Is Paul speaking solely of his life as a Pharisee in Rom7:7-11

[james57]

In the following is Paul the Christian speaking solely of his life as a Pharisee?
Or is he speaking of his life as a Christian and his life as a Pharisee?

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.[SUP]8 [/SUP]But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
Rom 7:7-11

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

It is for you to explain how Paul could say that he was alive apart from the law at one time. The only people who are alive apart from the law are believers.

So Paul was talking about a time when he thought as an unbelieving pharisee that he was alive by outwardly observing the law; and it was not until later when he received the holy spirit that he realized he had been apart from the law, and the commandment came alive and slew him for his disobedience.

Or Paul was writing about how he tried to observe the law as a Christian (like so many of his believing countrymen did), and utterly failed.

 

[james57]

It is for you to explain how Paul could say that he was alive apart from the law at one time. The only people who are alive apart from the law are believers.

So Paul was talking about a time when he thought as an unbelieving pharisee that he was alive by outwardly observing the law; and it was not until later when he received the holy spirit that he realized he had been apart from the law, and the commandment came alive and slew him for his disobedience.

Or Paul was writing about how he tried to observe the law as a Christian (like so many of his believing countrymen did), and utterly failed.

I started a thread asking for peoples beliefs on this subject. Do you not want to give yours? I drew no conclusions in my initial post of this thread

Why don't you give your opinion on the subject matter lol, you have previously

 

[james57]

The only people who are alive apart from the law are believers.

.

Can you explain the above comment? The law has not come to unbelievers has it? Or people before they come to God. So why could they not be considered to be alive apart from the law?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I started a thread asking for peoples beliefs on this subject. Do you not want to give yours? I drew no conclusions in my initial post of this thread

Why don't you give your opinion on the subject matter lol, you have previously

My opinion is in what I wrote.

 

[james57]

My opinion is in what I wrote.

Well don't be shy, just boldly state your belief. Isn't that what this thread is for?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Can you explain the above comment? The law has not come to unbelievers has it? Or people before they come to God. So why could they not be considered to be alive apart from the law?

All unbelievers are spiritually dead in trespasses and sins; they are not alive apart from the law. Only believers are alive apart from the law.

​But now, apart from the law, the righteousness of God has been revealed, being testified about by the law and the prophets— that is, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. For there is no distinction, Romans 3:21-22​

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Well don't be shy, just boldly state your belief. Isn't that what this thread is for?

I'm not going to participate in your games. If you want to be obtuse, that's your choice.

 

[james57]

All unbelievers are spiritually dead in trespasses and sins; they are not alive apart from the law. Only believers are alive apart from the law.

​But now, apart from the law, the righteousness of God has been revealed, being testified about by the law and the prophets— that is, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. For there is no distinction, Romans 3:21-22​

I strongly disagree. Before I made a commitment to God at a young age I had-or felt no condemnation by the law. Once I became a Christian, not knowing the truth of grace I did feel condemned by the law. So before I became a Christian/made a commitment to Christ I was alive apart from the law, for the law had not them been placed within me.

 

[FreeNChrist]

In the following is Paul the Christian speaking solely of his life as a Pharisee?
Or is he speaking of his life as a Christian and his life as a Pharisee?

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.[SUP]8 [/SUP]But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
Rom 7:7-11

He's speaking of the Law and the effect it has on man, isn't he?

 

[james57]

He's speaking of the Law and the effect it has on man, isn't he?

The specific question is

Is Paul speaking solely of his time as a Pharisee, or also as his time as a Christian. If you don't mind, I am seeking peoples opinions on that

 

[FreeNChrist]

The specific question is

Is Paul speaking solely of his time as a Pharisee, or also as his time as a Christian. If you don't mind, I am seeking peoples opinions on that

I just gave you my opinion of what he is speaking about. That is the effect the Law has upon man.

 

[james57]

I just gave you my opinion of what he is speaking about. That is the effect the Law has upon man.

And I agree with your statement, but does the statement solely in Pauls case refer to his time as a Pharisee, or also as a Christian?

 

[FreeNChrist]

And I agree with your statement, but does the statement solely in Pauls case refer to his time as a Pharisee, or also as a Christian?

What does it matter? Before or after, the Law has the same effect. We never measure up to the demands of the Law.

 

[james57]

I'm not going to participate in your games. If you want to be obtuse, that's your choice.

It isn't a game. The whole point of the thread is to state whether you believe Paul is speaking solely as a Pharisee in the verses mentioned or also as a Christian

 

[KJV1611]

In the following is Paul the Christian speaking solely of his life as a Pharisee?
Or is he speaking of his life as a Christian and his life as a Pharisee?

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.[SUP]8 [/SUP]But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
Rom 7:7-11

He wasn't talking about either, he was talking about his life before the age of accountability.

 

[james57]

He wasn't talking about either, he was talking about his life before the age of accountability.

What age do you believe is the age of accountability?

In those verses sin, through the law aroused all manner of concupiscence in Paul

 

[KJV1611]

What age do you believe is the age of accountability?

In those verses sin, through the law aroused all manner of concupiscence in Paul

I don't think there's a specific age, it's whenever a person understands what sin is.

 

[james57]

I don't think there's a specific age, it's whenever a person understands what sin is.

If Paul understood what lust was in the verses mentioned, he would have understood what sin was wouldn't he, for he understood lust through the commandment. Therefore, would he not have reached the age of accountability?

 

[dalconn]

He's addressing believing jews about the fact that keeping the law doesn't save us from sin but living a life in the Holy Spirit, the law just reveals sin in our lives