Is the Hebrew Roots Movement a cult?

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

It sure does. But the entire Bible is full of instructions on how to live. And all of the Bible, including the Torah, can show us practically and spiritually how to treat other people.
i.e. Leviticus 19:14 "‘You shall not curse a deaf man, nor place a stumbling block before the blind, but you shall revere your God; I am the LORD."

I agree that the OT is immensely valuable for edification.

But as an example that everything in the OT is summarized in

Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. Matthew 7:12

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using the example you provided, if you were a deaf person would you want someone verbalizing evil against you that you couldn't defend yourself against; or if you were blind would you want someone putting something in your path that would cause you to trip (this can be taken physically and spiritually)?

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Of course not. So by following the above law you will fulfill anything written in the OT.

 

[crossnote]

After reading this, I'm now fully convinced that obsessive fixation on keeping old covenant laws and (assumed) practices is a clear indication that intimate knowledge of the holy spirit is partially, or completely, lacking. IMO, proponents of such wear Christian clothes, say Christian things, quote scripture, etc., etc., but they do not know what it is to be led of the holy spirit (much, or at all). IMO, GOD is an just idea in their mind that needs some point of reference (Moses law) to distinguish itself from all other ideas in order to find some kind of stability to ward off perceived threats to their world view and sense of justification. Consequently, they need clearly delineated rules that define improper conduct (as opposed to an inward life that is guided by love for others) and sensual things like HR methods and paraphernalia to stimulate the emotions and simulate the holy spirit.

And by their denegration of the Holy Spirit they approach blasphemy of Him.

 

[KohenMatt]

I agree that the OT is immensely valuable for edification.

But as an example that everything in the OT is summarized in

Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. Matthew 7:12

​

using the example you provided, if you were a deaf person would you want someone verbalizing evil against you that you couldn't defend yourself against; or if you were blind would you want someone putting something in your path that would cause you to trip (this can be taken physically and spiritually)?

Of course not. So by following the above law you will fulfill anything written in the OT.

Right, because the Torah lines up perfectly with Jesus and His commands. So no matter if you read the OT or the NT, or both (ideally), you're going to get wisdom from God (assuming you're reading and learning with the Holy Spirit).

 

[Grandpa]

Ezekiel 43:7-12 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]In their setting of their threshold by my thresholds, and their post by my posts, and the wall between me and them, they have even defiled my holy name by their abominations that they have committed: wherefore I have consumed them in mine anger.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Now let them put away their whoredom, and the carcases of their kings, far from me, and I will dwell in the midst of them for ever.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Thou son of man, shew the house to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities: and let them measure the pattern.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And if they be ashamed of all that they have done, shew them the form of the house, and the fashion thereof, and the goings out thereof, and the comings in thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the laws thereof: and write it in their sight, that they may keep the whole form thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and do them.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]This is the law of the house; Upon the top of the mountain the whole limit thereof round about shall be most holy. Behold, this is the law of the house.

Psalm 89:32 (KJV)
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.

Isaiah 11:1-4 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

Revelation 12:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Revelation 19:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

By these scripture references it does appear that Jesus will rule during the millennium and rule using the moral and judgmental law. The sacrificial part has been fulfilled by Christ, the King of Kings.

Now its coming out.

You think that Christ has only fulfilled some of the law.

Poor kids... Don't you know that Christ has fulfilled ALL THE LAW, every jot and tittle??

1 Corinthians 4:20-21
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness?


John 15:12-14
[SUP]12 [/SUP]This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

How does the Lord Love us?
He cleans the Lepers of their unclean-ness.
He gives sight to the blind.
He gives the Father-less a Father.
He gives the widow a husband.
He shows those in Prison where and who Freedom is.

The Lord Jesus Christ still loves us and is still doing these things. I am a witness of His Love and mercy on undeserving sinners that are (were) trapped in the prison of their own iniquity.

I can try to reason with you for another 45 pages but unless you come to the Source of All Blessings and strive to stay there, it will be like trying to describe rainbows to blind men.

You either have the desire to come out of prison or you just think you are supposed to wander around in the desert because that is what Gods chosen people did.

Lets not stay in the desert. Let's listen to Caleb and Joshua this time... Flip the script in the name of Jesus Christ. You mighty man of Valor...

 

[Grandpa]

It sure does. But the entire Bible is full of instructions on how to live. And all of the Bible, including the Torah, can show us practically and spiritually how to treat other people.

i.e.
Leviticus 19:14 "‘You shall not curse a deaf man, nor place a stumbling block before the blind, but you shall revere your God; I am the LORD."

Its not about your works. Its not about how to live a better life through the law.

Its about bringing people to the Lord Jesus Christ so the Lord can lead them, personally.

If you tell a blind person that the law is designed for you to be blessed and live a good life that doesn't bring them to Christ. That stumbles them...

The law is designed for you to try and obey perfectly and be perfect before God. If you can't do it then ask for Help. When He comes to Help you won't ever forget where your Help is.

 

[unclefester]

It sure does. But the entire Bible is full of instructions on how to live. And all of the Bible, including the Torah, can show us practically and spiritually how to treat other people.

i.e.
Leviticus 19:14 "‘You shall not curse a deaf man, nor place a stumbling block before the blind, but you shall revere your God; I am the LORD."

Its not about your works. Its not about how to live a better life through the law.

Its about bringing people to the Lord Jesus Christ so the Lord can lead them, personally.

If you tell a blind person that the law is designed for you to be blessed and live a good life that doesn't bring them to Christ. That stumbles them...

The law is designed for you to try and obey perfectly and be perfect before God. If you can't do it then ask for Help. When He comes to Help you won't ever forget where your Help is.

Thanks anyways ... but I don't have to ask for help. I'm just going to follow these instructions Somebody pass me a "combination" wrench.

 

[KohenMatt]

Its not about your works. Its not about how to live a better life through the law.

Does the quality of life and our actions matter once we accepted Jesus' Salvation?

Its about bringing people to the Lord Jesus Christ so the Lord can lead them, personally.

True, that is the most important thing.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Right, because the Torah lines up perfectly with Jesus and His commands. So no matter if you read the OT or the NT, or both (ideally), you're going to get wisdom from God (assuming you're reading and learning with the Holy Spirit).

I don't think one can really fully understand the NT without reading (with comprehension) the OT.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Thanks anyways ... but I don't have to ask for help. I'm just going to follow these instructions Somebody pass me a "combination" wrench.

Would an adjustable metric wrench work? Or would you need an adjustable SAE?

 

[just-me]

Originally Posted by Grandpa

Its about bringing people to the Lord Jesus Christ so the Lord can lead them, personally. end quote...

That's right, and the law is our schoolmaster to lead us to Christ. When ministering to others who don't know Christ, and we don't pay any attention to the schoolmaster because we have faith for an excuse, what avenue are we going to endorse for the lost to be truly saved. I exhort all Christians to know the schoolmaster, as much in detail as we can, even after we receive faith, for the sake of conceiving children into the kingdom of God without a false conversion based only on the promise of heaven rather than being saved from a certain death.

 

[crossnote]

Does the quality of life and our actions matter once we accepted Jesus' Salvation?


True, that is the most important thing.

Sure it matters, that's why it is the FRUIT of the SPIRIT and not a matter of the WORKS of the FLESH ...i.e. our own efforts of the law.

 

[crossnote]

2 Corinthians 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

Would an adjustable metric wrench work? Or would you need an adjustable SAE?

Yeah let's make an adjustment...I don't think one can fully understand the ot without first grasping their freedom in Christ. (see post 908)

 

[KohenMatt]

Sure it matters, that's why it is the FRUIT of the SPIRIT and not a matter of the WORKS of the FLESH ...i.e. our own efforts of the law.

Does the Spirit ask us to do works, or anything physical?

 

[crossnote]

Does the Spirit ask us to do works, or anything physical?

He works in us BOTH to will and to do His good pleasure.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

2 Corinthians 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

Yeah let's make an adjustment...I don't think one can fully understand the ot without first grasping their freedom in Christ. (see post 908)

That's true; it goes both ways...

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Does the Spirit ask us to do works, or anything physical?

Not specifically. Works are acts of faith and love.

 

[RedTent]

The Holy Ghost...
Is He impotent that He cannot act?
Is he dumb that He cannot speak?
Is He lawless that He won't chastise us when we go against Him?
Is not His love shed abroad in our hearts?
Is He uneducated that He is not the Author and teacher of His Word?
(and He dwells in me)
Does He not point us to Christ who tells us 'your faith has made you whole'?
Is He so confused that He can't draw both Jew and Gentile to the Son.
Christ broke down the dividing wall at His death, are you trying to rebuild it?

If we followed your interpretation of God's principles we would be back at Mt. Sinai groveling in bondage.
(This may sound harsh, but reread your post to me)

Crossnote, you truly have a wall built up against much of what God is telling you, and basing it on some truths that God does tell us so I despair of getting your mind to accept the whole truth! What you have accepted is so wonderful, so good. You need to keep all of it in your belief system. But add to it what Christ says about how He affects the law. Add that faith without works is dead. Add the 119th psalm. What you have in your heart is good, God has more for you to make it really truth.

 

[Grandpa]

Does the quality of life and our actions matter once we accepted Jesus' Salvation?


.

The Salvation of the Lord Jesus Christ has improved greatly the quality of my life.

The Holy Spirit is what leads us and gives us this quality of life. But its not really about this life. If you are mostly concerned with this life then you aren't concerned with the Lord Jesus Christ.

gotta go. ironically enough I have work to do...

 

[KohenMatt]

Not specifically. Works are acts of faith and love.

So couldn't acts of faith and love include instructions in the Torah, assuming it is by the leading of the Holy Spirit?

 

[just-me]

Crossnote, you truly have a wall built up against much of what God is telling you, and basing it on some truths that God does tell us so I despair of getting your mind to accept the whole truth! What you have accepted is so wonderful, so good. You need to keep all of it in your belief system. But add to it what Christ says about how He affects the law. Add that faith without works is dead. Add the 119th psalm. What you have in your heart is good, God has more for you to make it really truth.

2 Peter 1:5-10 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: