ways equal? Are not your ways unequal?"

I think the biggest one is the "why do bad things happen to good/innocent people?" The world has gone away from yahweh and His Instructions thus the curse is thriving.

Endtime prophecy:

Isayah 24:4-6, "The earth mourns and fades away, the world mourns and fades away, and the haughty people of the earth languish. The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants of it, because they have transgressed the Laws, changed the ordinance, and broken the everlasting covenant. Because of this, the curse has devoured the earth, and they who dwell therein are desolate; therefore, the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left."

If people took Yahweh's word for this instead of placing their own understanding here I believe many would repent. Many people dont want to be obedient so they "make a god" for themselves that is lawless and doesnt care or hold one responsible for their actions, but this is not so.

Mattithyah 16:27, “For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His Malakim; and then He will reward every man according to his works.”

Yahchanan (John) 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected in order to be damned."

Acts 17:30-31, “In the past Yahweh winked at such ignorance, but now He commands all men everywhere to repent! For He has appointed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness, by a Man whom He has ordained; and He has given evidence to everyone by raising Him from the dead.”

Romans 2:4-11, “Or do you despise the riches of His kindness, forbearance, and longsuffering; not realizing that Yahweh’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? But according to your stubborn and impenitent mind you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of Yahweh’s wrath, when the righteous judgment of Yahweh will be revealed; when He will reward each one according to his works: to the ones on the one hand, who, by patient persistence in doing righteousness, seek for glory, honor and immortality, He will give eternal life. But to the ones on the other hand, who are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, He will give indignation and wrath.” Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man who does evil: to the Yahdai(Jew) first, and also to the Greek (Gentile) But glory, honor, and peace to every man who works righteousness: to the Yahdai first, and also to the Greek. For there is no respect of persons with Yahweh.”

2 Corinthians 5:10, “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Messiah, that each one may receive his reward according to what he has done in the body, whether righteous or evil.”

Colossians 3:24-25, “Knowing that from Yahweh you will receive the reward of the inheritance; for you serve Yahshua the Messiah. But he who does wrong will receive the reward for the wrong he has done, and there is no respect of persons.”

1 Kepha (Peter) 1:17-18, “And if you call on the Father, Who without respect of persons judges according to each man’s work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your sojourning here in reverence. Knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, such as silver or gold, from your idolatrous way of life handed down to you by tradition from your fathers.”

Mattithyah 15:3, “But Yahshua answered, and said to them: and why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?”

Revelation 20:12-13, “And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before Yahweh. And the books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and Death and Sheol delivered up the dead which were in them. And they were judged, every man, according to their works.”

Revelation 22:12, “And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be.”

Mattithyah 7:21-23, "Not everyone who says to Me; Teacher! Teacher! will enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh, but only he who does the will of My Father Who is in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day; Teacher! Teacher! Have we not prophesied in Your Name, and cast out demons in Your Name, and in Your Name performed many wonderful works? But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

Iniquity is Word #458 from word #459, Greek Dictionary, Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, meaning not subject to (Yahweh's) Laws, transgressor.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
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#20
Grace does not run through the bloodline.
Agreed, but the unsaved bloodline runs through the heart.
All I am saying is that sometimes we glibly toss around these truths in a rather callous way.