Jesus didn't come to separate the old and new covenants.

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Jan 27, 2013
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Thanks . . . but I do understand this . . . Yes, they were expecting a conquering King and no they did not understand his coming as the suffering servant nor his death and resurrection.
i agree, given it was after 1500 ad, before joe public, seen the inside of the bible, so who was alive to prove, there testimonies.
thank god,though jesus christ, the grace of god, and holy spirit is still active, in 2015.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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The ENTIRE Bible is the Word (jesus christ) of God. You post suggests you are wresting scriptures unto your own destruction ( 2 Peter 3:16 kjv) . You are subtracting great swathes from the Word of God to satisfy your "religion"

Paul was led by God The Holy Spirit the same as ALL the other prophets and disciples were . To ignore any verse is to ignore GOD . Please adjust your learning accordingly - for your sake .
Uh, OK, just what great swatches of scripture have I subtracted?

Are you suggesting that we should interpret the teachings of Christ by the Apostle Paul's writings? No thanks, I'll interpret Paul's writings by the clear teaching of Christ Himself.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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So God changed? Well that is not Biblical and me and my friends will keep on believing that God can't change...

I am not here to be conflictive but if you don't understand why Yeshua came then the Old and New Covenant will not make sense. God never changed but it is our understanding that is not always in line with His word.
It is clear by Jesus' exhortations to the Pharisees that Jesus' mission, that needed to be completed, was for us to realize it had everything to do with building a new temple not made with hands, but by Himself. Those ordinances have been given to abolished in his flesh the enmity/division through Christ.

Matthew 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

Hebrews 9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.

The law of love, defined in the Old Testament, including curses and blessings, via Moses, applies to all people to this present day.

Hebrews 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

So putting these 2 verses together as written in Hebrews, 9:1 coming directly after 8:13, we read in context; "In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. It is obvious then what has been abolished.

Put this together with Ephesians 2:15 that says "Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;" and also in context the words of Christ Jesus in John 2:18-21 "Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?But he spake of the temple of his body."

Last but not least, we have received the blessings, through faith, given to us by the finished/completed mission of Christ Jesus our Lord.

What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? (1 Corinthians 6:19)
 
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Grandpa

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Jun 24, 2011
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So God changed? Well that is not Biblical and me and my friends will keep on believing that God can't change...

I am not here to be conflictive but if you don't understand why Yeshua came then the Old and New Covenant will not make sense. God never changed but it is our understanding that is not always in line with His word.
Well I agree. How come you don't understand?

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Galatians 3:10-12
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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And glory to God for Paul's letters but the problem is that people are starting with Paul and not Yeshua. Yeshua is the King and Paul the servant (just like us) so we should start with the King and move on to the servant... and like Brother Don said Yeshua is in every book of the Bible from Genesis to Revelation. If we can't find Him there we should keep on reading until we understand that and then start to investigate the teachings of His students.
Start to investigate the teachings of His students? What a terrifically sad thing to say.

What teachings are from the Lord and what is from His "students"?

Are the books written by Moses teachings of the Lord but all others are His "students"?
Are the books written by the Prophets teachings of the Lord but all others are His "students"?

How were you able to identify the teachings of the Lord and the teachings of His "students"?

Never mind. This is too ridiculous to even discuss.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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Originally Posted by GandalfTheWhite

So God changed? Well that is not Biblical and me and my friends will keep on believing that God can't change...

I am not here to be conflictive but if you don't understand why Yeshua came then the Old and New Covenant will not make sense. God never changed but it is our understanding that is not always in line with His word.


Well I agree. How come you don't understand?

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Galatians 3:10-12
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
I agree with both of you in part. Where we need to be careful in order to minister the truth is to define our explanations clearly enough to see that even though God's word has not changed, His Gospel then is to change us. What has happened in the church, because of this lack of clarity, is that doctrines changed to fit our understanding and comfort zone, indicating by our language that God changed His approach that leads to the finishing of His plan. That is not true because we seem to miss the truth that His process of events (first things first) still applies in detail in order to achieve the perfect end, not the abolishing or negation of anything. If we are led by the Spirit we will understand, as King David, that faith in God's Word was also the key in the Old Testament. Faith in God, and God's grace didn't all of a sudden appear with the New Covenant for in the Old Testament Habakkuk says the just shall live by faith. It is clear that those that say they are led by the Holy Spirit and cannot grasp this truth are bearing false witness and taking the Lord's name in vain.
 
Jan 25, 2015
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Start to investigate the teachings of His students? What a terrifically sad thing to say.

What teachings are from the Lord and what is from His "students"?

Are the books written by Moses teachings of the Lord but all others are His "students"?
Are the books written by the Prophets teachings of the Lord but all others are His "students"?

How were you able to identify the teachings of the Lord and the teachings of His "students"?

Never mind. This is too ridiculous to even discuss.
I said that Yeshua is in the Bible from Genesis to Revelation. All of the books of the Bible is God inspired and I never claimed otherwise.

What I find amusing is how you try to turn everything into your own twisted words and then try to argue about it.
 
Feb 7, 2013
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It is clear by Jesus' exhortations to the Pharisees that Jesus' mission, that needed to be completed, was for us to realize it had everything to do with building a new temple not made with hands, but by Himself. Those ordinances have been given to abolished in his flesh the enmity/division through Christ.

Matthew 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

Hebrews 9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.

The law of love, defined in the Old Testament, including curses and blessings, via Moses, applies to all people to this present day.

Hebrews 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

So putting these 2 verses together as written in Hebrews, 9:1 coming directly after 8:13, we read in context; "In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. It is obvious then what has been abolished.

Put this together with Ephesians 2:15 that says "Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;" and also in context the words of Christ Jesus in John 2:18-21 "Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?But he spake of the temple of his body."

Last but not least, we have received the blessings, through faith, given to us by the finished/completed mission of Christ Jesus our Lord.

What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? (1 Corinthians 6:19)
Brother, these are 'excellent' from the HOLY SPIRIT, who have 'taught' you well than me, not to be 'elated', but 'humbled' all of us must 'learn', what has been 'established', for us all who 'believe' and 'practice' and 'abide', according to the 'words/teachings' of LORD JESUS CHRIST, for GOD of the New Covenant.

Please in 'humble' and 'humility' towards others who are 'weak' in them.
 
Feb 7, 2013
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Brother, these are 'excellent' from the HOLY SPIRIT, who have 'taught' you well than me, not to be 'elated', but 'humbled' all of us must 'learn', what has been 'established', for us all who 'believe' and 'practice' and 'abide', according to the 'words/teachings' of LORD JESUS CHRIST, for GOD of the New Covenant.

Please in 'humble' and 'humility' towards others who are 'weak' in them.
And also in 'reference' to the 'Old', not forgetting, by also the 'Help' of the HOLY SPIRIT.
 
Feb 7, 2013
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Please do not 'oppose' these 'testimony' of dearly beloved 'GrandalfTheWhite' of the HOLY SPIRIT, for 'he' is for us and not against us.

We need to come to 'spiritual understanding' of the 'All' written Scripture, in order to 'forsake self' and 'move' forward in all of them in 'practice' and 'abiding' to 'honor' the LORD JESUS CHRIST and 'these' pleases the 'Living GOD', who have made 'CHRIST' God, over all of us and the 'world'.

If we are 'weak' due to the 'flesh/carnality', please make 'peace' with the LORD JESUS CHRIST, to make them 'part' of our 'given lives', in order to make them 'right' in our 'given lives' and 'witnessing Grace and Truth' to others and be 'fruitful' and our 'fruit' should 'abide'. as we 'abide'.

Thank you and GOD bless you all in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST, because 'they' are also 'all written', as 'spirit' and 'life' of LORD JESUS CHRIST for all 'believers'.

What we 'testify' is from the the 'words/teachings' of the 'HOLY SPIRIT' for CHRIST, even 'today'.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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Brother, these are 'excellent' from the HOLY SPIRIT, who have 'taught' you well than me, not to be 'elated', but 'humbled' all of us must 'learn', what has been 'established', for us all who 'believe' and 'practice' and 'abide', according to the 'words/teachings' of LORD JESUS CHRIST, for GOD of the New Covenant.

Please in 'humble' and 'humility' towards others who are 'weak' in them.
I appreciate the encouragement you have given. It is clear to me that any abolishment is the fleshly and physical temple made with hands, replaced by Christ as a spiritual body and a spiritual temple made without hands. The principles in the law which were given to us as His own remain the same and are applicable today in Spirit (not in the flesh) for all of God's children, even those who are grafted into the rooted olive tree which is the kingdom of God.

"The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law." (Deuteronomy 29:29)

"For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him." (Romans 10:12)
 
Dec 9, 2011
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This is in my opinion the correct interpretation on those scriptures in Matthew 5:17-19

Matthew 5:17-19
king james version

17.)Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18.)For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19.)Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


The law is GODs perfect standard of righteousness and man would have to fulfill the law perfectly before GOD would see them righteous and no man could fulfill the law perfectly,but JESUS whom was born under the law and JESUS was also 100% man and 100% GOD fulfilled the law perfectly and he graced it back to man before he left

BUT the only way anyone can receive this right standing before GOD was/is by FAITH in GOD and under the law there were some who had faith in GOD but remember they were under law so when they died they were held in captivity until JESUS brought in the NEW covenant.

As far as the least and the greatest in heaven
The least is talking about the old covenant
The greatest is talking about the new covenant.

Luke 7:28
king james version

28.) For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Uh, OK, just what great swatches of scripture have I subtracted?

Are you suggesting that we should interpret the teachings of Christ by the Apostle Paul's writings?
No thanks, I'll interpret Paul's writings by the clear teaching of Christ Himself
.
Those who set the NT against itself show their understanding of Scripture is incorrect.
 

prove-all

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May 16, 2014
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The True and the False Church

“And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom …” (Matthew 4:23).

“As he spake these words, many believed on him. Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word [His message], then are ye my disciples indeed .… 

When Jesus was born in Bethlehem, Satan was still here on Earth as the god of this world (2 Corinthians 4:4).
He is also the “prince of the power of the air” today (Ephesians 2:2), holding sway over the whole of mankind.

ut ye seek to kill me, because my word [His gospel message] hath no place in you. … But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God .… [F]or I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. … And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. … And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?”

But Satan connived to set up a powerful Gentile religious leader with a counterfeit religion—the ancient Babylonian mystery religion. He hatched a counterfeit “gospel.” He even appropriated the name of Christ, calling that religion “Christianity.”

In Samaria, north of Jerusalem, lived a Gentile people whom the Jews of Christ’s day spurned, calling them “dogs.” They had been moved there from areas of the Babylonian Empire about 700 b.c. by various kings, including Shalmaneser of Assyria (2 Kings 17:18, 21-24, etc.). They had brought with them into the land of Samaria their own Babylonian mystery religion. In the eighth chapter of Acts you’ll read of their religious leader in the time of Christ, Simon Magus the Sorcerer.

In the book of Revelation are pictured two churches, each of which go under the name of Christ. One, pictured in the 12th chapter, portrays the true Church of God, small in number, reduced through persecution and martyrdom, but obedient to God’s law, and hated by Satan. The other, in the 17th chapter, called “Mystery, Babylon the Great, the Mother of Harlots and Abominations of the Earth” (verse 5). In other words, the Babylonian mystery religion steeped in “iniquity”—abolishing God’s law.

During the time of Paul’s ministry, these same Simon Magus ministers were troubling the Corinthians. Paul wrote to the Corinthians: “I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ [the true Church, in the resurrection, is to be married to Christ, spiritually].

But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he [a minister of Simon Magus] that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit [of rebellion and disobedience], which ye have not received, or another gospel …” (2 Corinthians 11:2-4).

But notice, they were proclaiming another Jesus—as well as another gospel—and they followed another spirit—of rebellion and not obedience. That deception has continued through the centuries and is the state today. They took the name of Christ. They called their Babylonian religion “Christianity.” But they not only presented a counterfeit gospel but a counterfeit spirit of self-centeredness and a counterfeit Jesus, completely different to the Jesus of the Bible.

Of these false ministers, Paul wrote further to the Corinthians: “For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness …” (verses 13-15).

Peter wrote of these deceivers: “But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies .… And many shall follow their pernicious ways;

by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you …” (2 Peter 2:1-3).

John wrote of these same perverters of the true gospel, denying obedience to the way of God. “He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him” (1 John 2:4). “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us 

Jude warned us that we should “earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness [license to disobey] .… Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion [government], and speak evil of dignities. … Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

Almighty God has decreed that “this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world
for a witness unto all nations …” (verse 14)

“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel .…” What gospel? “… the gospel of the kingdom of God .…” That is the gospel Christ proclaimed. The message He brought was the message about the Kingdom of God.

Jesus came into Galilee “preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God” and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
Jesus said, “I must preach the kingdom of God to other cities also: for therefore am I sent” (Luke 4:43).

Jesus commissioned His disciples to teach the Kingdom of God. “Then he called his twelve disciples together, and … he sent them to preach the kingdom of God …” (Luke 9:1-2).

“But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women” (Acts 8:12).


Jesus’s parables concerned the Kingdom of God.

Again, “Then said he [Jesus], Unto what is the kingdom of God like? and whereunto shall I resemble it?” (Luke 13:18)—and then came a parable.

“And again he said, Whereunto shall I liken the kingdom of God? It is like leaven …”—and then follows the parable of the leaven (verses 20-21).

One of His most important parables is recorded in the 19th chapter of Luke: “… he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear” (Luke 19:11).

Then He gave the parable of the nobleman going to a far country to receive for himself a kingdom and to return—the picture of Christ’s ascension to heaven, where the coronation ceremony shall take place, and His return to Earth to rule all nations, as King of kings and Lord of lords, in all the supreme power and glory of the great God.

Notice, just before Jesus ascended into heaven. Luke had previously recorded what Jesus had done and said “ntil the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy [Spirit] had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen: To whom also he showed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God” (Acts 1:2-3).

after His resurrection Christ was speaking to His disciples about “the things pertaining to the kingdom of God.”
 
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prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

It is like leaven, which a woman[church] took and hid in three measures of meal,
till the whole was leavened.

Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread,
but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened.
For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

Therefore let us [keep] the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness;
but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

And there assembled at Jerusalem much people to keep the feast of unleavened bread in the second month,a very great congregation.


The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep. Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, as I commanded thee, in the time of the month Abib: for in the month Abib thou camest out from Egypt.