Is there ever any condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus?

Grace777x70 · Apr 14, 2017

Roughsoul1991 said:

Yes...lose your faith for things that are true and we will be ship-wrecked in this life and not experience the life of Christ that is in the new creation.

For example: If I don't believe that God will look after my needs - I will not experience His peace which is a fruit of the spirit. If I die not believing that God will look after my needs and try to do it myself - my faith is shipwrecked for obtaining the peace that is mine in Christ.

I will be experiencing death and not the life of God which is in Christ while in this earth. The renewing of the mind is paramount to walking in freedom and in the grace and love of God.

It is with faith and patience that we inherit the promises of God. Hold on to your faith that God will provide for us and we will experience not only His peace in the midst of the storm but also see His provision in manifestation.

Now, here is the real question - do I go to hell now because of this ship-wrecked faith and not experiencing the fruit of the spirit which is peace? Of course not.

Grace777x70 · Apr 14, 2017

Here is another view of what it means to have a ship-wrecked faith - if anyone is interested in this subject. It does not mean "go to hell" as some try to say. But people are free to have their own faith before God.

https://escapetoreality.org/2013/01/30/shipwrecked-faith/

Grace777x70 · Apr 14, 2017

John146 said:

I read them and don't see any condemnation from God in those chapters.

know1 · Apr 14, 2017

preacher4truth said:

The fact is that there were two different versions of the bible. One was forged by the Catholic church, and the other was not. One is corrupt, and the other, not.
The latter half wasn't added in the newer but erased from the older. Like I said, and you can check the figures for yourself, 95% or so, of the manuscripts found, AGREE WITH the textus receptus.

[FONT=Arimo, sans-serif]The figure belowgives an example of Sinaiticus’ many corrections.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arimo, sans-serif]Exampleof Sinaiticus Corrections[/FONT][FONT=Arimo, sans-serif]15[/FONT]

What do you see when you look at this parchment?
Do you see any deletions or text that has been erased or omitted?
Do you see any text that has been added?
Does that look like something they copied from an earlier parchment? could they have been so stupid as to make so many error that they had to go back and erase and add text.
I think it, not.
What you believe is what your itching ears want to hear, NOT the truth.
If there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus then please explain this.

1Co 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
1Co 11:28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
1Co 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
1Co 11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
1Co 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

know1 · Apr 14, 2017

John146 said:

1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
1Pe 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

Yes, I believe scripture covers the judgement of the church.
But wait, that would involve condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, and we can't be condemned because it's not written in the new translations of the bible.

Dan58 · Apr 14, 2017

Only if they freely walk away from Christ Jesus..

Grace777x70 · Apr 14, 2017

know1 said:

I absolutely love that scripture in 1 Peter 4! We can see that in context it is talking about suffering as a Christian for our faith. See verses 12-16

The scripture in 1 Peter 4 about judgment in the house of God must come first is a beautiful promise of the sealing of God's people off before judgment comes.

1 Peter 4:17-18 (KJV)

[SUP]17 [/SUP] For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

[SUP]18 [/SUP] And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

Peter was the apostle to the Hebrews and Peter being a good Jewish man would have heard this spoken off in the OT.

It is a hebraism ( expression ) from Ezekiel 9:4-6 in which they had set aside the jewish elders and marked them before judgment came. These ones were saved from the judgment.

In other words we get protected/marked by the Spirit of God before judgment comes ..but judgment starts at the house of God first by us being "marked"...that's the sign that judgment is coming to the ungodly as 1 Peter 4:17-18 says.

It's awesome!! It's a beautiful picture of us being sealed by the Holy Spirit just like Paul says in Eph. 1:13 & Eph. 4:30.

Those that do not obey the gospel in verse 17 are those that reject Christ as Savior.

We have a good, good Father! And a mighty salvation in Jesus our Lord!

limey410 · Apr 14, 2017

Marcelo said:

To simplify it would do it an injustice to the amount of study needed on this book, but simply put, it means that if you are saved you cannot, no matter how much you try, be re-saved.
Christ died on the cross once.
You can't put Him back on it. Holding Him up to contempt means that you are not believing in what he accomplished, once for all.

Essentially if you are continually, sinning, repenting and failing, you are not looking toward Him and walking with Him, but if you are saved your salvation is complete, as supported by the scriptures.

Hebrews was written to the saved Hebrews in Jerusalem and they were still struggling mightily with the Law, and they were disbelieving the promise of Christ and kept heading back to the temple to participate in the rituals and festivals of the unsaved Jews which essentially held contempt for what Jesus did for them.

I don't know how well I explained that, but this verse if often misused for the purpose of telling people that they can indeed lose their salvation. If you read all of Hebrews, our complete salvation is written all over it. So either this verse contradicts what is written, or some folks are misinterpreting what is written.

I personally believe God doesn't contradict Himself, so therefore it is humans that misunderstand the verses they read, based on any given perspective that they may have at the time

know1 · Apr 14, 2017

Dino246 said:

Regarding the bolded part, neither the Sinaiticus nor the Vaticanus was available to the translators of the KJV. Sinaiticus was only uncovered in 1844 (source: Codex Sinaiticus - History ).

The Vaticanus was held in the Vatican but was also not available for reference by the translators. Erasmus contacted Bombasius (who worked at the Vatican) in 1521 concerning the Comma Johanneum (1 John 5:7) as recorded in Vaticanus (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Vaticanus). Erasmus apparently did not see it himself. The text of Vaticanus was not printed widely until the 19th century.

The KJV translators used Erasmus' five printed editions, along with those of Stephanus and Beza, in the compilation of the KJV. For further information, check out James White's The King James Only Controversy (2nd ed.).

My apologies sir, you are correct. I read something years ago and got my facts messed up, off the top of my head.

Roughsoul1991 · Apr 14, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

1 Peter 4 has the same belief that it is held throughout the NT for those who remain in Christ their sins are forgiven. For those who walk away freely, their sins have no longer a sacrifice. It goes back to the earnest agreement that man has to uphold his side in a true faith. Man turns from faith in the heart and denys christ in the heart and or living likewarm being a fan of christ following scripture they like but denying the hard scripture, ends the same way Christ died to save all who believe. Which means they must remain faithful until the end.

Roughsoul1991 · Apr 14, 2017

limey410 said:

To simplify it would do it an injustice to the amount of study needed on this book, but simply put, it means that if you are saved you cannot, no matter how much you try, be re-saved.
Christ died on the cross once.
You can't put Him back on it. Holding Him up to contempt means that you are not believing in what he accomplished, once for all.

Essentially if you are continually, sinning, repenting and failing, you are not looking toward Him and walking with Him, but if you are saved your salvation is complete, as supported by the scriptures.

Hebrews was written to the saved Hebrews in Jerusalem and they were still struggling mightily with the Law, and they were disbelieving the promise of Christ and kept heading back to the temple to participate in the rituals and festivals of the unsaved Jews which essentially held contempt for what Jesus did for them.

I don't know how well I explained that, but this verse if often misused for the purpose of telling people that they can indeed lose their salvation. If you read all of Hebrews, our complete salvation is written all over it. So either this verse contradicts what is written, or some folks are misinterpreting what is written.

I personally believe God doesn't contradict Himself, so therefore it is humans that misunderstand the verses they read, based on any given perspective that they may have at the time

If your admitting he was talking to believers then how do you interpreted fall away then?

truthhurts · Apr 15, 2017

Romans 8.1 and the rest of Romans 8 is properly interpreted through Romans 7.....

limey410 · Apr 15, 2017

Roughsoul1991 said:

Its exactly that. Falling away.

Believers fall away all of the time, they lose faith, mostly in the false doctrines that are being taught.

But that doesn't mean God falls away from them. They are saved, and cannot be re-saved.

That is what the writer is explaining to the Hebrews, in spite of their falling back in to the trappings of the temple and the Mosaic Law. He is imploring them to leave the temple and come in to the presence of the Lord under the New Covenant.

If you haven't done so already, take some time and read the book of Hebrews, it was obviously written by a very mature believer (Possibly Paul) who knew a lot about the Jewish way of life, and how difficult it would be to leave that way of life.
But he explains that there is a much better way to live under the mercy of the New Covenant and get away from the Law and its bondage.

truthhurts · Apr 15, 2017

limey410 said:

Its exactly that. Falling away.

Believers fall away all of the time, they lose faith, mostly in the false doctrines that are being taught.

But that doesn't mean God falls away from them. They are saved, and cannot be re-saved.

That is what the writer is explaining to the Hebrews, in spite of their falling back in to the trappings of the temple and the Mosaic Law. He is imploring them to leave the temple and come in to the presence of the Lord under the New Covenant.

If you haven't done so already, take some time and read the book of Hebrews, it was obviously written by a very mature believer (Possibly Paul) who knew a lot about the Jewish way of life, and how difficult it would be to leave that way of life.
But he explains that there is a much better way to live under the mercy of the New Covenant and get away from the Law and its bondage.

My vote is that Apollos wrote Hebrews...

limey410 · Apr 15, 2017

truthhurts said:

Maybe. We will find out for sure soon enough

Rockrz · Apr 15, 2017

Condemnation can come upon believers when we walk after the flesh and not after the Spirit

Exactly... and WE are the ones who decide whether we will walk after the flesh or after the Spirit.

The only way some come to this false conclusion that one converted can come into condemnation again is to add the heresy of free will in the mix

False teachers teach that position often and it's not scriptural... too bad for you that you have been deceived into believing man is not created in God's image as God said man is.

You'll learn the error of your ways soon enough...

Galatians 5:18
But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Galatians 6:7,8
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Who is deciding to sow to the flesh or sow to the Spirit... according to the Lord, man is.

There's no voting in God's Kingdom... He's always right!

It's the Word of the Lord... that's all we need to know.

limey410 · Apr 15, 2017

Rockrz said:

Paul is specifically talking to the Galatians about circumcision.
The flesh is the Law.
The Jewish converts were still trying to get folks to abide in the Law, to become a Jew before you could be saved (become circumcised). That was a false doctrine and profited Christ nothing.
If you were of the circumcision, living by the Law, then you were not of the Spirit living under Grace. You were then rejecting what the Messiah did on the cross for your salvation, and were relying on the law and the flesh for your salvation, which will never work.
It is not in reference to a saved person living in sin being booted from glory!!!

Roughsoul1991 · Apr 15, 2017

limey410 said:

Galatians 4:8-11Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
Paul is speaking to the Christians in Galatia in concerned for their living starting at Galatians 4:8 and continues over into 9. Why does many people think the letters are only directed to non believers when the warnings begin. But when the praises start yall say thats directed to me and ignore the resr of it. That makes no sense since each letter is written to believers. Yes in some areas they are only talking to the church and we can learn from the reason why they are being praised or being rebuked. In many areas we can learn from the warnings to the churchs.
Paul’s Concern for the Galatians
8 But in the past, when you didn’t know God, you were enslaved to things[a] that by nature are not gods. 9 But now, since you know God, or rather have become known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and bankrupt elemental forces? Do you want to be enslaved to them all over again? 10 You observe special days, months, seasons, and years. 11 I am fearful for you, that perhaps my labor for you has been wasted.

Rockrz · Apr 15, 2017

That's a lie... all sorts of references of to walking after the flesh making it possible to fall away as being sin and causing one to not enter the Kingdom of God. Just to help you out, here's a few you obviously don't know about:

[FONT=&quot]Galatians 6:7,8[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
For he that sows to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that sows to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man sows, that shall he also reap.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]1 Cor 15:50[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Romans 2:7[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that does evil[/FONT][FONT=&quot], of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]But glory, honor, and peace, to every man that works good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]For there is no respect of persons with God.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]MAJOR Warning from the Lord[/FONT][FONT=&quot]![/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot](*This means we really should pay attention)[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
Hebrews 3:6-19
But Christ as a son over His own house; whose house are we, IF we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end. (see Mark 4:14-20)
Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, today if ye will hear His voice,
Harden NOT your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do always err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
So I swore in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
For we are made partakers of Christ, IF we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
While it is said, Today if ye will hear His voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
But with whom was He grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
And to whom sware He that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. (see James 2:14-26)

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Hebrews 12:5-11[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaks unto you as unto children, My son, despise not the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked (corrected) of him: (see John 16:8-13)
For whom the Lord loves he chastens, and scourges every son whom he receives.
If ye endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chastens not?
But if you be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but He for our profit, that we might be partakers of His holiness.
Now no chastening for the present seems to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby. (see also: 1 Corinthians 11:26-32)

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Romans 8:1[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:6
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Romans 8:13,14
For if you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if you through the Spirit do mortify (put to death) the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]John 8:34[/FONT][FONT=&quot] (Companion verse to Romans 5:17 thru Romans 6:19)
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever commits sin is the servant of sin.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]1 John 5:16[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

*** It's entirely possible for a "brother" to sin unto death and we should not pray for that... this is what Paul when he turned someone over to satan for the destruction of their flesh - he washed his hands of them and ceased to pray for them and the hope here is that they will reap of the corruption they have sown and come to themselves and realize they must return unto the Lord.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Warnings to CONTINUE in our Relationship with the Lord[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

Romans 11:13-22
For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
For if the first fruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, were graffed in among them, and with them partake of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bear not the root, but the root thee.
Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Well; [/FONT][FONT=&quot]because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou stand by faith. Be not high minded, but fear:
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]*Notice it says “IF you continue in His goodness”… very, very strong evidence that OSAS is not true as it is being taught in the end times church... greatly contributing to great falling away

*[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Companion scripture is John 8:31-32 - If you continue in my word, then are you my disciples indeed; and you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free..[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

1 Timothy 4:16
Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Colossians 1:21-23[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]*IF we continue in the faith… and be not moved away from the hope of the Gospel

*The Father says where there is no vision, the people perish (Proverbs 29:18) the “hope of the Gospel” is the mind of Christ, seeing things from Jesus' perspective which is the wisdom from God that comes from above instead of following the wisdom from below which is earthly, sensual, and devilish (James 3:15)[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][/FONT] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Revelation 3:5[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
He that overcomes, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Revelation 3:5[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
He that overcomes, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Some modern day preachers flat out deny this verse as though Jesus lied, or was mis-informed or something. Clearly this does not fit in to their doctrine so they have to ignore it or explain it away somehow.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

Revelation 2:11
He that overcomes shall not be hurt of the second death.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Overcome = walking in the Spirit = allowing the Holy Spirit to live in us. James 4:7,8 - Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands sinners and purify your hearts you that are double minded.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

Revelation 20:15
Whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

[/FONT]

John146 · Apr 15, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

Have you interpreted Romans 8:1 as to the condemnation having to be from God? If so, why?

Who made those believers in 1 Corinthians 11 weak, sick, and some even died?

Is there ever any condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus?

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