Is there place for reasoning in discussions about Christianity?

[Pearlie]

In South Africa our playful expression of exasperation is 'Eish'. So, Eish Bryancampbell, nobody said you should not talk to him, the basic tex on reasoning suggests that alcohol impairs reasoning. I can't discern whether your tongue is firmly stuck in your cheek but just in case it is not.....I will put you and your friend on my prayer list. You are looking for a guiding scripture....you may find 1 Corinthians 13:4-13 useful in this regard.

 

[Bryancampbell]

I am not joking...but thanks for praying just in case.... He became a good friend of mine and we did somewhat reason...thanks again..

 

[directline2iam]

Basic texts on analytical and critical thinking skills tell us a few things:

1. Do not reason with someone who is drunk;
2. Do not reason with someone who is not of sound mind (insane);
3. Do not reason with someone who has made a decision to be unreasonable;
4. The most difficult arguments are those involving religion, sex, race, morals, etc.

On point 4 and focussing on religion or to be more specific, Christianity: One of the reasons why these arguments are difficult is that the scriptures are open to interpretation when not everything is known about the context in which a historical event is captured (e.g. in the Old Testament) or different interpretations are made of parables, similes, analogies and metaphors used to teach in the books of the bible.

I am deeply disappointed in a number of the threads in this forum. The fruits of the holy spirit, especially self-control, patience and peace are so lacking from many of the 'senior' members of this forum that it is difficult to learn from the posts. I have to wade through two or more people SCREAMING at each other to extract valid points and biblical references to help me grow my own understanding of the bible.

If you know of a gentler chat forum where the focus is on learning and guests behave with respect and civility then please direct me to it. I am far from timid but really, this is disturbing. As soon as I receive some guidance on more suitable sites I will leave you all to it.

Thank you to kinder souls who have helped me grow. God Bless.

You are just the kind of person this site needs, so please consider staying on.

 

[Pearlie]

Thank you directline2iam, a little civility goes such a long way. I was mostly despondent because I actually enjoy the topics and learn from the disagreements that are handled better. I have to a large extent also identified the 'devil's advocates' (what an apt name for them on this site) who try and derail discussions to appear clever.

 

[Starcrash]

I know a few people that are able to talk about the Bible, and be relatively civil.

I think why we have so much arguments ; people believe these two verse don't apply to them :


2 Peter 1:20-21



20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.



Christians can be very stiff necked. There is also lazy attitude towards looking carefully at what the Bible says.

The Bible gives you a simple equation, 5 + 5. We are all given the same problem , everyone should get the same answer , which is 10. If some one is getting instead, a 6 , or 66 or a 666, then there is a problem ; not with the scriptures, but with their, understanding.

That would be nice if it were true, but it's apparently not. The differences in interpretation aren't due to a "lazy attitude" but due to the fact that words can have more than one meaning, a passage can be read as literal or metaphorical, the meanings of phrases are sometimes lost in translation, and Christians often have motives to make a passage mean something other than its obvious interpretation. The analogy to math is a poor one, because numbers don't have the ambiguity that words do (although, if you believe that the bible is perfect and literally true, then I'm sure you can find ways to make numbers ambiguous, in much the same manner that we've heard Christians try to make Jesus' death that lasted less than 36 hours = 3 days.)

If God were real, and Christians had real contact with Him, then we would expect only one interpretation of scripture -- when there was disagreement, those disagreeing could simply ask Him which one of them is right. But this doesn't happen. Catholics and Protestants have huge differences in bible interpretation, and both of them believe that God falls on their side of it. If only God's words could be heard in an objective way (out loud and in clear language) then these differences wouldn't exist...

 

[Starcrash]

Thank you directline2iam, a little civility goes such a long way. I was mostly despondent because I actually enjoy the topics and learn from the disagreements that are handled better. I have to a large extent also identified the 'devil's advocates' (what an apt name for them on this site) who try and derail discussions to appear clever.

One does not need to have a motive to "derail discussions to appear clever" in order to play the devil's advocate -- what an awful bit of prejudice! Reasonable people can have real differences of opinion. Besides, if your side of the debate is correct, then hearing an opposing point-of-view is just another opportunity to demonstrate this to be true. If there was no one bringing up possible problems with your viewpoint, then 1) you'd be taken off guard upon being presented with the opposite viewpoint when debating an opponent and would not have a ready response, and 2) you may be wrong and never learn about it to correct it. While everyone would like to think they are right all of the time, we're all presented with evidence of our mistakes on a regular basis; we're fallible. If we never recognize our mistakes, there's no opportunity to fix them.

 

[Pearlie]

Thank you for your contribution Starcrash. That is exactly what I am looking for...an opportunity to learn and challenge my mistaken beliefs, misconceptions and prejudices. My bible knowledge and the teachings contained therein is embarrassingly lacking. That is why I am here, to address this area of weakness. I have no problem at all with differences in opinion but in the WAY these differences are expressed.

“Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear.” – Ephesians 4:29

“Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you ought to answer each person.” – Colossians 4:6

“I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak.” – Matthew 12:36

“For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.” – Matthew 12:37

“If you claim to be religious but don’t control your tongue, you are fooling yourself, and your religion is worthless.” – James 1:26

 

[brmicke]

We simply need to understand that we all see through a glass darkly. Actually - we are all wrong in some area. We are all being taught good from evil -

1Co 8:2 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.

Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. {of full age: or, perfect} {use: or, an habit, or, perfection}
(KJV)

Also we need to each keep in mind at all times that the way we treat each other is the way we treat the Lord Himself,

Mt 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
(KJV)

Respectfully - Brian

 

[J-Kay]

Pearlie, I stand guilty I suppose as one you possibly might
consider falling in the catagory you are speaking about.
I know of two incidents I did get upset enough to speak out
about. One was a discussion of sexual nature I felt should have
been on a womans private forum. The other was a precious
young Christian sharing the Word in Truth, and before all was
said and done, he was being mocked. I was defensive and yes,
scolded those who were trying to take away the truth God had
given him to share on a Christian group.

I do admire your speaking out and touch my heart and make me
think about posting my thoughts. Often I need to think first,
before I hit REPLY.

Asking forgiveness to those who have been victimized by my
outspoken views.

 

[Pearlie]

Thats all I am saying Brian. Disagree with respect. I am the first to say that I may be absolutely wrong in my views but when somebody resorts to character-assassination to make a point then I, a mere mortal, find it difficult to learn from that interaction.

 

[Pearlie]

Dear J-Kay, if I could share with just one person my desire (not a judgement on any other) to be thoughtful and gentle in their approach then Jesus is glorified indeed. I have often thought that my gentle nature was a weakness, a character-flaw. But as a teacher myself I have found that setting a safe and inviting tone for learning is half the lesson taught. I am mindful of this wonderful lesson:

A new commandment I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. All men will know that you are My disciples if you love one another. (John 13:34, 35)

The little hymn that is based on this scripture often rings in my head when I feel impatience brewing and I am able to stop myself quickly.

 

[p_rehbein]

Pearlie, I stand guilty I suppose as one you possibly might
consider falling in the catagory you are speaking about.
I know of two incidents I did get upset enough to speak out
about. One was a discussion of sexual nature I felt should have
been on a womans private forum. The other was a precious
young Christian sharing the Word in Truth, and before all was
said and done, he was being mocked. I was defensive and yes,
scolded those who were trying to take away the truth God had
given him to share on a Christian group.

I do admire your speaking out and touch my heart and make me
think about posting my thoughts. Often I need to think first,
before I hit REPLY.

Asking forgiveness to those who have been victimized by my
outspoken views.

............I too am sometimes guilty of "being swift to speak........"

James 1:17) Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
18 .) Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
19 .) Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
20 .) For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
21 .) Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
22 .) But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 .) For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 .) For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 .) But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.