Is sin lawlessness or is sin the transgression of the law?

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Sep 25, 2023
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#21
we are not under the law in our spiritual being inside of our human sinful being.
the human sinful being, is still held to its ruler, which can be defined by the Law or Commandments as [sin].
but while our human sin nature is held to this, our spiritual being, that is now ALIVE through Christ Jesus, and it is under no condemnation.

reason we repent, because our spirit body connected to God, wants nothing to do with the sins we commit. the Holy Spirit, alerts us, we have sinned. God, would not let us know that we have sinned, unless sinning, is a problem. and God, ALWAYS, lets me know when i have sinned.
That is good that God lets you know when you have sinned. It provides an opportunity for repentance and confession. reconciliation

I don't know what to make of what you have written here.
 
Jun 20, 2022
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#22
That is good that God lets you know when you have sinned. It provides an opportunity for repentance and confession. reconciliation

I don't know what to make of what you have written here.
well, if God alerts us that we sin, it means, we should rethink some of these Grace Doctrines.
because, if God was cool with my sin, He would not take time to make me think about it.
and the fact, He makes me think about it, so that, it becomes something i feel more inclined to "Repent" about.
that tells me, i need to do as Paul did, and crucify my flesh DAILY!

to have to crucify the flesh, means, God, don't want my sins to just slide by and me get comfortable with sinning.
 
Sep 25, 2023
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#23
well, if God alerts us that we sin, it means, we should rethink some of these Grace Doctrines.
because, if God was cool with my sin, He would not take time to make me think about it.
and the fact, He makes me think about it, so that, it becomes something i feel more inclined to "Repent" about.
that tells me, i need to do as Paul did, and crucify my flesh DAILY!

to have to crucify the flesh, means, God, don't want my sins to just slide by and me get comfortable with sinning.
That sounds good.

God is gracious. God has grace for you. But I don't know what to make of what you say, Grace Doctrines.
 
Jun 20, 2022
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#24
That sounds good.

God is gracious. God has grace for you. But I don't know what to make of what you say, Grace Doctrines.
Because, Grace, is about God giving me time to Repent. Rather than, being led to believe, all sins, including future sins, are forgiven, so no need to repent. i sin, it's forgiven. move on. commit next sin. no need to Repent...etc.
 
Sep 25, 2023
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#25
Because Grace is about God giving me time to Repent, rather than being led to believe, all sins including future sins are forgiven, so no need to repent. i sin, it's forgiven. move on. commit next sin.
Oh. Well, if you sin do you believe that you do not need to repent or confess the sin to God?
 
Jun 20, 2022
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#26
Oh. Well, if you sin do you believe that you do not need to repent or confess the sin to God?
i do that, because, I say the Lord's Prayer daily, and it includes my sins are forgiven because i have forgiven those who sinned against me...like our Heavenly Father Commands.

but, there are some specific sins, those that come to the mind , and when they do, i know just the random forgive me of my sins is not enough here. these sins, these are to call the sin out specifically by name and repent of it specifically.
 
Sep 25, 2023
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#27
i do that, because, I say the Lord's Prayer daily, and it includes my sins are forgiven because i have forgiven those who sinned against me...like our Heavenly Father Commands.

but, there are some specific sins, those that come to the mind , and when they do, i know just the random forgive me of my sins is not enough here. these sins, these are to call the sin out specifically by name and repent of it specifically.
See 1 John 1:9.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#29
That sounds good.

God is gracious. God has grace for you. But I don't know what to make of what you say, Grace Doctrines.
In the context of Scripture, usually the term "Law" (capitalized) refers to the Law as given through Moses, of which the ten commandments are part. The Law also encompasses the other 603-odd specific statements in the first five books of the Old Testament. This Law was given to Israel, not to the Christian Church.

The Church is in relationship with God not through obedience to the Law, but through the blood of Jesus Christ. Individual members of the Church ("Christians") don't need to obey each command in the Law, but we still know when we sin because the Holy Spirit infills us, and He convicts us.

The Law could not possibly define every way in which a human could sin, and cannot account for situations where something is a sin in one context but not in another. The Holy Spirit does that. I don't walk in fear that I have transgressed the Law. I know when I have done something wrong in God's sight because the Holy Spirit tells me.

If I were to ignore the conviction of the Holy Spirit, I would be walking in lawlessness, acting as though "there were no law". That doesn't mean I have "become" unsaved; it means I have sinned and need to deal with that sin.
 
Sep 25, 2023
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#30
In the context of Scripture, usually the term "Law" (capitalized) refers to the Law as given through Moses, of which the ten commandments are part. The Law also encompasses the other 603-odd specific statements in the first five books of the Old Testament. This Law was given to Israel, not to the Christian Church.

The Church is in relationship with God not through obedience to the Law, but through the blood of Jesus Christ. Individual members of the Church ("Christians") don't need to obey each command in the Law, but we still know when we sin because the Holy Spirit infills us, and He convicts us.

The Law could not possibly define every way in which a human could sin, and cannot account for situations where something is a sin in one context but not in another. The Holy Spirit does that. I don't walk in fear that I have transgressed the Law. I know when I have done something wrong in God's sight because the Holy Spirit tells me.

If I were to ignore the conviction of the Holy Spirit, I would be walking in lawlessness, acting as though "there were no law". That doesn't mean I have "become" unsaved; it means I have sinned and need to deal with that sin.
The Law is Genesis Exodus Leviticus Numbers Deuteronomy or the Ten Commandments or all of the instruction given through Moses including the Ten Commandments and I think other things written. So yes, 613 commands, mitzvot, or commandments.

The church is not under the Law. We do not need to fulfill the Law. Jesus has done that for us. But is the Law an eternal standard or is it not? This is dangerous territory for me.

I am a Gentile, so though I have been Torah Observant, I no that I am not under the Law.
 
Sep 25, 2023
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#31
The word Torah means Law, Instruction, Teaching, Direction. Or, Instruction, Direction, Teaching, Law. Or, Instruction, Teaching, Direction, Law.

So when we see the word torah in relation to the new covenant, it is really talking about God's instruction. The question is can we say that this is something through Moses or not.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
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#32
The Law is Genesis Exodus Leviticus Numbers Deuteronomy or the Ten Commandments or all of the instruction given through Moses including the Ten Commandments and I think other things written. So yes, 613 commands, mitzvot, or commandments.

The church is not under the Law. We do not need to fulfill the Law. Jesus has done that for us. But is the Law an eternal standard or is it not? This is dangerous territory for me.

I am a Gentile, so though I have been Torah Observant, I no that I am not under the Law.
Are drunkenness and gambling listed in Exodus, Deuteronomy, or Leviticus?

Is it ok to get drunk, based on the fact, that drunkenness is not in the ten commandments?

Is gluttony permitted?

We can go on and on about behavior that is not lawless, but is spoken against in the prophets.

I would have thought that anything that is not love based, would logically be sin.
 
Sep 25, 2023
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#33
Are drunkenness and gambling listed in Exodus, Deuteronomy, or Leviticus?
Ecclesiastes 10:17 NASB20 - Blessed are you, land whose king is of nobility, and whose princes eat at the appropriate time--for strength and not for drunkenness.

Jeremiah 13:13 NASB20 - then say to them, 'This is what the LORD says: "Behold, I am going to fill all the inhabitants of this land--the kings who sit for David on his throne, the priests, the prophets, and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem--with drunkenness!

Ezekiel 23:33 NASB20 - 'You will be filled with drunkenness and grief, A cup of horror and desolation, The cup of your sister Samaria.
Is it ok to get drunk, based on the fact, that drunkenness is not in the ten commandments?
No. It is not. It is not okay to get drunk.
Is gluttony permitted?
No. Gluttony is not permitted.
We can go on and on about behavior that is not lawless, but is spoken against in the prophets.
I don't know what you mean.
I would have thought that anything that is not love based, would logically be sin.
Are you correct?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#34
The Law is Genesis Exodus Leviticus Numbers Deuteronomy or the Ten Commandments or all of the instruction given through Moses including the Ten Commandments and I think other things written. So yes, 613 commands, mitzvot, or commandments.

The church is not under the Law. We do not need to fulfill the Law. Jesus has done that for us. But is the Law an eternal standard or is it not? This is dangerous territory for me.

I am a Gentile, so though I have been Torah Observant, I no that I am not under the Law.
Unless you have obeyed EVERY relevant command in the Torah, you have NOT been Torah-observant. I am certain that you haven’t, because it is impossible.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#37
It is not impossible, but with Israel having a new covenant it may be unnecessary.
There is no Temple. The are no Levites. There are no priests. Following the Law is therefore impossible.
 
Sep 25, 2023
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#38
There is no Temple. The are no Levites. There are no priests. Following the Law is therefore impossible.
There is no temple. There are Levites. There are priests.

Following the Law is not based on these things, but even though this is not the case you can observe everything that you can if you want to. But, alas, there is a new covenant. You can be married to Jesus if you want to be. Romans 7.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#39
There is no temple. There are Levites. There are priests.

Following the Law is not based on these things,
Wrong. Following the Law requires ALL these things.

Exodus 23:22 If you listen carefully to what he says and do all that I say, I will be an enemy to your enemies and will oppose those who oppose you.

Deuteronomy 12:32 See that you do all I command you; do not add to it or take away from it.

but even though this is not the case you can observe everything that you can if you want to.
The Law is not a smorgasbord and never was.
 
Sep 25, 2023
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#40
Wrong. Following the Law requires ALL these things.

Exodus 23:22 If you listen carefully to what he says and do all that I say, I will be an enemy to your enemies and will oppose those who oppose you.

Deuteronomy 12:32 See that you do all I command you; do not add to it or take away from it.


The Law is not a smorgasbord and never was.
There was the tabernacle, but some people think that since there is no temple obedience to tabernacle commands can and will be fulfilled by building another temple. But the people at the temple institute have idols, and Ezekiel's temple was never built. Was it a spiritual temple or a physical temple? Once the second temple was built, would it then never be built?