ISRAEL: GOD'S CHOSEN PEOPLE - YES OR NO?

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plainguy

Banned
#21
Nov 23, 2016
510
37
0
#21
Joshua 21:45

Not one word of all the good promises that the LORD had made to the house of Israel had failed; all came to pass.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#22
Jul 18, 2017
24,471
12,942
113
#22
plainguy said:
Joshua 21:45

Not one word of all the good promises that the LORD had made to the house of Israel had failed; all came to pass.
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And yet:

1. The Northern Kingdom went into Assyrian captivity

2. The kingdom of Judah went into Babylonian captivity

3. The temple, Jerusalem, and Judea were destroyed by the Romans in 70 AD

4. The Jews were scattered to the four corners of the earth

5. Jerusalem has been trodden down by the Gentiles ever since

6. The secular nation state of Israel occupies probably 1/10th of the Land of Promise at this point

So stopping at Joshua instead of going all the way to Malachi is how people go into error. Even delving in Judges would suffice.
 
V

valiant

Senior Member
#23
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
63
#23
FeedtheMachine said:
I heard a Pastor preach that Israel is NOT God's chosen holy nation and based the sermon on Exodus 19:5-6 which says: "Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel."

He stated that because the children of Israel did not obey the voice of God they could therefore not be "a peculiar treasure" and a "kingdom of priests" and "an holy nation".

He further used 1 Peter 2:9-10 to demonstrate that Israel was never the "chosen ones" but that we are the "chosen ones".

"But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy."

With my limited knowledge (I still have much to learn) from reading the pages of the Bible, the children of Israel have always been set apart by God and are referred to as His people. I understand that through Jesus Christ, we (Christians) now become a royal priesthood. I guess what I am wondering is if the children of Israel are His chosen nation based on the statement made in Exodus 19 (the "if" and "then" statement). The same Pastor had some other "theories" too, but unfortunately I cannot recollect all of it that related to this topic.

I am hoping that someone could please share some wisdom in this regard (without it turning into the usual "let's see if we can turn this into a debate" replies)
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Israel were God's chosen people, but the majority rejected Him and He therefore chose a remnant.

That remnant (the Messiah believing Jews) then invited Gentiles who believed, in, thus forming the true Israel, God's believing church. The true church are the continuation of that Israel. They ARE the chosen people. (1 Peter 2.9; Eph 2.11-22)
 
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plainguy

Banned
#24
Nov 23, 2016
510
37
0
#24
valiant said:
Israel were God's chosen people, but the majority rejected Him and He therefore chose a remnant.

That remnant (the Messiah believing Jews) then invited Gentiles who believed, in, thus forming the true Israel, God's believing church. The true church are the continuation of that Israel. They ARE the chosen people. (1 Peter 2.9; Eph 2.11-22)
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Exactly. The bible chronicles the history of national Israel but pertains essentially to spiritual Israel. Good luck getting many to see this though.
 
P

plainguy

Banned
#25
Nov 23, 2016
510
37
0
#25
Nehemiah6 said:
And yet: .........
So stopping at Joshua instead of going all the way to Malachi is how people go into error. Even delving in Judges would suffice.
Click to expand...
Interesting. How does Malachi's prophesy of Christ's coming (c/w with John the Baptist making straight the Lord's path) nullify or make incomplete Joshua 21:45 ... Not one of the good promises which the Lord had spoken to the house of Israel failed; all had come to pass." Trying to make God's Word say something that it doesn't is what leads people into error. Re-read Malachi 3 without your dispensational slant.
 
DJ2

DJ2

Senior Member
#26
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
57
48
#26
FeedtheMachine said:
I heard a Pastor preach that Israel is NOT God's chosen holy nation and based the sermon on Exodus 19:5-6 which says: "Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel."

He stated that because the children of Israel did not obey the voice of God they could therefore not be "a peculiar treasure" and a "kingdom of priests" and "an holy nation".

He further used 1 Peter 2:9-10 to demonstrate that Israel was never the "chosen ones" but that we are the "chosen ones".

"But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy."

With my limited knowledge (I still have much to learn) from reading the pages of the Bible, the children of Israel have always been set apart by God and are referred to as His people. I understand that through Jesus Christ, we (Christians) now become a royal priesthood. I guess what I am wondering is if the children of Israel are His chosen nation based on the statement made in Exodus 19 (the "if" and "then" statement). The same Pastor had some other "theories" too, but unfortunately I cannot recollect all of it that related to this topic.

I am hoping that someone could please share some wisdom in this regard (without it turning into the usual "let's see if we can turn this into a debate" replies)
Click to expand...
Yes, the Bible clearly states that the Jewish nation was His chosen people. Alas, there is no group of people today that can legitimately claim to be these people.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#27
#27
FeedtheMachine said:
I heard a Pastor preach that Israel is NOT God's chosen holy nation and based the sermon on Exodus 19:5-6 which says: "Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel."

He stated that because the children of Israel did not obey the voice of God they could therefore not be "a peculiar treasure" and a "kingdom of priests" and "an holy nation".

He further used 1 Peter 2:9-10 to demonstrate that Israel was never the "chosen ones" but that we are the "chosen ones".

"But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy."

With my limited knowledge (I still have much to learn) from reading the pages of the Bible, the children of Israel have always been set apart by God and are referred to as His people. I understand that through Jesus Christ, we (Christians) now become a royal priesthood. I guess what I am wondering is if the children of Israel are His chosen nation based on the statement made in Exodus 19 (the "if" and "then" statement). The same Pastor had some other "theories" too, but unfortunately I cannot recollect all of it that related to this topic.

I am hoping that someone could please share some wisdom in this regard (without it turning into the usual "let's see if we can turn this into a debate" replies)
Click to expand...

They are a chosen nation, the des not mean they have all been saved,
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#28
#28
FeedtheMachine said:
Thanks for the input friends. I guess the question: "Is Israel chosen to what? To bring forth Christ?" made me consider the question in a different light.
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they were chosen for much more than that, you should answer all the questions
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#29
#29
Rom 11, Israel is blind in part until the fullness of the gentiles is complete, at that time all Israel (national) will be saved,

remember, Paul was speaking to the Roman (gentile) church, he told them not to be proud, and that all Israel in a future date will be saved, Israel as apposed to gentio (saved or not)
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#30
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#30
FeedtheMachine said:
I heard a Pastor preach that Israel is NOT God's chosen holy nation and based the sermon on Exodus 19:5-6 which says: "Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel."

He stated that because the children of Israel did not obey the voice of God they could therefore not be "a peculiar treasure" and a "kingdom of priests" and "an holy nation".

He further used 1 Peter 2:9-10 to demonstrate that Israel was never the "chosen ones" but that we are the "chosen ones".

"But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy."

With my limited knowledge (I still have much to learn) from reading the pages of the Bible, the children of Israel have always been set apart by God and are referred to as His people. I understand that through Jesus Christ, we (Christians) now become a royal priesthood. I guess what I am wondering is if the children of Israel are His chosen nation based on the statement made in Exodus 19 (the "if" and "then" statement). The same Pastor had some other "theories" too, but unfortunately I cannot recollect all of it that related to this topic.

I am hoping that someone could please share some wisdom in this regard (without it turning into the usual "let's see if we can turn this into a debate" replies)
Click to expand...
They WERTE chosen, and had a pretty good deal with God. But, they chose not to uphold their end, and the deal was cancelled.

Thus, you and I are now the church that they COULD have been.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#31
#31
Willie-T said:
They WERTE chosen, and had a pretty good deal with God. But, they chose not to uphold their end, and the deal was cancelled.

Thus, you and I are now the church that they COULD have been.
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it was? Says who? They can still be part of the church you and I belong to.

Sometimes I wish people would think.
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#32
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#32
eternally-gratefull said:
it was? Says who? They can still be part of the church you and I belong to.

Sometimes I wish people would think.
Click to expand...
No, as professing Jews who are actually against our Christ, and deny that He is the Messiah, they CANNOT possibly, in any way, claim to be followers of Jesus.
 
Locutus

Locutus

Senior Member
#33
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
113
#33
The chosen nation status ended with the waxing old of the old covenant.

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
 
O

oldethennew

Banned
#34
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,972
113
#34
God's choice will never be changed, for He never changes, but He does
have 'mercy', and this also will never be changed...!
 
Bladerunner

Bladerunner

Senior Member
#35
Aug 22, 2016
3,076
59
48
#35
FeedtheMachine said:
Hi Miknik

Sorry, this wasn't a sermon preached by my Pastor. It was part of a DVD that a friend had sent me some time ago and it had just confused me a little.

He had also used Romans 2:29 in his sermon: "But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." It just felt to me that throughout his sermon he was trying to convey that when the Bible is talking about "Jews" and "God's chosen nation" it is not talking about the children of Israel, but about the followers of Christ.
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And well it should have....for God will not turn again to Israel until the fullness of His Church. Once they are gone, HE will turn HIS attention back toward the children of Israel.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#36
#36
Willie-T said:
No, as professing Jews who are actually against our Christ, and deny that He is the Messiah, they CANNOT possibly, in any way, claim to be followers of Jesus.
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Who said these people could? You said the Jews could NT be a part of th chuch you and I belong to, th same chuch started by Jews, and spread throughout the world by many Jewish converts with their gentile bretheryn.

I have Jews in my church who praise God all the time they received ever Christ, they are just as much a part of the chuch as I am, as is any Jew who comes t Christ,
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#37
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#37
oldethennew said:
God's choice will never be changed, for He never changes, but He does
have 'mercy', and this also will never be changed...!
Click to expand...
What's that mean in plain ol' 'Merican English? (It comes off like quoting some Biblical-sounding stuff to avoid being too clear about what you are saying. ☺
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#38
#38
Locutus said:
The chosen nation status ended with the waxing old of the old covenant.

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
Click to expand...
the old covenant he spoke f was the mosaic covenant, no one was ever save by the mosaic covenant. Or ever will be, it was replaced with the new,

the Jewish nation however, is part of the abrahamic covenant, that covenant still stands.
 
W

willybob

Guest
#39
#39
those that are circumcised of the heart and not the flesh, whose praise is of God and not men are the spiritual Jews, of such are the Israel of God , Romans 2-28,29, Galatians 6: 12-16.............be blessed
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#40
#40
willybob said:
those that are circumcised of the heart and not the flesh, whose praise is of God and not men are the spiritual Jews, of such are the Israel of God , Romans 2-28,29, Galatians 6: 12-16.............be blessed
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that's the church,

physical Israel still has a part in prophesy though,
 
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