It's the blood of the Lamb

[VioletReigns]

Until we are willing to give ourselves to Christ we will always try to justify ourselves before God.

Only the blood of Christ can justify us before God and redeem us to God. We can "work" all we want, we will only end up with blisters. You can be legalistic or Biblical....you can't be both.

Amen, Brother Elf!!! Anything we think we can do to add to the Atonement, the Precious Blood of Jesus Christ is absurd and is even a shame to consider. The price our Savior paid to redeem us, we cannot begin to entertain the idea that we must do more than what our Holy God has done for us. We need to humble ourselves and fall at His Holy feet and thank Him for the awesome, everlasting love and miraculous grace He has offered to us.

No, there is nothing but thankful, humble hearts and submissive minds and abandoned lives at the foot of the Cross can we give to Him who keeps us from falling. Hallelujah!! Thank You, Jesus!! Thank You, Jesus!! \/

 

[SeaBass]

How do you propose you can "save yourself", "purify your soul", "cleanse your hands", "purify your heart", and "purge yourself"? Please give me the Scripture that explains exactly how you intend to do these things outwardly.

Hi,

Acts 2:40 save yourselves
1 Tim 4:16 save thyself
1 Pet 1:22 purified your souls
James 4:8 cleanse your hands, purify your hearts
2 Cor 7:1 cleanse ourselves
2 Tim 2:21 if a man purge himself

I did give the verse beside each one (in red above)

Acts 2:40 "And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation."

The first and most obvious is why would Peter tell them to "save ourselves" if that is not possible? so it must be possible.

Two verses earlier Peter commanded them to repent and be baptized for remission of sins(salvation).

Now they knew what they must do to be saved. So they had two choices:

1) not do what Peter said and remain lost
2) obey what Peter said and be saved

God will not force them to do either one, it is a freewill choice. Those that chose to obey are in that sense putting themselves in a position to have their sins remitted. Since they put themselves in that position to have their sins remitted by obeying it is in that sense they are saving themselves. By doing nothing they would have NOT put themselves in the position to have their sins remitted. God in a sense has given you instructions on how to open the door to salvation. You must choose to follow those instructions to open the door and when you do, then you in that sense are participating in your own salvation>saving yourself. Doing nothing, not following the instruction then you are causing yourself to be lost. God does not force you to be saved nor force you to be lost for you have a choice in you own salvation. And when you choose to obey and be saved then you are in that sense saving yourself. But if you are lost then God did not cause you to be lost for you "lost yourself" by not doing what God said.

(Mind you that you are NOT saving yourself by yourself but saving yourself by obeying what God said to do to be saved.)


The implication of it is this: if God alone is the cause of one being saved where man has no choice in his own salvation at all, then God alone is the cause of one being lost and God therefore is culpable, at fault, to be blamed for the lost.

Bottom line: if 100% credit goes to God for one being saved then 100% of fault and blame goes to God for those lost. But God has no fault or blame nor does God cause men to be lost against their will for that goes against God's very nature.

 

[SoulWeaver]

Bottom line: if 100% credit goes to God for one being saved then 100% of fault and blame goes to God for those lost.

Your logic on this is faulty.
It is like a son getting a speeding ticket and having no money to pay the fine, then his father pleads with the judge and pays the fine for him. While all the credit goes to his father in case he pays, if he doesnt, he is surely not the one to blame for what happened.

 

[elf3]

Your logic on this is faulty.
It is like a son getting a speeding ticket and having no money to pay the fine, then his father pleads with the judge and pays the fine for him. While all the credit goes to his father in case he pays, if he doesnt, he is surely not the one to blame for what happened.

For sure. What seabass does is remove sin from the equation and say "it's God's fault not everyone is saved". So with that being the case we must therefore "work" for our salvation. Only God is God and only God can forgive us and bring us back to Him. God created us so therefore God gets to decide how we are justified before Him.

 

[SeaBass]

Your logic on this is faulty.
It is like a son getting a speeding ticket and having no money to pay the fine, then his father pleads with the judge and pays the fine for him. While all the credit goes to his father in case he pays, if he doesnt, he is surely not the one to blame for what happened.

If man has no choice in his own salvation where God alone chooses who will or will not be saved, then if a man is lost, how can that man be blamed for a choice God made for him?


Your analogy does not fit for in your analogy the father did not make the son to speed.

If the father forces the son to speed or not speed where the son had no choice at all in how fast he goes, then the father is at fault if the son speeds or does not speed...

....likewise....

If God forces the son to be saved or be lost where the son has no choice in it at all, the God is 100% at fault if the son is lost or saved.

 

[elf3]

Seabass has me on ignore so here is the answer. God is the creator. It is in God's right if He chooses people or not. Heck He chose Israel as His chosen people why can't He choose under the NT covenant? We are perfectly fine with Him choosing them what's wrong with Him choosing now?

 

[SoulWeaver]

If man has no choice in his own salvation where God alone chooses who will or will not be saved, then if a man is lost, how can that man be blamed for a choice God made for him?

Your analogy does not fit for in your analogy the father did not make the son to speed.

If the father forces the son to speed or not speed where the son had no choice at all in how fast he goes, then the father is at fault if the son speeds or does not speed.

But who said that father made him speed? Father is involved only in saving. It does not take God to sin. Therefore He owes us nothing... that is exactly the cause of all the praise He is worthy of. If He owed us, why then praise Him?
God's preordination is based on God's foreknowledge, not God's whim, and ability to calculate chains of consequences of that person's existence. I am pretty sure that He put every person in existence in the time and place and circumstances to yield the best accomplishable result with that person/vessel. The Bible also tells us this:
Romans 8:28 ...all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father,...
Of course you are free to have your opinion... this is mine. God Bless

 

[notuptome]

If man has no choice in his own salvation where God alone chooses who will or will not be saved, then if a man is lost, how can that man be blamed for a choice God made for him?


Your analogy does not fit for in your analogy the father did not make the son to speed.

If the father forces the son to speed or not speed where the son had no choice at all in how fast he goes, then the father is at fault if the son speeds or does not speed...

....likewise....

If God forces the son to be saved or be lost where the son has no choice in it at all, the God is 100% at fault if the son is lost or saved.

You are perfectly described in Romans 1. You do not like the way God has ordained men to be saved so you go about to change it into something you find more appealing. Paul asked the Galatians who had bewitched them into believing another gospel which was not the gospel. You have just simply rejected the gospel having never believed. I have yet to see you accept any part of the gospel without modification.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

Seabass has me on ignore so here is the answer. God is the creator. It is in God's right if He chooses people or not. Heck He chose Israel as His chosen people why can't He choose under the NT covenant? We are perfectly fine with Him choosing them what's wrong with Him choosing now?

Truth be known I think he has God on ignore.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[elf3]

Truth be known I think he has God on ignore.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Oh my goodness you had me laughing!

 

[SeaBass]

But who said that father made him speed? Father is involved only in saving. It does not take God to sin. Therefore He owes us nothing... that is exactly the cause of all the praise He is worthy of. If He owed us, why then praise Him?
God's preordination is based on God's foreknowledge, not God's whim, and ability to calculate chains of consequences of that person's existence. I am pretty sure that He put every person in existence in the time and place and circumstances to yield the best accomplishable result with that person/vessel. The Bible also tells us this:
Romans 8:28 ...all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father,...
Of course you are free to have your opinion... this is mine. God Bless

I said the father forces the son to speed or not speed in order for your analogy to fit what I am saying.

I said God forces a man to be saved or not saved so for your analogy to fit mine the father forces the son to speed or not speed. What I said puts God 100% in control of what man does your analogy did not put the father 100% in control of what the son does.


The bible does not teach that God forces a man to be either saved or lost against man's own will. God gave man freewill and allows man to make that choice.

Rom 8:28 and 1 Pet 1:2 are talking about a class of people, a group called Christians. God foreknew and predestined this group and not the individual. You choose to obey the gospel then you become part of this foreknown. predestined group. Choose not to obey the gospel and not become a Christian, then you are left outside this foreknown, predestined group.
But by choosing to obey the gospel and become a Christian then you are in that sense are putting yourself in this saved, foreknow, predestined group....saving yourself.

 

[SeaBass]

You are perfectly described in Romans 1. You do not like the way God has ordained men to be saved so you go about to change it into something you find more appealing. Paul asked the Galatians who had bewitched them into believing another gospel which was not the gospel. You have just simply rejected the gospel having never believed. I have yet to see you accept any part of the gospel without modification.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Rom 1 does not teach God has ordained some men to be lost or saved against their will.

 

[elf3]

You are perfectly described in Romans 1. You do not like the way God has ordained men to be saved so you go about to change it into something you find more appealing. Paul asked the Galatians who had bewitched them into believing another gospel which was not the gospel. You have just simply rejected the gospel having never believed. I have yet to see you accept any part of the gospel without modification.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

But who said that father made him speed? Father is involved only in saving. It does not take God to sin. Therefore He owes us nothing... that is exactly the cause of all the praise He is worthy of. If He owed us, why then praise Him?
God's preordination is based on God's foreknowledge, not God's whim, and ability to calculate chains of consequences of that person's existence. I am pretty sure that He put every person in existence in the time and place and circumstances to yield the best accomplishable result with that person/vessel. The Bible also tells us this:
Romans 8:28 ...all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father,...
Of course you are free to have your opinion... this is mine. God Bless

Both so true! We don't like it so we change it to our wants. God's Word is final!

I must be one of the crazy ones. The reason is this...I will try my best to win everyone to Christ. But in the same sense I am perfectly fine if I am not one of His chosen and end up in hell because it's all for HIS GLORY not mine. Kinda goofy huh? Kinda sick way of thinking isn't it? Huh? Is that faith? Or am I just a whackadoo myself?

 

[SoulWeaver]

It is in God's right if He chooses people or not.

For real.

@SeaBass, I'm loving God more every day and He is rooting out anything in me that He doesnt like and transforming me to be more like Jesus and this is happening because I have FAITH in Him that He will do it, the more faith I have, the more I abide in Him. My attempts to "work" did NOT work... this does NOT produce fruit.
God made it easy for a small child to understand, His yoke is easy, His burden is light. We men make it complicated and so hard. I'll stop there. Have a blessed weekend

 

[BradC]

One cannot "trust" god without doing what God has said.

1 Tim 4:10 "For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach," Why? "because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe."

Jn 14:15,21; Jn 15:10 one cannot love God without doing God's commands so how can it be said one trusts God without doing His commands? One cannot even call Jesus their "Lord" if they do not do what Jesus said to do.

Why do you continually forget that Jesus said the work of God is to believe on the one whom God sent... We are commanded to believe unto life everlasting. Hear what Jesus said in response to doing the work of God...

John 6:28,29

28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

 

[elf3]

For real.

@SeaBass, I'm loving God more every day and He is rooting out anything in me that He doesnt like and transforming me to be more like Jesus and this is happening because I have FAITH in Him that He will do it, the more faith I have, the more I abide in Him. My attempts to "work" did NOT work... this does NOT produce fruit.
God made it easy for a small child to understand, His yoke is easy, His burden is light. We men make it complicated and so hard. I'll stop there. Have a blessed weekend

Oh so true sister! Only by the grace of God and only for His Glory!

 

[thecreationtutor]

Read this quote today

It's the very greatness that makes Him seem to far to be near is the greatness that enables Him to do whatever He pleases, including being near to me.

God Chooses to love me because of my faults, my failures, my deficiencies, my sin(thought He doesn't love my sin)

There is great Joy in knowing God Chooses, though I am not the one who knows who He chooses

I don't see the rub in Calvanistic, or neo-reformed theology - it's actually quite self effacing, makes you humble yourself, stirs your affections for a God who would love this mess, Creationtutor's mess. As I have seen makes you want to preach the Gospel, share your faith, embolden's your witness etc

There are people, like anywhere that use it as a crutch rather plunging into a passionate pursuit of this God. Frozen chosen, maybe or tares that will be sifted later

That He doesn't deal with me according to my sin

If God doesn't choose to love me, then when I fail, it follows, He should fail to love me, which leads me to base my salvation on my work, not the work of Jesus Christ

When God is reduced to the limitation of my will - that shrinks my view of God, and elevates myself, and my sin to the point where I don't think it's possible to have victory over my sin, i am stuck in sin confess, sin confess cycles - that if I don't actually get over would show I don't really know the Lord

 

[SeaBass]

Why do you continually forget that Jesus said the work of God is to believe on the one whom God sent... We are commanded to believe unto life everlasting. Hear what Jesus said in response to doing the work of God...

John 6:28,29

28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Believing is a work as Jesus said in Jn 6:27 but Jesus did not tell those people to believe only. Belief only is dead being VOID of works.