Is the Devil bound right now...?
- Thread starter Bowman
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I assure that I am not misled. The problem with many expositors is that they have made the event of the resurrection and catching away synonymous with Christ's coming to end the age, when they are two separate events. The fist one is a promise to the church dead and living to gather them together in the air where they are taken back to the Father's house (heaven). Christ's return to end the age takes place at the end of the seven years, sometime after the seventh bowl has been poured out, which completes God's wrath and the church are those who are seen riding out of heaven on white horses wearing fine linen, white and clean, following the Lord as he descends, the Bride, his called, chosen and faithful followers.
As I previously stated, those who are being gathered when Christ comes is not the Church, but the great tribulation saints and Israel, who will have lived through the wrath of God and the persecution of the beast and who will still be in their mortal bodies. The phrase "the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other" is in reference to those living being gathered from every part earth. According to 1 Thes.4:16-18, angels do not gather us, but the Lord himself. In fact scripture states that at the resurrection we are changed into our glorified bodies, becoming like the angels in heaven.
It is a well known tactic to attempt to discredit the one that you are debating with, which is what your are attempting to do above. But I assure you, I have over 40 years of study on all Biblical subjects and I would not be proclaiming these things to you unless I was sure of them. The Lord is going to remove his church prior to his wrath, which begins at the seven years and when he returns seven years later, we will return with him riding on white horses. The event of Rev.20:4 is a resurrection of the great tribulation saints who will have been killed for their testimony of Jesus and the word of God and who will not have worshiped the beast, his image nor received his mark. This is a resurrection only, for there is no mention of the living being changed and caught up. The church is not in view here. In fact, you will not find the church even mentioned from Rev.4 onward demonstrating that it is gone. It is not until Rev.22:17 which is outside of the narrative that the church is once again mentioned. The only word that you will find to describe believers during the time of God's wrath from Rev.4 onward is Hagios/saints, which is referring to those saints that come out of the great tribulation who are introduced in Rev.7. These are not the church, but are those who will become believers after the church has been removed.
That is the best you have for defense of the Revelation God gave to man with the Apostles and promised to preserve His Body, the Church and the revelation entrusted to that Church. It is not discord but seeking harmony against false doctrines that have never been teachings of scripture except by false teachers. You need to get your head out of the sand. It is not the Bible itself, but man's abuse of that Book. Do you really think that the hundreds of denominations, hundreds of differing theories are actually of the Holy Spirit?
Man has been trying to impose his innovative ideas upon the Revelation of the Holy Spirit for 2000 years, yet not one man has ever been successful. Miller, Darby, Walvoord, Rhyrie and Impe and many others on a host of other theories will never change the Revelation given ONCE to the Apostles. If it has not been believed from the beginning it is false.
I can assure you that Joseph Smith, Eddy, Russell, also believed genuinely that they were correct and what they believed was indeed based on scripture.
Man has been trying to impose his innovative ideas upon the Revelation of the Holy Spirit for 2000 years, yet not one man has ever been successful. Miller, Darby, Walvoord, Rhyrie and Impe and many others on a host of other theories will never change the Revelation given ONCE to the Apostles. If it has not been believed from the beginning it is false.
I can assure you that Joseph Smith, Eddy, Russell, also believed genuinely that they were correct and what they believed was indeed based on scripture.
The problem Bowman, is YOU and others are use a DIFFERENT definition for the WORD BOUND than we do.
We mean by that term, that Satan is SO locked up and chained in a physical prison that is so removed from mankind, that he cannot exercise his influence over a single human being. Adolf Hitler, ISIS, and many others prove that Satan is not BOUND like that, NOT EVEN CLOSE.
I used to be a Volunteer Protestant Chaplain, in the largest Security Housing Unit (THE HOLE) in the California Department of Corrections.
One night two cellmates who were Satanists, had a seance, and one of them became totally possessed, that he started acting literally like he was a wolf, and LITERALLY bit the ear clean off of his cellmate. SATAN certainly is quite capable of influencing people today; to the contrary, when he is BOUND by our definition, Satan will NOT be able to influence a single human being for literally 1000 years.
We mean by that term, that Satan is SO locked up and chained in a physical prison that is so removed from mankind, that he cannot exercise his influence over a single human being. Adolf Hitler, ISIS, and many others prove that Satan is not BOUND like that, NOT EVEN CLOSE.
I used to be a Volunteer Protestant Chaplain, in the largest Security Housing Unit (THE HOLE) in the California Department of Corrections.
One night two cellmates who were Satanists, had a seance, and one of them became totally possessed, that he started acting literally like he was a wolf, and LITERALLY bit the ear clean off of his cellmate. SATAN certainly is quite capable of influencing people today; to the contrary, when he is BOUND by our definition, Satan will NOT be able to influence a single human being for literally 1000 years.
Sadly, you are.
No that is your problem. THEY are correct, at least on this. Christ raises the dead, comes to gather His saints, and judges the world along with the resurrected unbelievers. All happen at the same time.
Yes because the end of the world has come and they are being taken home.
There are no specific seven years. That is a myth unknown in Scripture obtained by twisting Scripture.
The wrath which began in Rom 1.18 (and before) comes to its conclusion because it is the end of the world. It is then that the saints are taken away an join the Lord in the air, ever to be with the Lord. There is no suggestion that they ever return to earth.
The great tribulation saints are a myth. Scripture knows nothing of a 'great tribulation at the end of the age'. WE WILL ALL undergo end times tribulation as we serve Christ here on earth rather than running away. 'In the world you WILL HAVE tribulation.'
Yes for they are all taken away.
A But He comes with the shout of the archangel and the trump of God. So clearly angels are involved. You read Scripture with your eyes closed.
We are certainly changed into our glorified at the resurrection having previously been glorified in our spiritual bodies. But we do not become like the angels in heaven (only as regards sexuality).
Yes you seem to be very good at trying unsuccessfully to do so.
B I have 65 years of study in the Scriptures. so you have a lot to learn. I would not be proclaiming what I believe if I was not sure of it. I once was entangled in your false views until the Holy Spirit led me out of them.
The Lord is going to remove his church prior to his wrath, which begins at the seven years and when he returns seven years later, we will return with him riding on white horses.
Nonsense. We will be gathered to Him when He comes to the air, with His holy ones.
It is recording their being united with Christ in HIS resurrection, the FIRST resurrection, just as we are (Eph 2.5-6' Col 3.1-4). Thy are spiritually resurrected awaiting the second resurrection, the BODILY resurrection.
There is no mention of a resurrection in verses 4-5 either. It is later pointed out that they are there because they were raised with Christ IN HIS RESURRECTION, the first resurrection
.
Of course it is. Who else has resisted the beast?
LOL so you agree that they are not mentioned in Rev 19????? Listen for the excuses everyone.
well the saints introduced in Rev 7 ARE the church. In Scripture in NT SAINTS = CHURCH
Everyone with any sense knows that they ARE the church.
No that is your problem. THEY are correct, at least on this. Christ raises the dead, comes to gather His saints, and judges the world along with the resurrected unbelievers. All happen at the same time.
Yes because the end of the world has come and they are being taken home.
There are no specific seven years. That is a myth unknown in Scripture obtained by twisting Scripture.
The wrath which began in Rom 1.18 (and before) comes to its conclusion because it is the end of the world. It is then that the saints are taken away an join the Lord in the air, ever to be with the Lord. There is no suggestion that they ever return to earth.
The great tribulation saints are a myth. Scripture knows nothing of a 'great tribulation at the end of the age'. WE WILL ALL undergo end times tribulation as we serve Christ here on earth rather than running away. 'In the world you WILL HAVE tribulation.'
Yes for they are all taken away.
A But He comes with the shout of the archangel and the trump of God. So clearly angels are involved. You read Scripture with your eyes closed.
We are certainly changed into our glorified at the resurrection having previously been glorified in our spiritual bodies. But we do not become like the angels in heaven (only as regards sexuality).
Yes you seem to be very good at trying unsuccessfully to do so.
B I have 65 years of study in the Scriptures. so you have a lot to learn. I would not be proclaiming what I believe if I was not sure of it. I once was entangled in your false views until the Holy Spirit led me out of them.
The Lord is going to remove his church prior to his wrath, which begins at the seven years and when he returns seven years later, we will return with him riding on white horses.
Nonsense. We will be gathered to Him when He comes to the air, with His holy ones.
It is recording their being united with Christ in HIS resurrection, the FIRST resurrection, just as we are (Eph 2.5-6' Col 3.1-4). Thy are spiritually resurrected awaiting the second resurrection, the BODILY resurrection.
There is no mention of a resurrection in verses 4-5 either. It is later pointed out that they are there because they were raised with Christ IN HIS RESURRECTION, the first resurrection
.
Of course it is. Who else has resisted the beast?
LOL so you agree that they are not mentioned in Rev 19????? Listen for the excuses everyone.
well the saints introduced in Rev 7 ARE the church. In Scripture in NT SAINTS = CHURCH
Everyone with any sense knows that they ARE the church.
Really you jump to that conclusion because you have no evidence to prove that millennialism was ever believed by the Church from the beginning. In your falsehoods you need to put words in my mouth which I never stated. But I can understand, you do the same thing with scripture.
So really, must I actually point out a lot of false teachings that were all based on scripture. Lets start with Arius, Nestorius Iraneous/Origin who with Papias took a pagen idea of the millennium and ascribed it as from scripture. Then we have such false teachers as Augustine on Original Sin, predestination, also [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Macedonius,[/FONT] and Apolinarius, false teaching of Docetism, Marcionism, more modern men such as Joseph Smith, Taze Russell, White, Samual Clark and a host of others.
I challenge you to find a false teaching that is not based on scripture. Even Islam is partially based on scripture. Mohammand was so ennamered by those in the Syrian community where he grew up, who he called the Book people that he took some ideas from the Bible and incorporated them into the Koran.
Most of you have become so tolerant of all the thousands of variations of the Bible you actually believe they are all valid. Sounds more like the current age of toleration. You could not determine a false teaching from a valid one because you believe that man's opinion/interpretation of the Bible is always valid just because it is based on the Bible.
One wonders why you even discuss anything since everything is valid, as long as it is based on scripture.
LOL one thing I love is these amateur Greek 'experts'. I presume you are talking about Rev 3.10. THAT REFERS ONLY TO THE PHILADELPHIAN CHURCH
,And besides ek more regularly means 'from'. Are you suggesting that God cannot protect them from/out of an hour of trial in the situation they are in so that in despair He has to take them out of it? NONSENSE. The Philadelphians are kept from the hour of trial because it does not visit their area dut to God's protection.
IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE 'TAKING AWAY'
,And besides ek more regularly means 'from'. Are you suggesting that God cannot protect them from/out of an hour of trial in the situation they are in so that in despair He has to take them out of it? NONSENSE. The Philadelphians are kept from the hour of trial because it does not visit their area dut to God's protection.
IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE 'TAKING AWAY'
Well, taking into account the events of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, God would literally have to put a force field around every believer. I don't think that you understand the magnitude of the wrath of God during that time. The entire earth will be exposed to it no matter where on earth humans live.
* At the forth seal a fourth of the earth's immediate population is killed.
* First trumpet: a third of the earth is burnt up, a third of the trees and foliage. If a third of the earth is being burnt up, then there is going to be very many fatalities that are just not mentioned here.
* Second trumpet: Something like a huge mountain all ablaze is thrown into the sea and a third of the creatures die and third of the ships are destroyed. How many people are on those ships? How many people are going to be killed in every city, town and village on every shore 360 degrees from the one thousand plus foot waves that will be generated from that object hitting in the sea?
* Third trumpet: A great star, blazing like a torch, falls on the rivers and fresh water contaminating it, the result being many people dying from drinking it. How many is many? If a third of the waters are being contaminated, you can bet that there will be many fatalities from drinking it.
* Fourth trumpet: The sun, moon and stars are darkened by a third, so that the earth will only be receiving 2/3's of its usual light. There is no inference of fatalities related to this trumpet.
* Fifth trumpet/1st woe: Demonic beings let out of the Abyss who are ordered to torment the inhabitants of the earth with tails and stings like that of scorpions who do not have the seal of God on them, which would only exclude the 144,000. This trumpet is only for the purpose of torment and no one dies as a result of this trumpet judgment.
* Sixth trumpet/2nd woe: Four angels released who are bound at the Euphrates river and gather a demonic army of 200 million who kill a third of the inhabitants of the earth via fire, sulfur and smoke that will issue from their mouths. By this time, the fatalities will be well over 5.5 billion and we haven't even gotten to the bowl judgments.
* Seven trumpet/3rd woe: Satan and angels cast out of heaven. Rejoice you heavens and those who dwell there, but WOE to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea. For the devil has gone down to you and he is filled with fury!
One can only guess as to how many people die from the following seven bowl judgments. In any case, these judgments are going to decimate the population of the earth and therefore the church cannot be here. There is a big difference between basic trial and tribulation which comes from hands of men with the powers of darkness orchestrating in the background, when compared to the wrath of God, which is coming and which is initiated directly from him, for he is the one responsible for the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments of wrath being poured out. If you want to stay here for God's wrath, you can do so. As for me, God's word says that neither I nor other believes are appointed to suffer his wrath and that he is going to keep us out of that time period.
Oh, but he has promised us:
"But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. You are all children of the light and children of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness. So then, let us not be like others, who are asleep, but let us be awake and sober. For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, get drunk at night. But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet. For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him. Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing.
Furthermore, the wrath of Rom.1:18 is not speaking about the wrath that is coming via the seals, trumpet and bowl judgments, but the result of that wrath is as follows:
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them
* At the forth seal a fourth of the earth's immediate population is killed.
* First trumpet: a third of the earth is burnt up, a third of the trees and foliage. If a third of the earth is being burnt up, then there is going to be very many fatalities that are just not mentioned here.
* Second trumpet: Something like a huge mountain all ablaze is thrown into the sea and a third of the creatures die and third of the ships are destroyed. How many people are on those ships? How many people are going to be killed in every city, town and village on every shore 360 degrees from the one thousand plus foot waves that will be generated from that object hitting in the sea?
* Third trumpet: A great star, blazing like a torch, falls on the rivers and fresh water contaminating it, the result being many people dying from drinking it. How many is many? If a third of the waters are being contaminated, you can bet that there will be many fatalities from drinking it.
* Fourth trumpet: The sun, moon and stars are darkened by a third, so that the earth will only be receiving 2/3's of its usual light. There is no inference of fatalities related to this trumpet.
* Fifth trumpet/1st woe: Demonic beings let out of the Abyss who are ordered to torment the inhabitants of the earth with tails and stings like that of scorpions who do not have the seal of God on them, which would only exclude the 144,000. This trumpet is only for the purpose of torment and no one dies as a result of this trumpet judgment.
* Sixth trumpet/2nd woe: Four angels released who are bound at the Euphrates river and gather a demonic army of 200 million who kill a third of the inhabitants of the earth via fire, sulfur and smoke that will issue from their mouths. By this time, the fatalities will be well over 5.5 billion and we haven't even gotten to the bowl judgments.
* Seven trumpet/3rd woe: Satan and angels cast out of heaven. Rejoice you heavens and those who dwell there, but WOE to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea. For the devil has gone down to you and he is filled with fury!
One can only guess as to how many people die from the following seven bowl judgments. In any case, these judgments are going to decimate the population of the earth and therefore the church cannot be here. There is a big difference between basic trial and tribulation which comes from hands of men with the powers of darkness orchestrating in the background, when compared to the wrath of God, which is coming and which is initiated directly from him, for he is the one responsible for the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments of wrath being poured out. If you want to stay here for God's wrath, you can do so. As for me, God's word says that neither I nor other believes are appointed to suffer his wrath and that he is going to keep us out of that time period.
Oh, but he has promised us:
"But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. You are all children of the light and children of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness. So then, let us not be like others, who are asleep, but let us be awake and sober. For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, get drunk at night. But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet. For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him. Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing.
Furthermore, the wrath of Rom.1:18 is not speaking about the wrath that is coming via the seals, trumpet and bowl judgments, but the result of that wrath is as follows:
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them
Every promise given to those in each seven churches applies to everyone who overcomes for all of the churches and those of the entire church period, regardless of what letter it is written in. In other words, the promise written in the letter to the church of Philadelphia is also a promise to those in the rest of the churches and to every believer throughout the entire church period. Who is the amateur? Every promise to those who overcome, regardless of which letter it is written in, is to all believers throughout the entire church period and is not just restricted to the church of Philadelphia at that time. That is why all seven letters were read in each of the seven churches and why we are reading them.
According to the interlinear, EK is defined as "out of"
No, I'm not suggesting that God cannot protect them from/out of an hour of trial. I am saying that scripture states that God has promised keep us out of it by removing us before he pours out his wrath.
According to the interlinear, EK is defined as "out of"
No, I'm not suggesting that God cannot protect them from/out of an hour of trial. I am saying that scripture states that God has promised keep us out of it by removing us before he pours out his wrath.
I have not jumped to any conclusions and that because Revelation shows that Christ will rule for a literal thousand years and that the saints will rule with him. And regarding that same literal thousand years, Satan will literally be bound in Abyss during that same time period. We have plenty of scripture that reveal characteristics of a time of peace where:
* The lion will eat straw like the Ox
* Prey and predator animals and their young will lie down together
* If a young child sticks his hand in a Cobra's den, he will not be harmed at all
* The nations will beat their weapons of war into agricultural tools and not train for war any more
* If a man lives only to be a hundred he will be thought to be cursed and dyeing at 100 as a mere child
The one thing that all of the above have in common, is for one, peace and that after the flood these characteristics have never existed and therefore, since all of God's word must take place, then these characteristic are still future and must take place.
* The lion will eat straw like the Ox
* Prey and predator animals and their young will lie down together
* If a young child sticks his hand in a Cobra's den, he will not be harmed at all
* The nations will beat their weapons of war into agricultural tools and not train for war any more
* If a man lives only to be a hundred he will be thought to be cursed and dyeing at 100 as a mere child
The one thing that all of the above have in common, is for one, peace and that after the flood these characteristics have never existed and therefore, since all of God's word must take place, then these characteristic are still future and must take place.
In the book of Revelation, there is a distinction made between believer's of the church and the believer's of the saints. From Rev.1 to the very end of Rev.3 only the word "Ekklesia" translated "Church" is mentioned and you will not see the word "Hagios" translated Saints. Likewise, you will never see the word Ekklesia/church from Rev.4 onward, but only the word Hagios/saints to describe a believer. The absence of the word church is God's way of saying that the church is no longer in the picture. It is the great tribulation saints that are introduced in Rev.7 who are those who become believers after the church has been removed, which is why they are never called the church. Don't you find it a little suspicious that the word church which is used 22 times throughout Rev.1 thru 3 and then is never used again afterwards? This is a clue from God to all who are studying his word, but obviously you missed that. Surely there are plenty of places from chapter 4 through 19 where the word church could have been replaced with the word saint, but it never is. Rev.4:1, where the voice that sounds like a trumpet which says, "Come up here" is prophetic of where the church is being caught up and that is why we do not see the word Church appear from that time forward.
As I stated earlier, the church is not in view here, but it is the great tribulation saints who will be those who will keep the testimony of Jesus and the word of God and who will be those who will resist the beast, his image and his mark. The church will be the ones who are seen following Christ out of heaven wearing white linen, fine and clean and that because the Bride is seen in Rev.19:6-8 being given their white linen at the wedding of the Lamb just before they return to the earth with Christ. We also know that this is the Bride because in Rev.17:14, it says that those with Christ will be his "called, chosen and faithful followers" which would not be a designation for angels, but for the redeemed believers.
The word "Church" is not mentioned again until Rev.22:17. The church however is in view as "the Bride" in Rev.19:6-8 as receiving her white clothing at the wedding of the Lamb. No excuses needed here. The point that I was making is that, the church is never found mentioned within the narrative of God's wrath. The wedding of the Lamb takes place in heaven where the Bride receives her white clothing sometime prior to Christ descending from heaven to earth to end the age.
As I stated earlier, the church is not in view here, but it is the great tribulation saints who will be those who will keep the testimony of Jesus and the word of God and who will be those who will resist the beast, his image and his mark. The church will be the ones who are seen following Christ out of heaven wearing white linen, fine and clean and that because the Bride is seen in Rev.19:6-8 being given their white linen at the wedding of the Lamb just before they return to the earth with Christ. We also know that this is the Bride because in Rev.17:14, it says that those with Christ will be his "called, chosen and faithful followers" which would not be a designation for angels, but for the redeemed believers.
The word "Church" is not mentioned again until Rev.22:17. The church however is in view as "the Bride" in Rev.19:6-8 as receiving her white clothing at the wedding of the Lamb. No excuses needed here. The point that I was making is that, the church is never found mentioned within the narrative of God's wrath. The wedding of the Lamb takes place in heaven where the Bride receives her white clothing sometime prior to Christ descending from heaven to earth to end the age.
lol, and you think satan was bound during that time? Seriously? The devil was not bound, he still was present, and all the demons were present during that time also. Are you trying to tell me, NOBODY sinned at all because satan was bound during that time period? If one person committed sin during that time, i assure you satan was still active and NOT bound. YOU say he was bound, because your thinking is in error. When satan is bound for a thousand years, he will not be able to tempt ANYONE, because he is bound, hello. satan is not bound now, nor has he been bound in the past, you do error believing that false doctrine.
OH MY!!! who has been telling you these things? i assure you it is not from God, nor from the Holy Spirit of TRUTH. Interpretations belong to God, NOT to men. What you see above is the reason interpretations should NEVER be given to man, because they come up with this above. Scriptures interprets Scriptures. ALL of what you interpret above comes from the mind of men, and not from God or the Holy Spirit. i will pray for you.
Woe to men that interpret the Word of God. Interpretations belong to GOD, not to men. and now it should be evident to all others who read this, why it interpretations should NEVER be in the hands of men.
^i^ responding to post #790
Have i said a mean word towards YOU, at all, if so, show it.
Have i called you any name whatsoever? if so, show it.
Where is your LOVE? Know you not you reveal who you serve by your own statements. You testify by your own comments who is in your heart. Satan also falsely accused the brethren, even as you do to me. Have i EVER done that to you? Have i EVER said a bad word against you? i have done nothing but LOVE YOU, even as i do all.
You say that i am a self-proclaim prophet, and you also accuse me of having satan as my master. Tell us then, what have i said in any post, on any thread that makes you accuse such things against me.
2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
So that you are not considered a false accuser, SHOW the reasons you now accuse me of what you say above.
i plainly teach over and over again to LOVE ONE ANOTHER, to stop obeying satan, is this why you think satan is my master, because i teach against sinning? Is it not the Truth, you falsely accuse me, not because what i teach is contrary to Scriptures, but is contrary to what YOU THINK the Truth is.
If you think me to be a false prophet, then show the FALSE, show where i have said something that is contrary to even one verse in all of Scriptures, that way you can PROVE that your accusations against me are TRUE, and you are not a false accuser of brethren. i warn you concerning this verse.
Isa_5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
i have not taught one thing contrary to any Scriptures, i teach to LOVE ONE ANOTHER, i teach to stop obeying the devil which is Jesus Christ enemy, yet you call me evil by saying satan is my master.
You despise me without a cause, without a reason. If there is a reason you despise me, then reveal that reason, what have i said or taught that you are so against? Please tell. If i have offended you in some way, then reveal it, so i can repent of it, if you do not reveal it, then how can i repent of it? If i have taught something contrary to Scriptures, then reveal it, so i can learn from you, and correct my error, but if you do not reveal, how can i correct my error? Or are you without Jesus, and have not love in you to help me.
Do you know who hates me? Those who love to sin. i teach against sin, therefore i can understand the hostility against me from those in this generation who continue to live in sins, and are unable to cease from them. i pray that you are not one of those people.
^i^ responding to post # 982
So you say and lift texts called proof texts that seemingly support your theory. Yet you cannot show that your theory is NOT a theory and has been the teaching of the Church from the beginning. All you have is man's opinion, and most of them in the last 60 years. Hardly the revelation that was given in the beginning.
The theory conflicts with scripture at every turn. It probably does not matter to someone who needs desperately to support his own theory. Theories exist because scripture is ignored, especially when it does not align with their theory.
You are certainly welcome to hold to your views as you are not alone mired in the sola scriptura milieu.
The theory conflicts with scripture at every turn. It probably does not matter to someone who needs desperately to support his own theory. Theories exist because scripture is ignored, especially when it does not align with their theory.
You are certainly welcome to hold to your views as you are not alone mired in the sola scriptura milieu.
Know you not that is what satan does, he tempts, the whole purpose of satan is to tempt, being bound is for him not to be able to tempt. Tell me, if he is bound, HOW is he bound then, if he tempts before and during and after he is bound according to you, If he tempts people before being bound, and he tempts people while being bound, How is he bound, tell me if you can? If satan can roam to and fro and tempt people, and you say he is bound, yet is still able to roam to and fro and tempt people, how is he bound? you do error not understanding what it means to be bound.
Who has claimed this? Or is this what you think?
You do not know me at all, i have made it well known throughout ChristianChat, that what i teach is from God, what He has told me. i have had many conversations with God. i have seen visions, and have had dreams of the future, i have seen the anti-christ on TV saying, "Where is your God now?" which causes millions to fall away from the faith, i have seen the mark of the Beast, and how it comes about, i have seen the one world govenment. i have spoken with two Angels of God. i clearly give credit to whom it belongs, what i teach is NOT from men, nor from my own intellect. What i teach is from God and what He has told me. If then you do not believe that which i teach, then you do not disagree with me, but with Him who told me these things. If then you disagree with anything that i teach, then show one verse in Scriptures which is contrary to what i teach. Don't care for your opinions, or what you believe is the Truth, show me Scriptures that contradict ANYTHING that i teach, which i claim is from God, i know to whom speaks with me, And He is God. So i do not hold on to man-made doctrine, i teach against man-made doctrines. God told me one time in conversation, "If what you believe contradicts even one verse in Scriptures then what you believe is WRONG"
So if you accuse me of believing man-made doctrine, then show what i have said that contradicts one verse in all of Scriptures.
my advice is but dung, But what God told me is TRUTH. If i say a verse means this or a verse means that, it is not because i have interpreted those verses to mean this or that, as if interpretations belong to men, i KNOW what those verses mean, because i asked God when He would talk with me, and He told me what they mean. And do you want to know what He told me several times when i asked what does a particular verse mean, He would say "What does it say?" i would read the verse, then He would say "That is what it means" If you desire advice from me, it would be this. Believe the Word of God and what it plainly says, and do not Believe a word than men teach you.
First off, i know not what premillinnialism is, nor do i care to learn it. i only know and teach what God has told me. You say it is very easy to determine a false teaching because it has not been from the beginning. How you can easily tell a false teaching is if that teaching contradicts even one verse in Scriptures. For example.
The teaching that satan is bound now, or has already been bound is a false teaching because it contradicts verses in Scriptures.
Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
CHAIN!!!! someone is about to be bound, NOT lose, NOT able to roam freely, CHAINED.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
So according to this inspired by God verse, when satan is bound for a thousand years, he is cast into the bottomless pit, strange that you teach he is bound, yet free to roam to and fro tempting people to sin. This verse plainly teaches because he is cast into this bottomless pit, that he is unable to deceive the nations any more. But according to your teaching, he is bound but still does deceive the nations, isn't that why we still have wars and rumors of wars because satan is still deceiving the nations?
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
So then according to this Inspired by God verse, at the time of satan being bound, is also when Jesus Christ reigns on Earth for those thousand years. If satan is bound now, why is not Christ reigning as King of all Kings of the Earth, right now? When satan is bound for a thousand years, is when Jesus Christ will reign, EXACTLY like Scriptures teach.
So, should i believe you and what you teach, which plainly contradicts plain Scriptures, or believe the Word of God and what it plainly teaches?
If what you believe contradicts even one verse in Scriptures then what you believe is WRONG. Change your belief to line up with Scriptures, DO NOT change the Scripture to line up with your belief by interpreting it. i have plainly showed you using Scriptures that contradict what you teach, change your belief to match with Scriptures, or continue to believe as you do, and change Scriptures to fit into your own belief.
False teaching is revealed by if what is being taught contradicts Scriptures.
^i^ responding to post # 985
Who has claimed this? Or is this what you think?
You do not know me at all, i have made it well known throughout ChristianChat, that what i teach is from God, what He has told me. i have had many conversations with God. i have seen visions, and have had dreams of the future, i have seen the anti-christ on TV saying, "Where is your God now?" which causes millions to fall away from the faith, i have seen the mark of the Beast, and how it comes about, i have seen the one world govenment. i have spoken with two Angels of God. i clearly give credit to whom it belongs, what i teach is NOT from men, nor from my own intellect. What i teach is from God and what He has told me. If then you do not believe that which i teach, then you do not disagree with me, but with Him who told me these things. If then you disagree with anything that i teach, then show one verse in Scriptures which is contrary to what i teach. Don't care for your opinions, or what you believe is the Truth, show me Scriptures that contradict ANYTHING that i teach, which i claim is from God, i know to whom speaks with me, And He is God. So i do not hold on to man-made doctrine, i teach against man-made doctrines. God told me one time in conversation, "If what you believe contradicts even one verse in Scriptures then what you believe is WRONG"
So if you accuse me of believing man-made doctrine, then show what i have said that contradicts one verse in all of Scriptures.
my advice is but dung, But what God told me is TRUTH. If i say a verse means this or a verse means that, it is not because i have interpreted those verses to mean this or that, as if interpretations belong to men, i KNOW what those verses mean, because i asked God when He would talk with me, and He told me what they mean. And do you want to know what He told me several times when i asked what does a particular verse mean, He would say "What does it say?" i would read the verse, then He would say "That is what it means" If you desire advice from me, it would be this. Believe the Word of God and what it plainly says, and do not Believe a word than men teach you.
First off, i know not what premillinnialism is, nor do i care to learn it. i only know and teach what God has told me. You say it is very easy to determine a false teaching because it has not been from the beginning. How you can easily tell a false teaching is if that teaching contradicts even one verse in Scriptures. For example.
The teaching that satan is bound now, or has already been bound is a false teaching because it contradicts verses in Scriptures.
Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
CHAIN!!!! someone is about to be bound, NOT lose, NOT able to roam freely, CHAINED.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
So according to this inspired by God verse, when satan is bound for a thousand years, he is cast into the bottomless pit, strange that you teach he is bound, yet free to roam to and fro tempting people to sin. This verse plainly teaches because he is cast into this bottomless pit, that he is unable to deceive the nations any more. But according to your teaching, he is bound but still does deceive the nations, isn't that why we still have wars and rumors of wars because satan is still deceiving the nations?
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
So then according to this Inspired by God verse, at the time of satan being bound, is also when Jesus Christ reigns on Earth for those thousand years. If satan is bound now, why is not Christ reigning as King of all Kings of the Earth, right now? When satan is bound for a thousand years, is when Jesus Christ will reign, EXACTLY like Scriptures teach.
So, should i believe you and what you teach, which plainly contradicts plain Scriptures, or believe the Word of God and what it plainly teaches?
If what you believe contradicts even one verse in Scriptures then what you believe is WRONG. Change your belief to line up with Scriptures, DO NOT change the Scripture to line up with your belief by interpreting it. i have plainly showed you using Scriptures that contradict what you teach, change your belief to match with Scriptures, or continue to believe as you do, and change Scriptures to fit into your own belief.
False teaching is revealed by if what is being taught contradicts Scriptures.
^i^ responding to post # 985
DiscipleDave,
I know this may sound strange, but scripture disagrees with you and does Christ Himself. This has been shown some time back already in this thread. I don't change the meaning just so I can fit a particular theory I might want to foist upon scripture.
Very simply the binding of Satan has to do with Satan losing his absolute power over death. You do realize that Christ came 2000 years ago to defeat death. He died and entered the domain of Satan, Hades, and took captive those there held by death. His resurrection guaranteed that Satan would never again have power over death. All death will be vanquished at His Second Coming.
Read the thread.
so now you make the same claim. You claim that your opinion/interpretation is of God and other mens's opinion is nothing. Sounds so familiar with a lot of other men like Joseph Smith and the more recent of them Van Summers with his NEW Revelation from God. Seems these men don't read scripture but like you need to proclaim their intellect is even greater than the Holy Spirit.
You already have done so, even in this response. see the very first paragraph.
If it is dung, then don't give any. You should study scripture more, it might help you. The Holy Spirit does not give new revelation to individual men. He gave His Revelation ONCE, via the Apostles 2000 years ago. Since then He has guarded and protected that revelation which He entrusted to His Church. It has not changed since that time, even in spite of many men trying to impose their innovative ideas upon it, including you.
prove to me it is scriptural and has always been so believed from the beginning.
precisely which is why your explanation is false because it is not found in scripture but imposed by modern man. This has been shown many times already in this thread. But if you still think that you have visions that premillennialism and an earthly reign of Christ is actually what scripture teaches and has always been believed, then cite the evidence.
So what it ends up being is all bluster and no evidence, just man's opinion and many variations of it as well. Hardly Gospel Truth from the beginning.
I know this may sound strange, but scripture disagrees with you and does Christ Himself. This has been shown some time back already in this thread. I don't change the meaning just so I can fit a particular theory I might want to foist upon scripture.
Very simply the binding of Satan has to do with Satan losing his absolute power over death. You do realize that Christ came 2000 years ago to defeat death. He died and entered the domain of Satan, Hades, and took captive those there held by death. His resurrection guaranteed that Satan would never again have power over death. All death will be vanquished at His Second Coming.
Read the thread.
so now you make the same claim. You claim that your opinion/interpretation is of God and other mens's opinion is nothing. Sounds so familiar with a lot of other men like Joseph Smith and the more recent of them Van Summers with his NEW Revelation from God. Seems these men don't read scripture but like you need to proclaim their intellect is even greater than the Holy Spirit.
You already have done so, even in this response. see the very first paragraph.
If it is dung, then don't give any. You should study scripture more, it might help you. The Holy Spirit does not give new revelation to individual men. He gave His Revelation ONCE, via the Apostles 2000 years ago. Since then He has guarded and protected that revelation which He entrusted to His Church. It has not changed since that time, even in spite of many men trying to impose their innovative ideas upon it, including you.
prove to me it is scriptural and has always been so believed from the beginning.
precisely which is why your explanation is false because it is not found in scripture but imposed by modern man. This has been shown many times already in this thread. But if you still think that you have visions that premillennialism and an earthly reign of Christ is actually what scripture teaches and has always been believed, then cite the evidence.
So what it ends up being is all bluster and no evidence, just man's opinion and many variations of it as well. Hardly Gospel Truth from the beginning.