Is keeping the Commandments and Laws of God Needed for Eternal Life?

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Eccl12and13

Guest
#1
Hopefully some have read the Posts "What Law is This Paul Speaks of". And more importantly you have read the (2) posts after, "Answer to the OP Which law is this Paul speaks of Parts 1 & 2", which answers the question of the first post, "What Law is This Paul Speaks of?"

If you have read them, you now understand that Paul speaks of (2) sets of laws throughout his writings. After reading the post hopefully all that read understand that Paul uses the phrases 'works and deeds of the law' NOT to mean that ALL of God's laws have been nailed to His cross. As a matter of fact, Paul teaches all that he preaches to to KEEP God's laws, as he did himself to the best of his abilities.

Now on to a topic that most will not agree with but is a doctrine that is supported by scripture.

My question to the forum, as is indicated by the title; "Is keeping the Commandments and Laws of God Needed for Eternal Life?"

Now this is a very simple question, that if thought about logically, has an answer that is just as simple.

So again I ask...."Is keeping the Commandments and Laws of God Needed for Eternal Life?

Just as with my other posts....let's toss this topic around for awhile...pray and ask God for wisdom and understanding....and let's study and present God's word as proof and not emotions, to come up with a sound biblical doctrine. And let's remember to use ALL of Gods word....

2 Tim.3
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

That means we cannot toss some scriptures if it seems to contradict others; all MUST be used and work together.

"Is keeping the Commandments and Laws of God Needed for Eternal Life?"


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Oct 31, 2011
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#2
I don’t think the question is simple at all, at least I don’t think it can be answered with a simple yes or no.

We are saved by grace, not by what we do. God is Holy, we are not, and no doing right on our part is going to make us holy. God accepts us through grace. That would say no, keeping the commandments has nothing to do with our eternal life.

Gal_3:10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not observe and obey all the things written in the book of the law."

But there is a LOT more to it. Something very special happens at the time we accept God so God accepts us. It is almost like being born into a special family. We become a different person, one who has the Holy Spirit within him. The Holy Spirit cannot live within a thief or a liar. We have forgiveness of our sins available to us as followers of the One True God, so we are not condemned always for breaking the law. But if we ARE liars, or thieves, etc, in our hearts, then the Holy Spirit cannot live in us.

1Co_6:9 Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! Fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, sodomites,
1Co_6:10 thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbers--none of these will inherit the kingdom of God.
Rom_3:31 Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.
Rom_6:15 What then? Should we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!
Rom_7:12 So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and just and good.

So it is true that the law does not give us eternal life, it is also true that if we will not listen to God’s law, we will not inherit. Some say that all the written law should be ignored and only the law of love obeyed. But the written law explains the law of love, if we follow it we follow the written law. Perhaps not the rituals given as a help to obedience of the law of love, Paul, especially, explained that.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#3
While we are not saved by works Jesus said this.
John 3:15 KJV
(15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

If Christ is in us then it should result in us being commandment keepers.

 
P

pitts288

Guest
#4
If you guys have read my post, you know that I strongly stand up for the ten commandments/law of love. Now with that being said, the commandments are not what gives us eternal life. The commandments are a glimpse into eternal life. The commandments saves us from the consequences of our sins in the world today and opens up the door for us to have a more abudant life here and now, and they do also save us from the lake of fire, but eternal life is for all...jesus already paid for that. He said if I'm lifted up I WILL DRAW ALL MEN TO ME!

Think about it like this:
God is a perfect god
God has all power
God created a perfect plan of salvation
And a perfect plan of salvation would give life and love to ALL!
GOD IS LIFE
GOD IS LOVE
GOD WANTS LIFE AND LOVE FOR ALL
AND GOD GETS WHAT HE WANTS.

I KNOW THIS GOES AGAINST WHAT YOU MAY BELIEVE BUT PLEASE TRY AND TAKE THE TIME TO CONSIDER IT. We are aloud to search out the ways of god.
THE MEAN GOD STUFF IS JUST SYMBOLIC.

THE HOLY SPIRIT/FIRE cleanses us of our sin if we except Jesus today... the holy spirit/lake of fire will just cleans those who don't choose Jesus in this life. BUT JESUS ALREADY PAID FOR THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD. PRAISE GOD
 
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pitts288

Guest
#5
Scripture tells us if we believe in jesus, we will have eternal life. But it means we have eternal life the very moment we accept jesus, because we will then no longer choose to sin. Sin is what took life from us, so when we stop sinning in this life, we experience that eternal life in this life. Eternal life is life without sin.
 
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Eccl12and13

Guest
#6
Scripture tells us if we believe in jesus, we will have eternal life. But it means we have eternal life the very moment we accept jesus, because we will then no longer choose to sin. Sin is what took life from us, so when we stop sinning in this life, we experience that eternal life in this life. Eternal life is life without sin.
Does the bible anywhere from Gen. to Rev. say that the ONLY thing a person needs to obtain eternal life is faith? Will faith ALONE allow a person to receive eternal life? Does faith ALONE give salvation? You will find not one place in ALL of the bible where it states such a doctrine. As a matter of fact....scriptures tells us it takes MORE than just faith in order to receive salvation/eternal life.

You quoted ;
"...we have eternal life the very moment we accept Jesus..."
and I must ask...what do you mean by the term 'accept Jesus', and...what brings a person to the point where they accept Jesus according to scriptures?

You quoted that;
"...Sin is what took life from us..."
, to which I must ask the following...What is sin and what life was taken from us. Would it be eternal life you are speaking of? Because if sin, which is the breaking of God's laws, is what caused us to have eternal life taken away from us, does it not make sense that if we were do our best NOT to break those laws that eternal life would be once again available to us?

As we can read in scripture..even Paul did his best to keep God's laws. Not only did he do HIS best to keep the laws of God, but he encouraged ALL that he preached to do do the same. Paul did this for a reason.



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B

babyboyblue

Guest
#7
You're asking if obedience to God is needed for eternal life?
 
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Eccl12and13

Guest
#8


What then? Should we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!



Just want to examine one of the scriptures you provided to show that Paul speaks of (2) sets of God's laws throughout his writings. As a matter of fact...in the above scripture, Paul speaks of BOTH within the same verse. Let's study the above;

Paul ask the question, "Should we sin..."!

And what is sin? Sin is breaking God's laws; "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."

So Paul is asking should we break God's laws. Obviously there are laws that Paul knows are to be kept that were not nailed to Christ cross.

Let's continue.... Next Paul states, "...because we are not under law..."

Now if Paul asked if we should break God's law...The logical question to ask would be, "Then what law is this he is speaking about that we are no longer under?".

If we are not under ANY of God's laws because ALL have been nailed to Christ cross that would make it impossible to sin. As a matter of fact Paul even tells us this in another verse, "... for where no law is, there is no transgression.". If there are no laws how can anyone be guilty of sin?

Let's continue with Paul's statement, "...but under grace?"

Now let's logically try to put this all together;

Paul asks if we should continue to sin.
We know that to sin is to break the laws of God.
We know that if there are no laws there cannot be sin.

So.....could Paul be speaking of the same laws within this one verse? Of course not. There has to be a set of laws that we must still keep...and ANOTHER set that have been replaced....but replaced by WHAT? Paul tells us.....GRACE!

And what was the 'grace' that replaced a set of laws that man is no longer under? Well...let's try to find it.


"Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins" Rom.3:25

"Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him." Rom.5:9

Now pay close attention to this next verse;

"Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:" Rom.3:24

So...what was the 'grace' that freely justified us? The blood of Christ. Let's confirm this with further scriptures;

"But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many." Rom.5:15

"In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:" Col.1:14

"In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;" Eph.1:7


The 'grace' that ALL men received was the blood of Christ. THAT is the 'grace' that redeems. That is the 'grace' that saves. And what did Christ blood replace? What law of God was no longer needed after Christ shed His blood? What was the law that was the schoolmaster to keep us until the seed should come? What law was contrary to us? What law ended the moment Christ died? Let's read what Paul has to say....

Heb.9
[13] For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
[14] How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Heb.10
[4] For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
[6] In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

The law that was replaced by the 'grace/blood' of Christ was the law of God that required the blood of animals to temporarily remove mans sin.

NOW.......Let's go back and re-read Paul's statement;


"What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid."

Paul ask the question..."

Should we continue to break God's laws because we are no longer under God's OTHER law of animal sacrifice, but are under Christ blood?

Now let's read Paul's answer;


"God forbid!"

Why does Paul tell us not to break God's laws?


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A

Abiding

Guest
#10
Titus 3:3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men
 
X

xXErraticEmilyXx

Guest
#11
Yes. Keeping the commandments is fear of God.
 
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Eccl12and13

Guest
#12
Let's think about this for just a moment.....

What did Christ come to this earth to do? When He came He did reveal who that Father was. He also told us about the coming kingdom of the Father. But was this His reason for coming to earth?

No! This is information that He gave us...along with setting the example for us to live by....BUT that was not His reason for coming to earth. Christ came for one thing and for one thing only; To redeem man from a law of God....a curse of God that all have had upon them since the very first man.

And that curse was to die for the sins that ALL have committed; "And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission."

If there was no shedding of blood there was no forgiveness of sins.

THAT is why Christ came to earth. To shed His blood so that we would not have to shed our blood.

Christ could have easily talked about the kingdom of God....reveal who the Father was...and set an example for us to live by...then returned back to heaven. But if He did not die and shed His blood....our sins would yet be upon us.

So the shedding of Christ blood ALLOWED all men to now have eternal life. Christ died for ALL of mankind. Christ made it possible for ALL to be saved. He made it possible for ALL to have salvation!

BUT.......will ALL of mankind receive eternal life because of the one act of the shedding of blood by Christ?

Sadly......NO!

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May 30, 2012
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#13
Let's think about this for just a moment.....

What did Christ come to this earth to do? When He came He did reveal who that Father was. He also told us about the coming kingdom of the Father. But was this His reason for coming to earth?

No! This is information that He gave us...along with setting the example for us to live by....BUT that was not His reason for coming to earth. Christ came for one thing and for one thing only; To redeem man from a law of God....a curse of God that all have had upon them since the very first man.

And that curse was to die for the sins that ALL have committed; "And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission."

If there was no shedding of blood there was no forgiveness of sins.

THAT is why Christ came to earth. To shed His blood so that we would not have to shed our blood.

Christ could have easily talked about the kingdom of God....reveal who the Father was...and set an example for us to live by...then returned back to heaven. But if He did not die and shed His blood....our sins would yet be upon us.

So the shedding of Christ blood ALLOWED all men to now have eternal life. Christ died for ALL of mankind. Christ made it possible for ALL to be saved. He made it possible for ALL to have salvation!

BUT.......will ALL of mankind receive eternal life because of the one act of the shedding of blood by Christ?

Sadly......NO!

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Can I ask? Do you believe Christ died only for the sins committed before a person becomes a Christian, or also those committed after they are saved?
 
May 30, 2012
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#14
If we are not under ANY of God's laws because ALL have been nailed to Christ cross that would make it impossible to sin. As a matter of fact Paul even tells us this in another verse, "... for where no law is, there is no transgression.". If there are no laws how can anyone be guilty of sin?




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But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of Himself
Heb9:26
 
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wwjd_kilden

Guest
#15
Can I make a sidetrack in this based on the last question? (if not ignore this one)

Those who do believe only past sins are forgiven: Why did Jesus have to die? If He only died for past sins, sacificing some bulls should work just as well now as it did in the past?
 
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babyboyblue

Guest
#16

I'll put it this way;

A willingness to be obedient and to put God first is all that's needed to start. The rest is up to God. He will cleanse you from all your sins and make you perfect (obedient to His will). No one in Heaven will be disobedient.
 
May 30, 2012
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#17
Can I make a sidetrack in this based on the last question? (if not ignore this one)

Those who do believe only past sins are forgiven: Why did Jesus have to die? If He only died for past sins, sacificing some bulls should work just as well now as it did in the past?
Absolutely

Christ died to pay the penalty for our sin, and to remove the POWER of sin, and the power of sin is the law 1Cor 15:56

If Christ only died for the sins committed before we are saved we are not free from the power of sin
 
May 30, 2012
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#18
Can I make a sidetrack in this based on the last question? (if not ignore this one)

Those who do believe only past sins are forgiven: Why did Jesus have to die? If He only died for past sins, sacificing some bulls should work just as well now as it did in the past?
The problem is many want what they cannot have

Not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith
Phil3:9

The only Christians who can truly please God are the ones who know Christ died for all their sin, for they can then serve purely out of love and gratitude, not out of fear, and not out of self righteousness. Those are the disciples Christ wants
 
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Eccl12and13

Guest
#19
Can I ask? Do you believe Christ died only for the sins committed before a person becomes a Christian, or also those committed after they are saved?
I will answer that with scripture;

Let's read what is needed for a person to receive the faith that is needed for salvation which scriptures tells us is the following;

Rom.10
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[13] For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

But is this all that is needed? Calling upon the name of the Lord? Let's continue...

[14] How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed?

Paul asks the question...how can one call upon Jesus without first believing in Him.

[14] ....and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard?

So before believing to be able to call upon His name they must first hear about Jesus.

[14] .....and how shall they hear without a preacher?

So before being able to call on His name you must first hear or learn about Jesus. And how can you learn about Jesus without a preacher.

[15] And how shall they preach, except they be sent?

So now..not only do you have to first hear about Jesus before being able to call His name, you must have been first taught about Him. And not just by ANYONE.....it must come from one that has been sent by God. Now part of the preachers job is to teach people what sin is...just as Paul did. And where did Paul learn what is and what is not sin? Let's read;

Rom.7
[7] What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Let's confirm;

Rom.3
[20] Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

This is just one of the jobs of a preacher that is sent by God. To teach what is righteous to God.

Let's continue....

[16] But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
[17] So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

So the faith that is needed to be saved must first come by the knowledge of God, that was presented by one that was sent by God, then the words that were taught, which is the gospel, must be obeyed.

Once a person has gone through the process that the scriptures says are needed for faith so that they are able to call on His name and then they accept the Lord, to do and obey the gospel, they are now accountable for any actions AFTER this acceptance. For how can anyone be held accountable for sinning against God if they have never heard about Him, have never been taught about Him, nor know what is wrong according to His laws.

Now let's read what sin Christ died for;

Rom.3
[23] For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
[24] Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
[25] Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
[26] To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

The scriptures tells us that Christ died for the remission of sins, "...THAT ARE PAST...".

Now the question is...Past what?

Past the time that you were taught by a preacher that was sent, that caused you to believe in this man Jesus, that then caused you to call upon His name and believe that His blood was shed for the forgiveness of your sins.

Now if you sin AFTER coming into the knowledge of who Jesus is and that His blood was shed for your sins and was taught what was a sin and what was not..you are in danger of being found guilty.

Let's read of what Paul tells us of those that have received the Holy Spirit and what COULD happen to them if they decide to return to their old lifestyle;

Heb.6
[4] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[5] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

Now what would you consider a person that was, "enlightened", " have tasted of the heavenly gift", " were made partakers of the Holy Ghost", and "And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come"?

If that person were to die right now...in the state mentioned above...what would you think their chances were of eternal life? I would say they were pretty good. I would say any person in the above state would be saved. But I am not God...I cannot judge. Only God knows their mind. Now let's read what Paul tells us next....

[6] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Paul says IF these were to fall away it would be impossible to renew then again unto repentance. Now....if it were NOT possible for them to fall away in the first place why would Paul even give us this scenario?

Jesus died for ALL of their PAST sins. If they go BACK and fall away they are in danger of dying the second death.

Now....does any of us know just when their fate is sealed? In other words...will it be after their 1st, 5th or 63rd sin that God turns His head and says enough is enough! Who knows. Only God knows that. All I know is that God's word tells us that Jesus died and covered all of our PAST sins.

I just gotta include other scripture to confirm;

Ezk.18
[24] But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
[25] Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?

So ALL of the good things a righteous person does can be wiped away and counted for nothing if he starts sinning again. And does he have the chance to redeem himself? Let's read;

[26] When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

So if the ONCE righteous DIES in his sins, he shall die the second death.

Now remember.....he was considered righteous at one point. But it was when he started to sin again AND die in his sins did he have to die the second death.
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Eccl12and13

Guest
#20
I'll put it this way;

A willingness to be obedient and to put God first is all that's needed to start. The rest is up to God. He will cleanse you from all your sins and make you perfect (obedient to His will). No one in Heaven will be disobedient.
I agree.... No one in God's kingdom will be disobedient. But that question is, Is being obedient needed to GET into God's kingdom?

Thanks for reading.
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