Israel still god's people?

Linda70 · Aug 5, 2014

Maybe you should have shared your beliefs with Hitler?

A JEW is a physical descendant of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob...saved or unsaved. It's pretty simple.

Were you aware that the majority of JEWS (physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob) living in Israel today are secular (non-practicing) or atheists? Only a small percentage are religious who practice Judaism. Those are the Orthodox, Ultra-Orthodox and Chassidim. Religion does NOT make one Jewish....it's ETHNICITY...and you can't change that. The apostle Paul was an ETHNIC Jew of the tribe of Benjamin (who was the youngest son of Jacob). He was not a Jew because he practiced Judaism...he was a Jew because of his ETHNICITY (physical descendant of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob).

BTW, I am a physical descendant of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob...that makes me an ETHNIC Jew. I am also a born again Christian, which makes me a member of the body of Christ/the Church.

VCO · Aug 5, 2014

fredjames said:

Psalm 105:8-11 (NKJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] He remembers His covenant forever, The word which He commanded, for a thousand generations,
[SUP]9 [/SUP] The covenant which He made with Abraham, And His oath to Isaac,
[SUP]10 [/SUP] And confirmed it to Jacob for a statute, To Israel as an everlasting covenant,
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Saying, "To you I will give the land of Canaan As the allotment of your inheritance,"

And it is the 144,000 sealed in their mortal bodies, of which 12,000 are from each tribe of Israel, who will inherit the land and repopulate earth after all the unbelievers are killed. THUS the covenant truly is everlasting!

Revelation 19:20-21 (NKJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. {The Second Coming of Christ.} And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

Revelation 14:19-20 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] So the angel thrust his sickle into the earth and gathered the vine of the earth, and threw it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] And the winepress was trampled outside the city, and blood came out of the winepress, up to the horses' bridles, for one thousand six hundred furlongs. {Approximately 200 miles.}

Ukorin · Aug 5, 2014

Nick01 said:

The Jews are still God's people, in the historical sense. As Paul says, the benefits of being a Jew are many. But the eternal reality has always been - the true children of Abraham have not been the physical descendants, but the children of the promise.

As for how could God could accept people with blood on their hands, I could equally ask how God could accept ANYONE. NO ONE is deserving of God's favour, and indeed everyone is worthy of being separated from the presence of God forever. But he is gracious and kind, and is patient, desiring that none would be lost. The solution is, and always has been, only resting on God's good and gracious provision in Christ. This is as true for the Jew as it is for the Palestinian as it is for the Australian as it is for the American.

I did not say that salvation is not available to the Jews. THAT would be antisemitic.

I agree with everything you said, except perhaps part of the 1st sentence.

Ukorin · Aug 5, 2014

Linda70 said:

With comments like this, there is no room for debate.

Obviously everyone who is not a full-blown Zionist is antisemitic and is seeking a new holocaust.

There is no point in sharing any more on this topic. You people would give guns to the Antichrist, as long as he's Jewish.
(Hopefully we haven't already, as I would be as guilty as any other, if not more, due to my giving to secular/political Israeli groups. And counting what my parents give....)
*Forgive us Lord, for speeding your Coming by supporting your enemy, rather than fulfilling your Commission. *

Linda70 · Aug 5, 2014

Ukorin said:

No debate necessary. When professing Christians deny that the Apostle Paul was not a Jew (when he states this in Scripture), the door is wide open for all types of anti-Jewish and anti-Israel slander.

Nobody has said that unless one is a full blown Zionist, that person is anti-semitic and seeking a new holocaust. The anti-Israel, anti-semitic sentiment is obvious in a lot of the posts in this thread.

Would it be better to support Islamic terrorist groups like Hamas? If you think by giving to secular/political Israeli groups is supporting the Antichrist, you are dead wrong. Israel is not Antichrist....and professing Christians should not be focused on Antichrist, but on the blessed hope of the Church. (Titus 2:13) I don't plan on being here when Antichrist is revealed.

"Forgive us Lord, for speeding your Coming by supporting your enemy...."?????? What kind of prayer is that? Who is the enemy anyway? It certainly isn't Israel. Were you aware that the Great Commission includes the Jewish people? When the Lord opens the door to sharing Christ with the Jewish people, do you use that opportunity to share Christ.

BTW, Christians are to looking for His coming (Titus 2:13), and to love His appearing (2 Timothy 4:8). The Rapture of the Church is imminent....it can happen at any time. Supporting or not supporting your enemy...or anything else you might think will hasten His return for His Church has absolutely no bearing on imminency. Nobody can "make" Jesus come back....He will come back "in His time".

Revelation 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

The word "quickly" refers to His imminent return.

Ukorin · Aug 5, 2014

Linda70 said:

Unbelievers are an enemy of the Cross, regardless of race.
In supporting the goals of unbelievers, we have supported the Enemy.

Any money going to arm another nation is money not used for advancing the Kingdom.

Why has my local church been pushing this type of giving?! Don't you see what we have done?
How much clearer can it be? Yet we were blind to it. Our grandparents and parents were blind to it.
They set everything up for the apostate church and Antichrist, and called it the work of God, and we followed in building it.
What blinded us? Why would we think that building a physical kingdom was what God wanted the Church to do?

I should not be on this forum right now. I need to be in prayer. This guilt is weighing heavy upon me. I need to take it to the Lord in prayer, and leave it at the Cross.
I realize you do not share this conviction, but I doubt the Spirit will keep it from you for long.

john832 · Aug 5, 2014

Dalisa said:

And if king Saul had obeyed God we wouldn't be having this conversation...

1Sa 15:1 Samuel also said to Saul, "The LORD sent me to anoint you king over His people, over Israel. Now therefore, heed the voice of the words of the LORD.
1Sa 15:2 Thus says the LORD of hosts: 'I will punish Amalek for what he did to Israel, how he ambushed him on the way when he came up from Egypt.
1Sa 15:3 Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them. But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.' "

Philip321 · Aug 5, 2014

Israel and the Jews (who killed the Almighty Jesus) are horrible and committing warcrimes, they also suppress the Palestinians. And people wonder why Hamas fires rockets to Israel? I think it is quite logical when people suppress you and your people! People are brainwashed by the western media. It is sick. Already over 1800 'INNOCENT' people died! Over 8000 injured. That is not normal! Israel attacked a UN school and people (women and children died, innocent children). These people will walk around their whole lives with a trauma. Horrible! That's why I pray every day for the Palestinians and I hope God will punish the Jews and the Israeli government.

fozi · Aug 5, 2014

That is a part of jewish propaganda that hamas use children as their shield and they hide weapons in schools.............israeal cannot hide his crimes and brutalities in this way.............for how long americans will b brain washed by jewish contolled media and the US government who support israel and shares the crimes of israel...........The truth is that israel is killing innocent children and people of phalestine............and doing propaganda against hamas...................infact he is preparing to support the antichrist..................and we muslims are waiting for the arrival of prophet christ........He(pbuh)will come and support the muslims.......He will kill the antichrist and isreal will b no longer on face of earth...........................Prophet christ(pbuh) will ask the christians 'why did they call him son ofGod or God.....................He(pbuh)will keep him at a distance from the christians......Todays jews are killing muslims and america is supporting him.The day is not far when israel irrespective of all his propaganda and the support of antichrist will pay back,................

didymos · Aug 5, 2014

Dalisa said:

Depends what you mean by 'Israel.'
I find it hard to believe this highly secularized, imperialistic nation state of Israel is 'God's people.'

Timeline · Aug 5, 2014

didymos said:

I wonder if having jets and an extensive military constitutes "multiplying horses". I wonder if they ask the men all of these questions and dismiss them if they meet the requirements to leave. I wonder if they even consider any of these Laws when they go into battle. I even wonder how many of them are really Israelites. I mean, they were scatter for approximately 1,950 years, so how pure could their blood be (unless, of course, God kept some of their bloodlines pure)?

Deuteronomy 17:14-17
[SUP]14 [/SUP]“When you enter the land which the Lord your God gives you, and you possess it and live in it, and you say, ‘I will set a king over me like all the nations who are around me,’ [SUP]15 [/SUP]you shall surely set a king over you whom the Lord your God chooses, one from among your countrymen you shall set as king over yourselves; you may not put a foreigner over yourselves who is not your countryman. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Moreover, he shall not multiply horses for himself, nor shall he cause the people to return to Egypt to multiply horses, since the Lord has said to you, ‘You shall never again return that way.’ [SUP]17[/SUP]He shall not multiply wives for himself, or else his heart will turn away; nor shall he greatly increase silver and gold for himself.

Deuteronomy 20
“When you go out to battle against your enemies and see horses and chariots and people more numerous than you, do not be afraid of them; for the Lord your God, who brought you up from the land of Egypt, is with you. [SUP]2 [/SUP]When you are approaching the battle, the priest shall come near and speak to the people. [SUP]3 [/SUP]He shall say to them, ‘Hear, O Israel, you are approaching the battle against your enemies today. Do not be fainthearted. Do not be afraid, or panic, or tremble before them, [SUP]4 [/SUP]for the Lord your God is the one who goes with you, to fight for you against your enemies, to save you.’ [SUP]5 [/SUP]The officers also shall speak to the people, saying, ‘Who is the man that has built a new house and has not dedicated it? Let him depart and return to his house, otherwise he might die in the battle and another man would dedicate it. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Who is the man that has planted a vineyard and has not begun to use its fruit? Let him depart and return to his house, otherwise he might die in the battle and another man would begin to use its fruit. [SUP]7 [/SUP]And who is the man that is engaged to a woman and has not married her? Let him depart and return to his house, otherwise he might die in the battle and another man would marry her.’ [SUP]8 [/SUP]Then the officers shall speak further to the people and say, ‘Who is the man that is afraid and fainthearted? Let him depart and return to his house, so that he might not make his brothers’ hearts melt like his heart.’ [SUP]9 [/SUP]When the officers have finished speaking to the people, they shall appoint commanders of armies at the head of the people.[SUP]10 [/SUP]“When you approach a city to fight against it, you shall offer it terms of peace. [SUP]11 [/SUP]If it agrees to make peace with you and opens to you, then all the people who are found in it shall become your forced labor and shall serve you. [SUP]12 [/SUP]However, if it does not make peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it. [SUP]13 [/SUP]When the Lord your God gives it into your hand, you shall strike all the men in it with the edge of the sword. [SUP]14 [/SUP]Only the women and the children and the animals and all that is in the city, all its spoil, you shall take as booty for yourself; and you shall use the spoil of your enemies which the Lord your God has given you. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Thus you shall do to all the cities that are very far from you, which are not of the cities of these nations nearby. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Only in the cities of these peoples that the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes. [SUP]17 [/SUP]But you shall utterly destroy them, the Hittite and the Amorite, the Canaanite and the Perizzite, the Hivite and the Jebusite, as the Lord your God has commanded you, [SUP]18 [/SUP]so that they may not teach you to do according to all their detestable things which they have done for their gods, so that you would sin against the Lord your God.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]“When you besiege a city a long time, to make war against it in order to capture it, you shall not destroy its trees by swinging an axe against them; for you may eat from them, and you shall not cut them down. For is the tree of the field a man, that it should be besieged by you? [SUP]20 [/SUP]Only the trees which you know are not fruit trees you shall destroy and cut down, that you may construct siegeworks against the city that is making war with you until it falls.

jahsoul · Aug 5, 2014

Linda70 said:

Scripturally, that is totally incorrect and what does Hitler have to do with that fact?

A Jew (Judaite or Judean used in original translations, OT and NT respectively) was either from the Tribe of Judah, the Kingdom/Region of Judah/Judea, or a religious Jew.

Descendents of Abraham were Hebrews and more specifically, the 12 Tribes of Israel came from Jacob.

How was Paul an "ethnic Jew" not being from the Tribe of Benjamin, as coming from his mouth and the words you have typed. (and unlike those who occupy the land they call Israel, Paul knew his ethnicity). If what you are saying is correct about ethnic Jews, why didn't Paul call himself a Jew from the Tribe of Benjamin? I also didn't say that religion is the only thing that makes a person a Jew, but that is the only thing that could have made Paul one. Again, you can't be scripturally honest and say that there is no difference between those called Jew and what we know as the Tribes of Israel. With that being said...

Paul was a Benjamite, not a Judaite
Paul was born in Tarsus (in Turkey), not Judea which only leaves one thing.....
Paul was a Jew by religion.

I used scripture in my previous post to back up what I said. Matter of fact, I will also add this:

How many times is Jew used in the Old Testament? Also, was it ever used to describe anyone of the Northern Kingdom?

Timeline · Aug 5, 2014

jahsoul said:

1 Kings 12
[SUP]20 [/SUP]It came about when all Israel heard that Jeroboam had returned, that they sent and called him to the assembly and made him king over all Israel. None but the tribe of Judah followed the house of David.[SUP]21 [/SUP]Now when Rehoboam had come to Jerusalem, he assembled all the house of Judah and the tribe of Benjamin, 180,000 chosen men who were warriors, to fight against the house of Israel to restore the kingdom to Rehoboam the son of Solomon. [SUP]22 [/SUP]But the word of God came to Shemaiah the man of God, saying, [SUP]23 [/SUP]“Speak to Rehoboam the son of Solomon, king of Judah, and to all the house of Judah and Benjamin and to the rest of the people, saying, [SUP]24 [/SUP]‘Thus says the Lord, “You must not go up and fight against your relatives the sons of Israel; return every man to his house, for this thing has come from Me.”’” So they listened to the word of the Lord, and returned and went their way according to the word of the Lord.

Not that I agree with Linda, but I thought this should be mentioned. Judah and Benjamin became Jews. The other ten tribes became Samaritans. But you can also note:

John 8
[SUP]48 [/SUP]The Jews answered and said to Him, “Do we not say rightly that You are a Samaritan and have a demon?” [SUP]49 [/SUP]Jesus answered, “I do not have a demon; but I honor My Father, and you dishonor Me.

Jesus does not mention anything about not being a Samaritan - Don't read too much or too little into that!

crossnote · Aug 5, 2014

Ukorin said:

Ha Ha , truly funny.. an eschatologically biased Kindle, I always suspected Amazon of such chicanery

jahsoul · Aug 5, 2014

Timeline said:

1 Kings 12
[SUP]20 [/SUP]It came about when all Israel heard that Jeroboam had returned, that they sent and called him to the assembly and made him king over all Israel. None but the tribe of Judah followed the house of David.[SUP]21 [/SUP]Now when Rehoboam had come to Jerusalem, he assembled all the house of Judah and the tribe of Benjamin, 180,000 chosen men who were warriors, to fight against the house of Israel to restore the kingdom to Rehoboam the son of Solomon. [SUP]22 [/SUP]But the word of God came to Shemaiah the man of God, saying, [SUP]23 [/SUP]“Speak to Rehoboam the son of Solomon, king of Judah, and to all the house of Judah and Benjamin and to the rest of the people, saying, [SUP]24 [/SUP]‘Thus says the Lord, “You must not go up and fight against your relatives the sons of Israel; return every man to his house, for this thing has come from Me.”’” So they listened to the word of the Lord, and returned and went their way according to the word of the Lord.

Not that I agree with Linda, but I thought this should be mentioned. Judah and Benjamin became Jews. The other ten tribes became Samaritans. But you can also note:

John 8
[SUP]48 [/SUP]The Jews answered and said to Him, “Do we not say rightly that You are a Samaritan and have a demon?” [SUP]49 [/SUP]Jesus answered, “I do not have a demon; but I honor My Father, and you dishonor Me.

Jesus does not mention anything about not being a Samaritan - Don't read too much or too little into that!

The Bible states that Judah, Benjamin, and the priest of Levi formed Judah, the Southern Kingdom. They didn't become "Jews" but were called Judaites because of the land they inhabited. The other tribes did not because Samaritans. They were still called Israelites. The whole Samaritan issue is sketchy because of different claims (they came from Pagans, the way they practiced religion, etc.) but I'm just starting my study on them.

jahsoul · Aug 5, 2014

crossnote said:

LOL...Amazon and their sneaky ways!! lol

crossnote · Aug 5, 2014

jahsoul said:

He was of the lineage of Abraham-Isaac and Jacob...I hope that makes you happy.

Timeline · Aug 5, 2014

jahsoul said:

The Bible states that Judah, Benjamin, and the priest of Levi formed Judah, the Southern Kingdom. They didn't become "Jews" but were called Judaites because of the land they inhabited. The other tribes did not because Samaritans. They were still called Israelites. The whole Samaritan issue is sketchy because of different claims (they came from Pagans, the way they practiced religion, etc.) but I'm just starting my study on them.

Where did the Israelites live when Jesus started his ministry?

jahsoul · Aug 5, 2014

crossnote said:

That would make him a Hebrew/Israelite...

jahsoul · Aug 5, 2014

Timeline said:

From the northern kingdom, nobody really knows. When Israel was destroyed, it wasn't like Judah, where a good portion went into captivity. They say a lot of them went to the mountains, but I remember reading in the NT that someone was from the tribe of Asher but I don't really remember the context of it.

Israel still god's people?

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