Is once saved always saved true? Or is it only giving false security?

[eternally-gratefull]

I leave for a little bit and you guys get busy. Every one that says you only need faith is wrong. THose who have change works to a love gesture are right. I have posted this but some fail to see it.

Galatians 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything; the only thing that counts is faith working through love.

Working is a verb. Work = action. Faith alone dead faith plus works good. This is not to be confused with salvation because to be saved we need the grace of God.

How many times do you have to be told a dead is no faith at all?? How can one be saved, given eternal life, and the assurance brought about by the seal and guarantee of the HS when they do not have faith in God? THEY CAN'T and they WON'T

Your faith is in self. because you do not believe in the assurance of salvation, in the gift of eternal life which God says we can HAVE NOW (you think it comes only after death, which is not true) nor do you believe in the eternal seal of the HS.

Would you not rather trust (have faith) in God and his promises, and not your own ability, which you even stated earlier, you could never be good enough in the first place or do enough work? You have no hope.. Thus you can have no faith.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Eternal please for the love of our Lord. Stop giving false witness to the already explained. If you do not get it fine, but do not say I told you you only need to work your salvation out. I have said time and time again Faith and works go hand in hand, mano a mano, together.

You just contradicted yourself. It not works. but it is works..(rolls eyes)

So please stop saying I need to only work my salvation because works with ought faith are dead. Just like faith with ought works is dead. Do not argue me argue God if you want to. If you must come up with an irrational way to explain this then you are making it up.

No your the irrational one.

You say it is not works. Yet you say you can not know whether you will get to heaven or not, because you do not know if you will do enough work..

Contradiction in terms and ideas..

Faith plus Works is pleasing to God our Lord. Faith is completely different than works; that is like saying arm and foot.

Faith saved you. Repentnance which leads to faith produces works. which are pleasing to God

Working to earn salvation is not pleasing to God.. stop saying your not working to earn salvation. If you were not working to earn it. you would believe in eternal security,, you don;t so you do not practice what you teach!

 

[Rock022]

How many times do you have to be told a dead is no faith at all?? How can one be saved, given eternal life, and the assurance brought about by the seal and guarantee of the HS when they do not have faith in God? THEY CAN'T and they WON'T

Your faith is in self. because you do not believe in the assurance of salvation, in the gift of eternal life which God says we can HAVE NOW (you think it comes only after death, which is not true) nor do you believe in the eternal seal of the HS.

Would you not rather trust (have faith) in God and his promises, and not your own ability, which you even stated earlier, you could never be good enough in the first place or do enough work? You have no hope.. Thus you can have no faith.

When have I ever said that salvation depends only in my woks? Or when have I said What I do for my self is what saves me?

Never that is when.

But you say salvation is only trough faith, and that is completely wrong. We are saved trough the grace of our Lord. And our lord gave us some sacraments. To be born again of water and spirit [baptism]

 

[eternally-gratefull]

When have I ever said that salvation depends only in my woks? Or when have I said What I do for my self is what saves me?

You say it all the time. every time you say works you say it

But you say salvation is only trough faith, and that is completely wrong. We are saved trough the grace of our Lord. And our lord gave us some sacraments. To be born again of water and spirit [baptism]

There ys just said it.

I mean think about it. How foolish is this.

God gave the jews the law and traditions. YET THEY NEVER HELPED SAVE THEM.

Now he gives the church sacraments??

Yeah right..

 

[Rock022]

You say it all the time. every time you say works you say it



There ys just said it.

I mean think about it. How foolish is this.

God gave the jews the law and traditions. YET THEY NEVER HELPED SAVE THEM.

Now he gives the church sacraments??

Yeah right..

The law never saved them because Jesus sacrifice had not happened. Why do you even think God gave them the law? Jesus himself said He did not come to abolish the law.

 

[zone]

did we figure this out yet?

can i get a summary?

Re: Is once saved always saved true? Or is it only giving false security?

 

[Rock022]

EG what do you make if this?
Philippians 2:12-13
...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13for it is God who is at work in you, enabling you both to will and to work for his good pleasure

 

[Katy-follower]

Rock....

Imagine a set of monkey bars suspended over hell. You are hanging from different ones, each of them labeled: baptism, good works, sacraments, indulgences, the mass. These are all the things you are told keep you out of hell.

Picture Jesus suspended between you and hell, saying "I am the only one who can save you, but I can't until you first let go"

You must let go and believe Jesus will save you. If you remain hanging when you die then it's too late.

You have to come to God with empty hands of faith.


Romans 11:6: "And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work"

Anyone who attempts to earn salvation actually nullifies God’s grace.

 

[Katy-follower]

Rock - I noted from one of your posts that you're south American. By the way, my husband is Peruvian

Just mentioning this fact here so others know... South Americans are very passionate about their Catholicism, more so than regular Catholics. It's very different in South America because it's a major part of their culture and tough for them to let go of it. Family is important and this is something they participate in together. Same goes for the Spanish and Italians.

This is for you --> Just for Catholics: Mainpage

 

[homwardbound]

works produce faith in self

Faith in God produces work which glorifies God because it is about him and others, not self.

That is why salvation can not be about works. because it would be saving salf. not being saved by God

Yes yes ans yes again excellent

 

[homwardbound]

did we figure this out yet?

can i get a summary?

Re: Is once saved always saved true? Or is it only giving false security?

To some it is giving false security and when in doubt one cannot be saved for they do not believe God at his word
I am going to post a writing written today and I put have it on my blog, I will do a new post on it here a new thread and it is long but I think with all the scripture and comments it will be worth reading it
I am secure in the Finished work of Christ Jesus that brought in the new covenant knowing God the Father has and will work out everyone's salvation tothose that actually desire to know him without reservation, no other motive that is when truth is revealed to each and every believer, yet the flesh still does its best to be in the picture, but God shows youthe discerment in time as you do truly want to know him
in love God's love Homwardbound

 

[homwardbound]

EG what do you make if this?
Philippians 2:12-13
...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13for it is God who is at work in you, enabling you both to will and to work for his good pleasure

Hope you don't mind Rock, but this is proof that it is God that if you wil ask him to or trust God to, then God will live through you and you can rest in him medicine I call this God-quill in place of ny-quill and am at rest in him doing the will of my Father by him, (which is work) just not my work, it is God's work through me the vessel for God, not all stressed out as I was before I gave up working for my salvation. After giving up adding work of myself to my salvation is when God took over via me asking yelling and screaming to God that I can't make it I can't be perfect then God said let me do it for you in and through you and I said yes I need you and Now I know God just love me, you and all whether they believe or not God just love you and this is shown through his Son Christ Jesus For God so loved the world that whosoever believeth shall be saved. Do you believe that God just plainly love you? or do we all have to show God we love him by what we do or not do? if this second ? is true then how would this be opposite of the world? For God is opposite of the world and we are not to be friends of this world. In this world we are to do to get we are to love to be loved we are to forgive to be forgiven correct? And from the kingdom of heaven that is not of this world we are forgiven therefore in response we forgive, we are therefore by our response we just love and not just those that love us we love all as God has already loved us unconditionally. From darkness brother to light, from being a citizen of this world to a citizen of Heaven. From being initiators (God's) to giving up creating to return to being created by God and being responders to God the actual creator of all. We are the creation (responders) and God is the true creator (initiator) for here awaiting for us to respond to him Thanking God for this miraculous salvation that he has provided to us through belief in Him the creator of all the Father of Christ Jesus
Love you Rock

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The law never saved them because Jesus sacrifice had not happened.

You did not get the jist of my question. The law never saved them only because Christ had not died yet? Are you joking?

Scripture said the law could NEVER save anyone. It did not save them before Christ and it can not save us today.

So How did they get saved if their form of sacraments could never save them? And why did God give us a set of rules and regulations via works (sacraments) to save us?? Are they saved different than us? If those sacraments are required for salvation. Why did not God give them to those people? They must be lost? because they did not have the correct way to heaven as God did not supply it t them.

Another thing. If the law (rules and regulations, traditions and works of the law) had no part in their salvation (as God said) then how were they saved?

would it not be by Christ alone through faith Alone?? This is what Paul said in romans 4. This is what David said in the psalms..

Why do you even think God gave them the law?

I don't have to think. God tells us.

Gal 3: 24: [SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

There is that faith alone thingy!


Romans 3:19-24 [SUP]19 [/SUP]Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.[SUP]21 [/SUP]But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, [SUP]22 [/SUP]even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; [SUP]23 [/SUP]for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, [SUP]24 [/SUP]being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

How is the law the schoomaster?

1. The law makes us know we are guilty, for all have sinned
2. the law shows how redemption was bought an purchased. The annual sacrifices made for the sins of the people. In which Christ died once to fulfill this aspect, for ALL SIN
3. The traditions were a type, which showed us what God did, and what Christ would do. (ie Circumcision represented cleasning, which God did through the blood of Christ, Passover meal represented the freedom, where the angel of death passed over judgment on the house due to the blood (redemption)

And again, Here is the faith alone stuff you claim is not there

Jesus himself said He did not come to abolish the law.

Your right, he came to fulfill it. He who KNEW no sin (was not condemned buy the law) became sin for us that we might be made right through him. Thge sacrifice of animal was abolished. The veil to tine inner sanctum (where only the High priest had access to make intercession for the people) was torn down, meaning all men could come personally to God based on Christ's one sacrifice.

So you want to replace all this with sacramental works?? That is just another law. another way for satan to turn people from truth, and worship God in religion, not faith.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG what do you make if this?
Philippians 2:12-13
...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13for it is God who is at work in you, enabling you both to will and to work for his good pleasure

1. Work out YOUR SALVATION.. If your not saved, you do not have a salvation to work out. You must be saved first..
2. God is at work IN YOU.. Again, if your not saved, God can not work in you, or do anything for you.

why did you leave the rest out?

[SUP]14 [/SUP]Do all things without complaining and disputing, [SUP]15 [/SUP]that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world,

Why would we need to be blameless and harmless in the world? Would it not be so Gods work and message in us does not become back void? is this not saying we are to be lights? what is the purpose of the light? to draw people in darkness to himself. If we are not lights, God can not use us, We have put our light out.. No one will listen to us, they will deem us as hypocrites, use our words and actions against us. Paul worried about this his whole ministry.

what he never worried about was losing his salvation.

Paul is not saying work to earn salvation. he said work out the salvation you ALREADY HAVE!

 

[Rock022]

I can show you much more scriptures that talk about works and deeds against the faith alone, but I believe at this point you guys are so indoctrinated that you will refuse what the bible says. I will try an analogy.

Imagine you have 3 children

Child one believes hat you are his father, but believes he does not need to please you. [faith alone]

Child two believes you are the father and does many things just to please you. [Faith plus works]

Child tree does not believe you are the father and does the things that please you. [works alone]

The father will love them all that is Grace. He wants all to be saved but he is of sound judgment and will punish those who did wrong.

Even the devil believes in God, but the devil will not repent [work]

 

[mark54]

I can show you much more scriptures that talk about works and deeds against the faith alone, but I believe at this point you guys are so indoctrinated that you will refuse what the bible says. I will try an analogy.

Imagine you have 3 children

Child one believes hat you are his father, but believes he does not need to please you. [faith alone]

Child two believes you are the father and does many things just to please you. [Faith plus works]

Child tree does not believe you are the father and does the things that please you. [works alone]

The father will love them all that is Grace. He wants all to be saved but he is of sound judgment and will punish those who did wrong.

Even the devil believes in God, but the devil will not repent [work]

Can I ask you Rock?

What 'works' do you think you are doing that are neccessary to attain Heaven, that those who believe we are saved by faith alone are not doing?

Could you give me an example?
Thanks

 

[Grandpa]

People misinterpret that fear and trembling phrase in philippians 2.

Jeremiah 33:9 And it shall be to me a name of joy, a praise and an honour before all the nations of the earth, which shall hear all the good that I do unto them: and they shall fear and tremble for all the goodness and for all the prosperity that I procure unto it.

When a person works out their own salvation they start to find out all the goodness and all the prosperity that God has procured unto them. They start to find out that God has promised them eternal security. Not scary, shaky, momentary security...

 

[CDavid]

[SUP]Revelation 2:15-16
15 [/SUP]Thus you also have those who hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP]16 [/SUP]Repent, or else I will come to you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth.

The common statement, that the Nicolaitans held the antinomian heresy of Corinth; From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Antinomianism in Christianity is the belief that under the gospel dispensation of grace, moral law is of no use or obligation because faith alone is necessary to salvation. From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Rock022]

Every letter I read from revelations to the churches talks about works. "I know your works"
Is there any letter in revelations to any of the churches that says I know your faith?

 

[Rock022]

Can I ask you Rock?

What 'works' do you think you are doing that are neccessary to attain Heaven, that those who believe we are saved by faith alone are not doing?

Could you give me an example?
Thanks

There is a difference between a person who does not believe in works but does works all the time.
There are those who only believe "faith only" will save them, they are wrong.

Do you really need me to explain good works to a christian?