It Was YOU, Obama!

Galahad · Aug 20, 2015

Paul was falsely accused. Paul isn't saying the Law forbids a person from presenting truth regarding a ruler. He's saying: "I'm not guilty of speaking evil of the ruler." That's all.

The truth is not evil.

Obama supports same sex marriage. The bible does not.
He supports abortion. The bible does not.
He supports a whole bunch of stuff that the bible forbids.

In saying those things, I am not evil speaking against him.

dcontroversal · Aug 20, 2015

Galahad said:

Woohooo...the self righteous hypocrite has arrived to rebuke everyone with his self/working for salvation pseudo gospel while misapplying scripture directed at the priests unto the leaders of a worldly Gentile kingdom.....

Galahad · Aug 20, 2015

KennethC said:

Jesus did not violate any part of the Law of Moses. Not one.

But Jesus did call the religious rulers HYPOCRITES.

Was Jesus guilty of speaking evil against the rulers? No.

That's because it was not evil speaking against them. It is not evil to speak the truth.

jb · Aug 20, 2015

Magenta said:

Indeed so, this is what Christians are charged to do! 1Sam 12v23, Rom 13v1-7, 1Tim 2v1-8...

Dan 4v17 states: "'This decision is by the decree of the watchers, And the sentence by the word of the holy ones, In order that the living may know That the Most High rules in the kingdom of men, Gives it to whomever He will, And sets over it the lowest of men.'

Yahweh Shalom

KennethC · Aug 20, 2015

Galahad said:

I do not like what Obama has done or supports, but some do not stop at just saying things that he has done.
They throw in little personal attacks and unedifying wordage on top of it.

We can state what he supports and how we disagree with it, but it does not have to be done in such hateful or unedifying personal attacks on the man. This is where the line gets drawn by the bible on if a person is properly using reproving and rebuking of a person, or if they are speaking properly on another.

We may not like what the man has done but that does not mean or give us the right to go beyond how the bible says we are to treat others even those who will persecute us. We are to do good and pray for them !!!

crossnote · Aug 20, 2015

KennethC said:

obama, the ruler of Christians? News to me.

dcontroversal · Aug 20, 2015

crossnote said:

He does that quite a bit...misapplies scripture.....it has nothing at all to do with a king or president, but is applicable unto the HIGH PRIEST...of course I know you know this....but the blind one just throws out verses left and right with a shotgun effect....

KennethC · Aug 20, 2015

Galahad said:

Once again Jesus did that to their face (properly reproving and rebuking), He did not do it behind their back.

For He did not go around bad mouthing others when they were not around, He told them straight to their faces.

As for Acts 23:5 what Apostle Paul was saying is that when he was accused of speaking badly on the high priest Ananias, he said he didn't know that Ananias was the high priest for the law says that we are not to speak evil of a ruler of the people.

Apostle Paul was quoting Exodus 22:28 !!!

Galahad · Aug 20, 2015

KennethC said:

I appreciate that. But Ken, what do you tell your neighbor about Obama or another politician you know is promoting sin? Can we not present the truth to others about the errors of the ways of our leaders?

Paul the apostle to Timothy: "For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia." (2Tim.2.10)

KennethC · Aug 20, 2015

crossnote said:

That verse has nothing to do with being a ruler of Christians alone !!!

dcontroversal said:

What ever Dcon as your negativity and unedifying behavior is unnecessary as always.

The high priest Ananias was a Pharisee, not a leader over Christian believers only.
He was a leader over the Jewish people who gave them the law of Moses, and the context was of following the Mosaic laws in that passage.

Apostle Paul was quoting Exodus 22:28 when he said you are not to speak evil of a ruler of the people !!!

KennethC · Aug 20, 2015

Galahad said:

Like I said before yes we can speak on what they are doing and saying wrong, but it can be done without personal attacks and unedifying behavior as some have done. That is where the line gets drawn !!!

Can I say that I do not agree with Obama supporting same sex marriage ? YES

Can I say that I do not agree with that ignorant jack... for supporting same sex marriage ? NO

You see it all depends on how one goes about speaking on the issue and not supporting the issues this man has done, and using unedifying language or belittling the man in the process is not called for, nor does the bible say it is proper to do that.

Galahad · Aug 20, 2015

KennethC said:

I agree. But you did not present your OP on this issue with such information. You just threw a verse out there and sought that it apply to the OP of this thread. I don't recall any hate in the OP.

And let us not confuse anger against sin with hate toward another.

My anger against Obama is probably equal to his arrogant disregard for decency and truth.

Hate toward him is not the issue. I don't like him one bit. Not one. But I pray for him.

Just a joke Ken, and you have to admit this is funny. Okay. Really: If Obama, Reid, Pollowsee (Forgot how to spell her name)Reid, Clinton were drowning and you could only save one, who would you save?

My answer: None. I would save the nation!

Oh, I just made that joke up.

C'mon. That's funny. You know it is Ken.

crossnote · Aug 20, 2015

KennethC said:

Nor does it have anything to do with Obama as ruler over Christians period. We have One Ruler.

KennethC · Aug 20, 2015

Galahad said:

My answer to that question would be I would try to save them and the nation, as I would not chose one over the other.

Do you think the Lord Jesus cares about saving one sinner over another, or does He want all men to come to repentance ???

KennethC · Aug 20, 2015

crossnote said:

Your right we have One Spiritual Ruler, but we do have a number of earthly rulers that the bible says we are to obey them as if what they say comes from God directly (unless they contradict His ways).

Like I said Apostle Paul in Acts 23:5 was quoting Exodus 22:28, and in that from Exodus was not speaking of limiting it to just a priest. It was speaking of any ruler of the people !!!

Angela53510 · Aug 20, 2015

I just did Snopes for the one about Muslims getting out of Obamacare. That one is false!

There is a section allowing exemption for religious reasons, but it is for anyone who objects and doesn't use the system. Like the Amish, maybe?

snopes.com: Dhimmitude — Health Insurance Exemptions

"RELIGIOUS CONSCIENCE EXEMPTION — Such term shall not include any individual for any month if such individual has in effect an exemption under section 1311(d)(4)(H) of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act which certifies that such individual is a member of a recognized religious sect or division thereof described in section 1402(g)(1) and an adherent of established tenets or teachings of such sect or division as described in such section.
For members of religious groups to qualify for this exemption, they would have to be adherents of a religion or sect "described in section 1402(g)(1)" of the Internal Revenue Code, which governs exemptions from the payment of Social Security and Medicare taxes on self-employment income. In general, persons seeking a health insurance exemption must belong to a religion (or sect thereof) which has been in existence since 1951 and has an established history of spurning participation in insurance programs:(g) Members of certain religious faiths

(1) Exemption

Any individual may file an application (in such form and manner, and with such official, as may be prescribed by regulations under this chapter) for an exemption from the tax imposed by this chapter if he is a member of a recognized religious sect or division thereof and is an adherent of established tenets or teachings of such sect or division by reason of which he is conscientiously opposed to acceptance of the benefits of any private or public insurance which makes payments in the event of death, disability, old-age, or retirement or makes payments toward the cost of, or provides services for, medical care (including the benefits of any insurance system established by the Social Security Act). Such exemption may be granted only if the application contains or is accompanied by -

(A) such evidence of such individual's membership in, and adherence to the tenets or teachings of, the sect or division thereof as the Secretary may require for purposes of determining such individual's compliance with the preceding sentence, and

(B) his waiver of all benefits and other payments under titles II and XVIII of the Social Security Act on the basis of his wages and self-employment income as well as all such benefits and other payments to him on the basis of the wages and self-employment income of any other person, and only if the Commissioner of Social Security finds that -

(C) such sect or division thereof has the established tenets or teachings referred to in the preceding sentence,

(D) it is the practice, and has been for a period of time which he deems to be substantial, for members of such sect or division thereof to make provision for their dependent members which in his judgment is reasonable in view of their general level of living, and

(E) such sect or division thereof has been in existence at all times since December 31, 1950.

An exemption may not be granted to any individual if any benefit or other payment referred to in subparagraph (B) became payable (or, but for section 203 or 222(b) of the Social Security Act, would have become payable) at or before the time of the filing of such waiver.

I wonder how many of those other things in the OP are false? Bearing false witness, especially slandering leaders is a sin, last time I checked!

Viligant_Warrior · Aug 20, 2015

KennethC said:

And what do you do with ...

Acts 5, NASB
27 When they had brought them, they stood them before the Council. The high priest questioned them,
28 saying, "We gave you strict orders not to continue teaching in this name, and yet, you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and intend to bring this man's blood upon us."
29 But Peter and the apostles answered, "We must obey God rather than men.

Don't say, "That's not the same thing," because it is exactly the same thing. The Sanhedrin was the spiritual leadership of Israel, but they were also the civil government, both before and after they were conquered by Babylon, Assyria, Greece, and Rome. In each instance, the Council was allowed to remain in place, to keep the natives quiet, and take the blame when they weren't.

Here they were not acting as the spiritual leadership, but as the civil authority, a buffer between those who would throw off the yoke of Rome, and the Roman governor. Any claim of kingship that had not Caesar as its object was a seditious claim, in Rome's eyes, and regarded as rebellion that would be met with military force

You claim we "must obey" without thought as to the righteousness of the ruler. Peter said differently. So, what say you, Ken?

KennethC · Aug 20, 2015

Viligant_Warrior said:

Obviously you did not read what I wrote before you replied here, because I said we are to obey the laws given as if they come from God Himself "unless" they contradict His ways.

Still that does not give us the right to belittle and demean another individual who is making laws contradictory to God's way.

We can state how we do not agree with it and stand up for God's way, but in that process unedifying and attacking the person is not what we are to do.

dcontroversal · Aug 20, 2015

KennethC said:

Just calling out publically what you do pal....just as you say that you do....you don't like it then don't read and or respond, but as long as you continually yank scriptures out of context and push heretical dogma I will call you on it...

Viligant_Warrior · Aug 20, 2015

KennethC said:

Explain to me how stating the facts as they relate to Obama's record as president amounts to "belittling and demeaning" him?

KennethC said:

Since you said the same thing twice, so will I. How does the mere list of facts amount to "belittling and demeaning" him? Please elucidate.

It Was YOU, Obama!

Galahad

Guest

dcontroversal

Banned

Galahad

Guest

jb

Senior Member

KennethC

Guest

crossnote

Senior Member

dcontroversal

Banned

KennethC

Guest

Galahad

Guest

KennethC

Guest

KennethC

Guest

Galahad

Guest

crossnote

Senior Member

KennethC

Guest

KennethC

Guest

Angela53510

Senior Member

Viligant_Warrior

Guest

KennethC

Guest

dcontroversal

Banned

Viligant_Warrior

Guest