I think the entire argument is ridiculous. To have eternal life we must be perfect, so why in the world would we give our self over to sin? The only way to perfection so we can be saved is through what Christ did about it. It makes sense to glory and thank our God for giving us that perfection, why fight about wanting imperfection instead? It is enough that no matter how we try we still miss the mark, it is Christ within that gives us the perfection required to live eternally with God. Why ever should anyone want to sin, instead of glorying in the righteousness Christ gives us.
Is Obedience Necessary for Salvation?
- Thread starter ChosenbyHim
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to the degree we are
becoming perfected
is to the degree
we have faith. faith in
........... .. ...... .......... ..
............. .............
........... ..... . ... ..........
.............. ......... .........
Truth.
"I am the Way and the
Truth and the Life.
no one comes to the
Father except by Me"
no one ----------------
------------ comes to God
except by h a v i n g f a i t h
-- in Truth.
b y w a l k i n g -- in Truth,
a n d b y -- obeying Truth.
12 I tell you for certain
that if you have faith
in me, you will do the
same things I am doing.
the Same ............
...... .. ... ... .... ....
................ ..........
... ......... ..... ........
a n d G r e a t e r .
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faith comes by hearing, and hearing of the Word of God. Jesus is the Word. Jesus is is also the Truth.
it could be that your friend does not hear the Word (the Truth) much or enough ........... either outwardly or inwardly. those who hear the Word (the Truth) inside ...... and/or outside on a regular basis and really listen or listen enough ............. for the Truth to awake them from slumber(s) -- will at least be thinking about chang - full - ness / right - ness ............. and if/ when they decide to (repent) change ---- they will start to ---- as they decide to, or are lead to (by their conscience /belief /hearing/ listening /thinking about it ---- i. e. : w a k e - f u l l - n e s s)
but as a man thinketh ................... so he is. if we think we are sinners saved by grace and that's it, and it's done, then we think not like (the Truth) -- Jesus. Jesus thinks about doing the will of His Father and speaking of always speaking the will of His Father -- also which at the same time He is also doing the Will of.
it is perhaps about being truer or lesser you. where do we wish to go? what kinds of places? heavenly places.......... or earthly (worldly) places? two verses come to mind........
Luke 14:28
"28For which of you, desiring to build a tower, does not first, having sat down, count the cost, whether he has enough for its completion? 29Otherwise, he having laid its foundation and not being able to finish, all seeing it may begin to mock him, 30saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish.’
31Or what king, proceeding to engage with another king in war, will not, having sat down, first take counsel whether he is able with ten thousand to meet the one coming against him with twenty thousand? 32And if not, of him being still far off, having sent an embassy, he asks for peace. 33So therefore every one of you who does not give up all that he himself possesses, is not able to be My disciple."
and:
https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Luke 12:48
@Jackson123
this may help in understanding also:
The Promise of Rest
1Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it.
2For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, [a]not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. 3For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:
“So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest,’ ”
although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; 5and again in this place: “They shall not enter My rest.”
6Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, 7again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said:
“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.”
8For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. 9There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.
10For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.
".... 3For we who have believed do enter that rest.."
believed in what? in Truth (Christ)
"... it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience"
"... Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said:
“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.” "
today, do not harden -- but listen and be obedient
"9There remains therefore a rest for the people of God."
there remains a rest for any follower of God to enter into
who exactly will enter into this rest /peace / Sabbath?
"10For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His."
he who is following Christ/Truth/righteousness/right- living/law keeping/Spirit listening-learning to the point of ceasing more and more from their own ways and have taken on God/Truth /Christ-Mind
this may help in understanding also:
The Promise of Rest
1Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it.
2For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, [a]not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. 3For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:
“So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest,’ ”
although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; 5and again in this place: “They shall not enter My rest.”
6Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, 7again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said:
“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.”
8For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. 9There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.
10For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.
".... 3For we who have believed do enter that rest.."
believed in what? in Truth (Christ)
"... it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience"
"... Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said:
“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.” "
today, do not harden -- but listen and be obedient
"9There remains therefore a rest for the people of God."
there remains a rest for any follower of God to enter into
who exactly will enter into this rest /peace / Sabbath?
"10For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His."
he who is following Christ/Truth/righteousness/right- living/law keeping/Spirit listening-learning to the point of ceasing more and more from their own ways and have taken on God/Truth /Christ-Mind
L
I am not agree
Endure in this context mean keep faith though people persecute or kill
If endure in that contact mean still alive than take the mark
And one that did, because murdered by the beast not go to heaven?
One of our fellow give a verse
Hebrew 5
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Eternal salvation unto all them that OBEY HIM
I am not agree
Endure in this context mean keep faith though people persecute or kill
If endure in that contact mean still alive than take the mark
And one that did, because murdered by the beast not go to heaven?
One of our fellow give a verse
Hebrew 5
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Eternal salvation unto all them that OBEY HIM
E
L
I am not agree
Endure in this context mean keep faith though people persecute or kill
If endure in that contact mean still alive than take the mark
And one that did, because murdered by the beast not go to heaven?
One of our fellow give a verse
Hebrew 5
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Eternal salvation unto all them that OBEY HIM
I am not agree
Endure in this context mean keep faith though people persecute or kill
If endure in that contact mean still alive than take the mark
And one that did, because murdered by the beast not go to heaven?
One of our fellow give a verse
Hebrew 5
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Eternal salvation unto all them that OBEY HIM
As for myself. I will continue to seek Gods grace. Knowing that no matter how hard I work. No matter how many commands I obey. No matter how righteous I in the end turn out to be. I still deserve hell. Because I have fallen short of Gods standard.
Good Luck! I will pray for you..
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