Is there such a thing as an atheist?

[IntoTheVoid]

So what would a universe without a designer look like?

What universe have you got to compare this one to to know if it's designed or not?

The other things you mentioned can be contrasted and compared to nature to know if they are designed or not.

What are you contrasting and comparing the universe to?


Plus, you don't have to accept AFARM... Again, what's wrong with saying 'I Don't Know'?

 

[nl]

... what's wrong with saying 'I Don't Know'?

Right and wrong need a reference grid for navigation and measurement. I think that Almighty God provides that reference grid.

Right and wrong are something that we all recognize when we evaluate others. Measuring ourselves against the same standard can be more difficult but the bright light makes some things show up that would otherwise be hidden.

"I don't know" has been an excuse used by some who did know. This excuse has been used in courtrooms and used widely.

On the other hand, "I don't know" can be a humble and honest answer in other circumstances.

May abundant blessings be yours.

 

[robbomango]

Where have I ever stated that I believed that?

My apologies Void, I confused your position with another poster.

 

[IntoTheVoid]

Right and wrong need a reference grid for navigation and measurement. I think that Almighty God provides that reference grid.

Right and wrong are something that we all recognize when we evaluate others. Measuring ourselves against the same standard can be more difficult but the bright light makes some things show up that would otherwise be hidden.

"I don't know" has been an excuse used by some who did know. This excuse has been used in courtrooms and used widely.

On the other hand, "I don't know" can be a humble and honest answer in other circumstances.

May abundant blessings be yours.

"I don't know" is an honest answer in my case. And no one really knows, otherwise there would be only one answer and there's not only one answer... There are multiple explanations out there.

 

[Jda016]

I'm quite happy to say that I don't know how it all strarted. But I certainly can't subscribe to tales of fantasy about talking animals and magic trees etc.

That may have been an acceptable answer a few thousand years ago but it certainly isn't an acceptable answer now.

Just an observation, but from a clearly logical point of view, it is far more likely that an infinite God exists who created all things (and thus has the power to give an animal the ability to talk for a brief time) than it is to believe the Big Bang created all things out of literally nothing (which is what science espouses).

A. An explosion of nothingness created all things.

or

B. An infinite God created all things.

I'm sorry but point A sounds a lot more like magic than point B.

(and you may not even believe the Big Bang theory, but I am just stating my thoughts.)

 

[IntoTheVoid]

Your assuming there are only 2 possible explanations though. That in itself is a problem.

Ok. Let's assume then that there is a creator.

Do you agree that you still have a long way to go to prove it was your particular god that created it?

 

[JesusLives]

Here's what the bible tells me..

Snakes and donkeys can talk.

Light can exist and the day/night cycle can pass without the sun.

There are magic trees

Dead people can come back to life.

People can turn into salt.

Fire breathing sea monsters!

Flaming Swords!

Virgin women can give birth.

Hell is below the surface of the earth.

Angels, demons, devils and giants!

To name but a few...

What about the instructional parts? The ones that encourage us to love one another and treat each other as we would want to be treated? There is far more of these kinds of instructions than the ones you have listed above. God however is named as the creator in the bible and if He can create out of nothing then a talking donkey would be easy. We have a beginning and an end so it is hard for us to understand the opposite which is a God that has no beginning and no end just always been.

 

[doseofreality]

Just an observation, but from a clearly logical point of view, it is far more likely that an infinite God exists who created all things (and thus has the power to give an animal the ability to talk for a brief time) than it is to believe the Big Bang created all things out of literally nothing (which is what science espouses).

A. An explosion of nothingness created all things.

or

B. An infinite God created all things.

I'm sorry but point A sounds a lot more like magic than point B.

(and you may not even believe the Big Bang theory, but I am just stating my thoughts.)

Why do people assume the big bang came from nothing??
Nothing doesn't go Bang

The idea is that something caused the inflation/expansion of the observable universe, but we dont know what it was.
There is a huge difference between "something we dont know of" and "nothing at all"
Logic says that if there was literally nothing before the big bang.... then nothing would have happened.

Anyway the point I am making is that you are painting a wrong picture of the 2 sides to make it seem like "God creating" is more plausible than "something else we dont know yet creating" by saying its nothing.

 

[Jda016]

Your assuming there are only 2 possible explanations though. That in itself is a problem.

Ok. Let's assume then that there is a creator.

Do you agree that you still have a long way to go to prove it was your particular god that created it?

Well, those two explanations are the most commonly and largely held ideas as to where we came from. Can you think of another idea that even comes close?

No. As I already stated previously, The Father has already revealed Himself to me through His Son, Jesus Christ.

You once told me that you are 100% certain there is no God. I am 100% certain there is a God and He is revealed through Christ.

however, no amount of debate will ever convince you of this. =)

"I am The Lord, and there is no other; There is no God besides me." (Isaiah 45:5)

 

[robbomango]

I don't believe in magic, I believe an intelligent creator formed the Universe and all living things.

We can create our own worlds right on computers, we can create different creatures, planets etc.. With modern printers we can 3 dimensionally print objects right off our desktop and have a working 3D model in minutes. This would have looked like magic a thousand years ago, obviously it's not. We use 2 bit binary code to program with, we've found 4 bit code right inside the living cell. Modern security helps one person be many places at once, similar to omnipresence. We discovered energy can be converted into matter and vice versa. None of these ideas are considered magic yet when God displays more advanced versions of them that's what it is called.

Our intelligence should bring us closer to God not further away...

 

[Jda016]

Why do people assume the big bang came from nothing??
Nothing doesn't go Bang

The idea is that something caused the inflation/expansion of the observable universe, but we dont know what it was.
There is a huge difference between "something we dont know of" and "nothing at all"
Logic says that if there was literally nothing before the big bang.... then nothing would have happened.

Anyway the point I am making is that you are painting a wrong picture of the 2 sides to make it seem like "God creating" is more plausible than "something else we dont know yet creating" by saying its nothing.

Hah! If only I was just trying to make my side sound better!

I have read from high school text books, word for word, that the Big Bang literally came from nothing. THIS is what America teaches it's children.

 

[doseofreality]

Hah! If only I was just trying to make my side sound better!

I have read from high school text books, word for word, that the Big Bang literally came from nothing. THIS is what America teaches it's children.

Oh well in that case, I recant my prev post to you.

And I submit that the textbooks are wrong!

 

[mustaphadrink]

Plus, you don't have to accept AFARM... Again, what's wrong with saying 'I Don't Know'?

If you care to delve into the land of reality you will find that most atheists DO NOT say they don't know. Most of them say that they are right and everyone else is wrong even to the point that they will post their opinion and claim it is fact.

I am reminded of an atheist who posted "WE NEVER DO ANYTHING WRONG."

And judging by the comments here, if you do not accept AFARM you have a screw loose.

FYI, this site is dedicated to belief in God, his word and his son Jesus. The fact that you are here and implying we are all wrong does suggest to me that you do believe you do know as you never ask questions, you only pontificate on your opinions and expect us to believe them and accept them as fact and you get very upset when we don't, especially as you cannot answer the basic questions I have posted here which any genuine atheist would be able to answer and which shows you talk with forked tongue.

 

[mustaphadrink]

And I submit that the textbooks are wrong!

If that is the case, why do so called educated people teach the big bang as a religion of nothing that is right.

When I was doing my teaching training prac I was observing one science class and a student asked the teacher "where did the earth come from." She then went on to explain the big bang and I stood their aghast that anyone could believe such complete and utter rubbish.

 

[mustaphadrink]

I don't believe in magic, I believe an intelligent creator formed the Universe and all living things.

We can create our own worlds right on computers, we can create different creatures, planets etc.. With modern printers we can 3 dimensionally print objects right off our desktop and have a working 3D model in minutes. This would have looked like magic a thousand years ago, obviously it's not. We use 2 bit binary code to program with, we've found 4 bit code right inside the living cell. Modern security helps one person be many places at once, similar to omnipresence. We discovered energy can be converted into matter and vice versa. None of these ideas are considered magic yet when God displays more advanced versions of them that's what it is called.

Our intelligence should bring us closer to God not further away...

Robbo, you have probably noticed as I have that when atheists make pronouncements that they have no proof whatsoever for they descent into ad hominen attacks to defend their nonsense. One of their favourites is the "Imaginary friend in the sky" or the contention about "Magic" at the centre of Christianity.

One descends into such rhetorical ad hominen attacks because they have no proof whatsoever for their churlish responses which are nothing more than the opinions of deluded individuals who prefer to live in denial.

Anyone with a brain in their heads cannot escape the fact of God and all that he does and means to us. I am an avid reader of current affairs and it does not take much to work out that the more we push God out of society, the more it becomes anarchic and self serving and as a result we are getting more barbaric by the day as evidenced by the amount violence use to solve problems or to assuage egos.

I read one atheist who said that the sooner we get rid of religion the sooner we can usher in utopia. Tell that to the 316 million that lost their lives under Stalin's utopian atheism.

 

[Cycel]

Just an observation, but from a clearly logical point of view, it is far more likely that an infinite God exists who created all things (and thus has the power to give an animal the ability to talk for a brief time) than it is to believe the Big Bang created all things out of literally nothing (which is what science espouses).

This conclusion is logical in your mind but not in mine or Void's. What questions does God as the architect answer? How did God create life? Biochemistry is working toward an answer. Why are there so many points of similarity in DNA between a mouse and a human? First, you must rely on science to even learn that DNA exists, now you must find an answer that doesn't contradict Genesis.

Jda, you may think crediting God with creating the universe answers the question, but does it, really? What can you tell me now about the creation of the universe now that you've pointed to God as the author? If I believed the Flying Spaghetti Monster was the creator, would I know any less than you about the universe's creation? Could either one of us account for the observed red shift of distant galaxies? Does Genesis account for it? Does scripture explain why Venus is rotating backward? The assumption that God gives you better insight is an illusion. If we want answers we must turn to science.

A. An explosion of nothingness created all things.

or

B. An infinite God created all things.

How did God create the universe? What method did he use?

I'm sorry but point A sounds a lot more like magic than point B.

And God said, "Let there be light..." That doesn't sound like magic to you?

"God made two great lights -- the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night." (Genesis 1:16)

Well, that's not terribly informative, is it. Using this account of the Moon's creation how do you explain the differences in the near and far side? Science tries to account for both differences and similarities. Let me ask you if you think Genesis 1:16 was too in depth for a Bronze Age man to write? Did this sentence have to be inspired by God?

It is not just that I think that everything in Genesis 1 could have been written by a Bronze author, without inspiration, it is more that I think this chapter could only have been written by such a person.

 

[Cycel]

If that is the case, why do so called educated people teach the big bang as a religion of nothing that is right.

When I was doing my teaching training prac I was observing one science class and a student asked the teacher "where did the earth come from." She then went on to explain the big bang and I stood their aghast that anyone could believe such complete and utter rubbish.

If a student asked me where the Earth came from I would not have said anything about the Big Bang. I would have talked about the Sun and planets forming from gas and dust clouds in space. Now this hypothesis rests on very solid evidence.

 

[phil112]

I am a bit surprised that I don't have more sympathizers to my point of view about the whole thing. The more science delves into existence, the more intricate all things becomes to us. I brought up the theory of quantum supergravity and got not one response. Apparently no one bothered to read it.
The intensity of the mathematics involved alone speaks of intelligent design. Everything that exists has a methodical and logical foundation. There is absolutely nothing haphazard, arbitrary, or unsystematic about the way everything works.
There is no such thing as "magic". Everything has a cause and effect.
Science and God are not mutually exclusive, and too many seem to think that. I have said it before, and I'll say it again: At the end of true science stands God. If/when we find the beginning of existence, we will find God.

 

[Cycel]

I don't believe in magic, I believe an intelligent creator formed the Universe and all living things.

... We discovered energy can be converted into matter and vice versa. None of these ideas are considered magic yet when God displays more advanced versions of them that's what it is called.

'And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light.'

or

“God made two great lights -- the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night.”

Which is more advanced, the first sentence or the second? Are either of these concepts more advanced than the wonders of our knowledge you described above? I submit that nothing in Genesis 1 demonstrates advanced understanding. Any of it could have been, and was, written by a Bronze Age author. “Let there be...” are the words of an author who has no understanding of the origin of anything. These words are place holders only.

Our intelligence should bring us closer to God not further away...

Absolutely, Homewardbound posted numerous names yesterday, or the day before, of early scientists who believed in God and who pursued science as the means to understand creation. Many of them were the first to arrive at the discovery that Genesis did not fit the observations so they turned to hypotheses that did explain the physical evidence. Their intelligence was sound. Adapting our science to match a 3000 year old cosmology is not the answer.

 

[nl]

"God made two great lights -- the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night." (Genesis 1:16)

Well, that's not terribly informative, is it.

Cycel, sorry, but the subject of Genesis 1:16 is God and not the two great lights of sun and moon. This verse tells us more about the goodness of God than about the dark side of the moon and that's good and not a problem.

Earth would be very different without the sun for sure. If inhabited planets were accidental, then I'm sure there would have been many that never progressed because the nearby star was too hot, too large, too cold, too small, etc.

The moon supports moonlight and tides and probably more than we know.

Thankfulness is the will of God. We pay no tax for the sun. It is good to give thanks and praise to the Creator and Sustainer of life.

"...He [God] makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust." (Matthew 5:45).